Program Building vs Winning Programs

#51
#51
MedicT said:
It wouldn't be a problem if you were willing to look at information that did not support your agenda. That inherent bias tends to make your methods invalid.
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ding...ding...ding...trade Oregon and Oklahoma for Central State Tech for the Left Handed and Jones is a .500 coach much like the majority of coaches people keep throwing in here
 
#52
#52
The Tall Gguy said:
I for one am sick of people calling our fanbase "dumb". People are just sick and tired of the same old crap every year. Is Butch going to turn it around? Who knows. I hope so, but being called a dumb fanbase for wanting to compete and win? The name caller is the one sounding dumb. If our fans becomes like a South Carolina or Vanderbilt fanbase (satisfied with mediocrity) this will not be Tennessee anymore.
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Your type of fan base is no benefit to Tenn either. Let see to them we are by darn Tenn. If we field 11 players we should win them all.
 
#53
#53
If you think Butch is in way over his head then we obviously should have hired someone who knows better...like you. Get on the field, lets see what you got, because if you know so much more I promise you, you will be hired as coach...QB what ever you are better AT. If I was Butch I would make sure Worley got first snaps just to piss some of you off, but he is a better man than I. He doesn't give a hoot what you message board fantasy owner basement dwellers say or care about. Thank the lord. We hired the right guy. Just come back in a year or two when the whole thing is put together and start playing your fantasy qb. Dobbs needed that moment against bam a. That was his moment. He needed that environment to step up. I'm happy for him, he took control and gave it his all. Doesn't mean it will happen again, doesn't mean he is the right guy for this week. I'm fine with burning his redshirt, wish it hadn't had happened, but we needed two qb's available going into that game and we didn't have them. Nothing more to it than that. This isn't playstation kids.
 
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#54
#54
MedicT said:
It wouldn't be a problem if you were willing to look at information that did not support your agenda. That inherent bias tends to make your methods invalid.
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Yeah, I'm the one with an inherent bias, not the guys who maintain that Butch took over the worst team imaginable (despite W/L records saying otherwise), without any talent (despite all recruiting services saying otherwise), and shouldn't have been expected to beat Vanderbilt in 2013 or Florida in 2014 (despite Vegas saying otherwise). Maybe you should look up what the word "bias" means.
 
#55
#55
MedicT said:
Friend, I don't know your level of education but I will assume it is such that you should have learned better critical thinking skills. Too bad.
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You can't judge by level of edumacation
I've got a masters from our beloved University and I say dumb stuff all the time
 
#56
#56
oregonvol said:
Yeah, I'm the one with an inherent bias, not the guys who maintain that Butch took over the worst team imaginable (despite W/L records saying otherwise), without any talent (despite all recruiting services saying otherwise), and shouldn't have been expected to beat Vanderbilt in 2013 or Florida in 2014 (despite Vegas saying otherwise). Maybe you should look up what the word "bias" means.
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You do understand that you can't look just look at a class ranking and not consider recruits who transferred, left the team, don't fit the system and many other factors. Kiffin's and Dooley's classes were depleted because of the lack of stability within the program. If Jones can't win with his classes then their is a problem.
 
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#57
#57
oregonvol said:
Yeah, I'm the one with an inherent bias, not the guys who maintain that Butch took over the worst team imaginable (despite W/L records saying otherwise), without any talent (despite all recruiting services saying otherwise), and shouldn't have been expected to beat Vanderbilt in 2013 or Florida in 2014 (despite Vegas saying otherwise). Maybe you should look up what the word "bias" means.
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I could be wrong but didn't vegas set the line with UF as 3 point favorites and betting moved it?
 
#58
#58
MaxamusXIII said:
You can't judge by level of edumacation
I've got a masters from our beloved University and I say dumb stuff all the time
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Oh, I really do not care what anyone's level of book learnin' might be.:) It simply drives me ape crackers when someone picks and chooses data to match their agenda and tries to pass their opinion as an objective analysis.

My apologies to anyone my education reference might have offended.
 
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#60
#60
RockyTopFalconFan said:
You do understand that you can't look just look at a class ranking and not consider recruits who transferred, left the team, don't fit the system and many other factors. Kiffin's and Dooley's classes were depleted because of the lack of stability within the program. If Jones can't win with his classes then their is a problem.
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I didn't just look at class rankings (and everyone has attrition). Did you know that Butch Jones started 13 4-star recruits against Vanderbilt in 2013? Did you know that James Franklin started 1?
 
#61
#61
IluvdoubleD's said:
If you think Butch is in way over his head then we obviously should have hired someone who knows better...like you. Get on the field, lets see what you got, because if you know so much more I promise you, you will be hired as coach...QB what ever you are better AT. If I was Butch I would make sure Worley got first snaps just to piss some of you off, but he is a better man than I. He doesn't give a hoot what you message board fantasy owner basement dwellers say or care about. Thank the lord. We hired the right guy. Just come back in a year or two when the whole thing is put together and start playing your fantasy qb. Dobbs needed that moment against bam a. That was his moment. He needed that environment to step up. I'm happy for him, he took control and gave it his all. Doesn't mean it will happen again, doesn't mean he is the right guy for this week. I'm fine with burning his redshirt, wish it hadn't had happened, but we needed two qb's available going into that game and we didn't have them. Nothing more to it than that. This isn't playstation kids.
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Man, what are you still doing here?

IluvdoubleD's said:
I am so done with the T. You people are the worst. Yet another classy individual done in by punks. What a bunch of veruca salts. You will never be winners, only whiners. Dooley is going to come back into this statium and ruin your season for seasons to come with a better fan base behind him. I will be with them. Good bye VOLUNTEERS. It was the best of times, @ one time.
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#63
#63
Dougie_D said:
Tennessee isn't a program you build. It's already built. You just need to figure out how to have a winning program.

I don't want to hear a single phrase referring to our program needing to be re-built. Majority of SEC teams are not even in that category. Tennessee just needs to start winning to save these coaches jobs.

If Tennessee wants to feel like we are re-building than we need to be patient....but we really shouldn't.

Please stop comparing any coaches to a school that needed to be re-built. There's nothing to compare.

Compare CBJ to when

- Urban Meyers took the Florida job.
- Rich Rod took the Michigan job
- Urban Meyers took the Ohio St job
- Kiffin took the USC job
- Saban took the Bama job
- Les Miles took the LSU job
- Jimbo fisher took over the FL St. job
- Bo Pelini took the Nebraska job
- O'Brien took the Penn St. job
- Petrino took the Arkansas job

Butch Jones and Bret Bielema are probably the most comparable coaches.

Both in their second years.

Both are at an SEC Powerhouse.

So far, they both have extremely similar overall records in the SEC (7-13) and (8-12)

It will be interesting which coach ends up with the better record this year. They might be BOTH on the hot seat next year.
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program needs to be rebuilt
 
#64
#64
oregonvol said:
I didn't just look at class rankings (and everyone has attrition). Did you know that Butch Jones started 13 4-star recruits against Vanderbilt in 2013? Did you know that James Franklin started 1?
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Yea, I remember the commentators stated that a few times during the game. I also, remember Tennessee started a 3 or maybe 4 star true freshman QB (2nd or 3rd start) that passed for 50 or 60 yards and threw 2 interceptions. Vandy started a senior QB with a lot of experience. I believe 2 or 3 of those 4 stars were freshmen playing against 3 star junior and seniors. So, I think Tennessee should have won, but you twisting the facts to make it sound like a huge blown opportunity by Jones. He might have been favored but not by much.
 
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#65
#65
Dougie_D said:
Tennessee isn't a program you build. It's already built. You just need to figure out how to have a winning program.

I don't want to hear a single phrase referring to our program needing to be re-built. Majority of SEC teams are not even in that category. Tennessee just needs to start winning to save these coaches jobs.

If Tennessee wants to feel like we are re-building than we need to be patient....but we really shouldn't.

Please stop comparing any coaches to a school that needed to be re-built. There's nothing to compare.

Compare CBJ to when

- Urban Meyers took the Florida job.
- Rich Rod took the Michigan job
- Urban Meyers took the Ohio St job
- Kiffin took the USC job
- Saban took the Bama job
- Les Miles took the LSU job
- Jimbo fisher took over the FL St. job
- Bo Pelini took the Nebraska job
- O'Brien took the Penn St. job
- Petrino took the Arkansas job

Butch Jones and Bret Bielema are probably the most comparable coaches.

Both in their second years.

Both are at an SEC Powerhouse.

So far, they both have extremely similar overall records in the SEC (7-13) and (8-12)

It will be interesting which coach ends up with the better record this year. They might be BOTH on the hot seat next year.
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I get what you're saying I think but it's semantics.

If you don't like the terminology and the splitting of hairs on wording, this probably isn't a good place to visit.

Tennessee was a national brand and had great facilities well before Butch Jones arrived.

The infrastructure has been in place for a winning program, the execution has just sorely been lacking in recent seasons.

When you say rebuild, I think of Jim Leavitt at South Florida or Snider at K State.

Jones is trying to get the program back on track, not lay the track for the program.
 
#66
#66
RockyTopFalconFan said:
Yea, I remember the commentators stated that a few times during the game. I also, remember Tennessee started a 3 or maybe 4 star true freshman QB (2nd or 3rd start) that passed for 50 or 60 yards and threw 2 interceptions. Vandy started a senior QB with a lot of experience. I believe 2 or 3 of those 4 stars were freshmen playing against 3 star junior and seniors. So, I think Tennessee should have won, but you twisting the facts to make it sound like a huge blown opportunity by Jones. He might have been favored but not by much.
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We had lots of seniors playing in that game. And it was a huge blown opportunity.

If your position is that your coach can only beat a team that is starting 12 less 4-star recruits, only if he also has experience at every position and no injuries, then chances are, your coach is terrible.
 
#67
#67
It's weird how much stronger the negativity has gotten in just 2 weeks

I guess a lot more people thought we should have beaten the #3 and 4
teams in the country, than I would have imagined.

That's all that has really changed in two weeks correct?
 
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#68
#68
Wow! some posters are just searching for the most insignificant points to just post or just re-post thoughts, opinions, dillusions etc. from previous post.

CBJ is the man...............period! if he were to leave.......the fallout would be beyond anything I could think of........yes worse than Dooley and Kiffen's mushroom cloud.

UT is on the right track and if you can't see that.......not much anyone can say or post to convince you otherwise. IF you're the kind of person who lives in the past, more than likey, I am wasting my time with you.........so, I will just.....................
 
#70
#70
oregonvol said:
We had lots of seniors playing in that game. And it was a huge blown opportunity.

If your position is that your coach can only beat a team that is starting 12 less 4-star recruits, only if he also has experience at every position and no injuries, then chances are, your coach is terrible.
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You western hippies must have some really good weed out there.....
 
#72
#72
oregonvol said:
We had lots of seniors playing in that game. And it was a huge blown opportunity.

If your position is that your coach can only beat a team that is starting 12 less 4-star recruits, only if he also has experience at every position and no injuries, then chances are, your coach is terrible.
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If you have watched college football then you understand not all recruits make their potential. Sometimes a three star turns out to be better than four and five stars. For example, Cameron Sutton is an excellent CB. I would take him over many four and five start CB.

When Tennessee took on Vandy last year Franklin had developed his recruits. There is a slight possibility (sarcasm) that Dooley didn't develop his players to their full potential. An offensive line with NFL caliber players underachieved and I think that is because they weren't developed to their full potential. Remember Jones only had one off-season and one season with them.

I believe last years team would have been better if Jones had developed those players for 4 years not to mention other recruits we might have had.

Were Franklin's players coached better last year. Yes, but a lot of that is on Dooley and the development of the players he recruited.

Jones recruits much better than Dooley. It is yet to be seen how well he will develop players at UT, but I think we have seen improvements in players from last year to this year. Even A.J. Johnson is better than he was last year.

Give Jones a chance. I think he has what it takes.
 
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#73
#73
YorkVol said:
The rules of the board do not allow me to call you names so I won't. However, I will say that your logic is flawed. I also don't understand the need to start threads like these, other than to prove your typing skills.
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Prove or improve? :)
 
#74
#74
KingtUT said:
This thread would have more merit if you would have just said "I don't have a clue what I'm talking about" or maybe "I'm not bright enough to understand that UT is on its 4th coach in the past 7 years and there are no schools that have endured a similar situation so there is now way to compare one job to another, and also, I don't understand what attrition means, could somebody help me?" Any of that would've been a drastic improvement from the crap you just posted. Your welcome.

On a side note....who in the Sam hell "liked" that post?
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Vanderbilt has actually had 4 coaches in the last 6 years and if Mason does not right the ship then we will have 5 coaches in the last 8 years if he can't grab a few SEC wins over the remaining year and next. As much as you don't care to hear it, Vanderbilt and UT are in a fairly similar situation with all the turnover and the youthful rosters. I expect a 9-6 nail biter in Nashville with our MVPs for both teams being the kickers and both of us sitting at home for the holidays.
 
#75
#75
chargervol said:
It's weird how much stronger the negativity has gotten in just 2 weeks

I guess a lot more people thought we should have beaten the #3 and 4
teams in the country, than I would have imagined.

That's all that has really changed in two weeks correct?
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low grumbling started when we didn't beat USU and ASU by 50+....then grew into a crescendo after the UF game...last 2 weeks only adds fuel to amplify the game time mistakes and the what coulda/shoulda beens
 
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