Peyton V Brady (post-Wells report)

#51
#51
At this point Brady is in same boat as A-Rod - asterisk attached to all his accomplishments regardless of how much this sucks for his fans. However Peyton was already a GOAT even without Brady cheating because his overall stats dwarf Brady's SB's (which most of the credit for should go to Belichick anyway).
 
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#52
#52
Like some others have said... I Really think for the masses to say PM is best of all time, He needs 1 more SB ring..

In my mind, he is the GOAT by a landslide. If he had the teams and coach that Brady has been lucky enough to have.. He would have at least 2 more SB then the PATS do now.. There are two post-seasons I can think of off the top of my head alone that the PATS would have went all the way if they had PM at the helm..

But that is all conjecture.. so I digress

#GBO
 
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#53
#53
Boca Vol said:
This is the root issue at hand. The only people I see popping corks and pointing fingers over this are UT/Manning fans, Jets fans, and Bills fans. Wonder why?
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I agree that only football fans are interested and that only non-Patriots fans think it's a big deal. I think that's an obvious point. It doesn't change the fact that the Pats have a long record of cheating, going all the way back to the snowplow game.
 
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#54
#54
HoptownVol said:
The league is all about drama now. Have you been living in a closet for the last 3 years? There is nothing here
to see, and you cant find me anything in that report (that you havent read) that implicates Brady whatsoever.
Sorry beast, go back it up, and deliver it here. Thanks.
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Yeah I read the report and it is obvious to me that the balls were deflated by patriot personnel....if u honestly believe that Brady had no part in that then u r a fool. They have probably been doing it in every game since 2007 and finally got busted...it's not poor Tom Brady bc he will be fine....it's poor patriot personnel that lost their jobs over this.
 
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#55
#55
Boca Vol said:
This is the root issue at hand. The only people I see popping corks and pointing fingers over this are UT/Manning fans, Jets fans, and Bills fans. Wonder why?
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I'm sure there is some truth to that, but that's not the case with me. I "had" the utmost respect for Brady and his game. He is simply a stud and a winner. The debate between him and Manning will never be resolved, they are both great quarterbacks and will both be in the HOF.

The issue at hand is knowingly breaking the rules. Belichick has always pushed the envelope with the rules and does everything he can to get a competitive advantage and has created that environment in the Patriots organization. There isn't hard evidence Brady directed them to deflate the balls, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence. If the balls were purposely deflated, and I believe there is evidence proving that, then I think everyone would admit nobody would have done that without Brady's approval. There isn't a single Pats employee that would do anything like that without Brady's blessing.

To me the issue isn't the effect the balls had on the game - the Pats would have won that game regardless of the pressure in the ball, but it's knowingly breaking the rules and not admitting it and the lack of integrity.

Brady should admit he made a mistake and move on. And his agent needs to shut up.
 
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#56
#56
I love Manning but have to concede screwy balls or no, Brady seems to be a better gamer than Manning (at least in the playoffs).

Brady seems to handle it better when things don't go his way, Peyton has trouble when the game plan is not working and the Broncos/Colts didn't seem to adjust as well in the second halves of games.

Some of that is the team around them (the Broncos have not done Peyton any favors with their lack of effort and execution).
 
#57
#57
ACvol3 said:
Lol right... Brady could've thrown watermelons and beat the colts. And who is to say manning hasn't done something like this? I wouldn't care if he did. I'm more pissed at that being a rule.. It's ridiculous.

I'm as big of a manning fan as anyone but your last sentence is so ridiculous unless u are close to both of them on a personal level.

I promise u that Peyton is human too.
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Do you think this is the only game the Patriots did this? Look at Brady's stats since the rule change and how much his stats improved. Also, the Patriots fumble less then any team in the league during that.....This seems like a pretty big coincidence to me.
 
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#59
#59
djwes said:
I love Manning but have to concede screwy balls or no, Brady seems to be a better gamer than Manning (at least in the playoffs).

Brady seems to handle it better when things don't go his way, Peyton has trouble when the game plan is not working and the Broncos/Colts didn't seem to adjust as well in the second halves of games.

Some of that is the team around them (the Broncos have not done Peyton any favors with their lack of effort of execution).
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Alot of that has to do with the teams around them....If Peyton Makes a couple of mistakes then his team loses....If Brady does the same, they are still in the game....One of Tom's superbowls, he only threw for 134 yds and still won.
 
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#60
#60
Boca Vol said:
That was my point early on. There are 2-3 officials that touch the balls between plays. They couldn't tell the Pats balls were different?
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That makes sense logically but then again the refs aren't gripping the balls the same way a QB or WR would. Maybe they couldn't tell by casual handling. They were inspected before the game so they probably aren't squeezing them between plays to see if they had been tampered with.... Well they might now.
 
#61
#61
ACvol3 said:
Is it really that big of a deal? I think the rule is stupid.

U bring your footballs the way u want them, we bring our footballs the way we want them.. That's how it should be imo.
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Not exactly. A 10 psi ball is super easy to grip and catch, while a 12/13 psi ball makes a world of difference. Now, you get the opposite effect with kicking, as an overinflated ball is a huge advantage.

In the end, it was against the rules, whether you agree with it or not, and it isn't the first time the Patriots have been caught trying to gain an unfair advantage. Frankly, if they don't agree with the rule, try to get it changed, but they, secretly and knowingly, broke the rule, and did so as far back as before the 2014 season. The bigger issue is they(Brady in particular) didn't cooperate with the investigation(he refused to turn over relevant emails and texts). For that, I think Brady should lose more than 4 games without pay.
 
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#62
#62
For one, all of this is of course biased because we are on Volnation, so what would you expect?

Secondly, I'm kind of surprised there's Brady defenders on here, maybe he shouldn't be singled out but there should be some fine/suspension for someone. If you get caught cheating once regardless of the circumstances, by all means keep on cheating? I don't quite understand this logic.....

Third, if Butch, with all this talent this year and currently looking to return UT to the glory days, started commiting cheating offenses and then a 3rd, and 4th and got UT in trouble even during games we would win without cheating. I am pretty sure our fans would be highly upset at Butch, why protect Brady and Bchek.
 
#63
#63
Until now, the NFL has hardly cared about the footballs. Here are some examples:

Last season, the Carolina Panthers and Minnesota Vikings were caught, on a cold day, using sideline heaters to warm up footballs. That's against the rules. The Panthers and Vikings were ... warned. That's it.

In 2012 the San Diego Chargers used towels with an adhesive substance on their game balls and didn't give them up to the NFL immediately when ordered to do so. And the Chargers' punishment? A $20,000 fine. That's it.

If you took this exact same report and replaced Brady with Manning, this site would melt down.
 
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#64
#64
Boca Vol said:
Until now, the NFL has hardly cared about the footballs. Here are some examples:

Last season, the Carolina Panthers and Minnesota Vikings were caught, on a cold day, using sideline heaters to warm up footballs. That's against the rules. The Panthers and Vikings were ... warned. That's it.

In 2012 the San Diego Chargers used towels with an adhesive substance on their game balls and didn't give them up to the NFL immediately when ordered to do so. And the Chargers' punishment? A $20,000 fine. That's it.

If you took this exact same report and replaced Brady with Manning, this site would melt down.
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The Panthers and Vikings acknowledged wrong doing, and moved on. The Chargers weren't actually breaking a rule, they were using unapproved products, and they got the fine for not immediately handing them over to the officials. The NFL made a new rule, no sticky towels.

In the Patriots case, they knowingly took the balls into a bathroom, out of view of a camera, deflated them, then used them. Obviously breaking a rule, and went out of their way to do it. Then, when the NFL asked, they denied it happened, and refused to cooperate with the investigation. Brady should have just acknowledged wrong-doing and moved on, but he didn't.
 
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#65
#65
Boca Vol said:
Until now, the NFL has hardly cared about the footballs. Here are some examples:

Last season, the Carolina Panthers and Minnesota Vikings were caught, on a cold day, using sideline heaters to warm up footballs. That's against the rules. The Panthers and Vikings were ... warned. That's it.

In 2012 the San Diego Chargers used towels with an adhesive substance on their game balls and didn't give them up to the NFL immediately when ordered to do so. And the Chargers' punishment? A $20,000 fine. That's it.

If you took this exact same report and replaced Brady with Manning, this site would melt down.
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That's not entirely true.....they warned the entire league that no matter how cold the weather was that u r not allowed to warm the footballs and punishment would follow if anyone violated the rules. The Carolina ball boys were doing it on the sideline in plain view.....they weren't sneaking to a closet to deflate the footballs.

As for the San Diego issue....it was determined that Chargers did not use an adhesive substance on the footballs but was fined 20,000 dollars for not turning over the towels in a timely manner.

You are right though the Manning fans would be acting the same way the Brady fans are acting now if the roles were reversed.
 
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#66
#66
CMcEver said:
The Panthers and Vikings acknowledged wrong doing, and moved on. The Chargers weren't actually breaking a rule, they were using unapproved products, and they got the fine for not immediately handing them over to the officials. The NFL made a new rule, no sticky towels.

In the Patriots case, they knowingly took the balls into a bathroom, out of view of a camera, deflated them, then used them. Obviously breaking a rule, and went out of their way to do it. Then, when the NFL asked, they denied it happened, and refused to cooperate with the investigation. Brady should have just acknowledged wrong-doing and moved on, but he didn't.
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Exactly
 
#67
#67
CMcEver said:
The Panthers and Vikings acknowledged wrong doing, and moved on. The Chargers weren't actually breaking a rule, they were using unapproved products, and they got the fine for not immediately handing them over to the officials. The NFL made a new rule, no sticky towels.

In the Patriots case, they knowingly took the balls into a bathroom, out of view of a camera, deflated them, then used them. Obviously breaking a rule, and went out of their way to do it. Then, when the NFL asked, they denied it happened, and refused to cooperate with the investigation. Brady should have just acknowledged wrong-doing and moved on, but he didn't.
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They were using an unapproved substance but not breaking a rule? Why didn't they immediately hand the balls over? Probably because they were guilty of gaining an advantage. If there was no advantage gained, why was a new rule implemented?

The point is, this is nothing new. It's just the Patriots! That's why it's a big deal. If the Colts did this, no one would care.

You're correct, though, had the Pats admitted it there wouldn't be anywhere near the attention this has gotten.
 
#69
#69
Boca Vol said:
They were using an unapproved substance but not breaking a rule? Why didn't they immediately hand the balls over? Probably because they were guilty of gaining an advantage. If there was no advantage gained, why was a new rule implemented?

The point is, this is nothing new. It's just the Patriots! That's why it's a big deal. If the Colts did this, no one would care.

You're correct, though, had the Pats admitted it there wouldn't be anywhere near the attention this has gotten.
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The Chargers didn't immediately cooperate, or at least the equipment personnel didn't immediately hand over the towels to the game-day official, but they eventually did. They did do a 3 week investigation, and found that there was communication about those towels that showed the Chargers didn't purposely do anything wrong.
For the Patriots, they(really just Brady, the Patriots did cooperate some) went out of their way to hide it and then denied it. Honestly, had Brady admitted it, this wouldn't even be as big of a deal. My point is, they broke the rules, you can't defend them or anyone, especially when they went to the extent they did to hide it and deny it.
 
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#70
#70
HoptownVol said:
The league is all about drama now. Have you been living in a closet for the last 3 years? There is nothing here
to see, and you cant find me anything in that report (that you havent read) that implicates Brady whatsoever.
Sorry beast, go back it up, and deliver it here. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I think we'd take you more seriously if you weren't such a bleeding homerphilliac...take a breath dude! We know you're hurting!
 
#71
#71
Boca Vol said:
This is the root issue at hand. The only people I see popping corks and pointing fingers over this are UT/Manning fans, Jets fans, and Bills fans. Wonder why?
Click to expand...

And conversely the primary complainants bleeding out of their dirty female front bottoms over this are whom? :yuck:
 
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#72
#72
CMcEver said:
The Chargers didn't immediately cooperate, or at least the equipment personnel didn't immediately hand over the towels to the game-day official, but they eventually did. They did do a 3 week investigation, and found that there was communication about those towels that showed the Chargers didn't purposely do anything wrong.
For the Patriots, they(really just Brady, the Patriots did cooperate some) went out of their way to hide it and then denied it. Honestly, had Brady admitted it, this wouldn't even be as big of a deal. My point is, they broke the rules, you can't defend them or anyone, especially when they went to the extent they did to hide it and deny it.
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I agree with you. The cover-up was "the crime" not the cheating itself.

The people that think the Pats are the only cheaters in the league are delusional. It's just when you get caught you need to admit it.
 
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#75
#75
peyton4heisman said:
The NFL suspended Tom Brady for the first four games of the 2015 season today after having the chance to digest the Wells report.

ESPN is having a field day with this story and Brady's legacy is already being questioned.

My question is this.. do you think PM will now be remembered as the better QB by the masses years down the road now that TB has been busted for cheating?

FWIW, I think so. Nobody will remember Barry Bonds or Mark McGuire as being better hitters than the Babe or Mickey Mantle.

IMO PM > TB. Now, hopefully, the rest of the world and history will agree!
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Peyton's character will help seal him as one of the best if not the best quarterbacks of all time. I guess the only difference in Bilachick & Calipari is that Calipari has figured out how to cheat without getting caught and Beilachick hasn't
 
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