Over Signing and the attrition that follows.

#26
#26
LebanonVolunteer said:
What I'm kind of pointing to is taking 3 QBs and 3RBs IMO are examples of UT setting itself up to continue seeing a lot of attrition going forward.
Click to expand...

If you haven't been keeping up, we don't have many QBs on the roster now with NP transferring.

Not worried about the RB situation.
 
#27
#27
butchna said:
We're down to one experienced scholarship QB and will have two available for the Orange and White game (Dormady sitting out)...Dobbs seems to have that rare ability of not taking full on hits but one freak landing and we're down to three true freshmen for the year ...that nowhere near an overglut...this reminds me of Peyton's sophomore year, after the NCAA denied Colquitt's medical redshirt and Stewart transferred...we were down to Jeremy Bates behind Manning...emergency QB was Benji Shuler iirc! Last year our RB situation was a hair trigger at times when Hurd was dinged up...Lane was never fully healthy and Scott didn't have it...we needed more options then but had to shoehorn Pickett in! We have to have all of these extra bodies and it's not just my opinion... It's Butch's...'s why he's recruiting them. Recruiting scared to try to be a Gerry Faust type of father/coach gets that level of success.
Click to expand...

Agree. We were a couple of offensive injuries away from total disaster last year. We need depth at QB and RB. Butch knows this and is fixing it.
 
#28
#28
LebanonVolunteer said:
Signee's lost since the 2013 class.

Brown
Ferguson
Carr
Harris
Lee
Paulk
Henderson
Helm
Scott

I know there is a group that's been talked about leaving, but not sure that it's final yet.(Hendrix, Payne, Wharton, Sawyers, Jenkins).

If there is any missing, just say the word.
Click to expand...

Honestly that's not too bad IMO.
 
#31
#31
I see the positive Leb from the Richmond thread is gone, and old Leb is back.
 
#32
#32
We're dealing with what elite programs deal with right now. Attrition is going to happen. It's going to happen with more players if you take bigger classes. It's going to happen even more if you have young players contributing earlier instead of redshirting. It's just human nature to question why you're not starting or playing major time when players around you that came in with the same recruiting class are. It's also much easier for freshmen to break away after the first season if they feel that way.

Enormous adjustment to the college environment, most kids are overwhelmed and not ready for everything that is thrown at them. Normally you get a class redshirt most of them, let them adjust to college, to the demands in the classroom and in the football program. They build ties to the school and to people in that school, friends, girlfriends, coaches, etc. It's a lot easier to be a contributer and wait your turn to be a star in that situation. If you have a class that is mostly starting early and some that aren't; well most kids at that age lack the maturity to handle it and those ties that I mentioned earlier aren't really made yet. Throw in the adversity of adjustment to the college environment and it's easy for some kids to leave or to get into off the field trouble. It's not rocket science it's human nature.
 
#33
#33
butchna said:
We're down to one experienced scholarship QB and will have two available for the Orange and White game (Dormady sitting out)...Dobbs seems to have that rare ability of not taking full on hits but one freak landing and we're down to three true freshmen for the year ...that nowhere near an overglut...this reminds me of Peyton's sophomore year, after the NCAA denied Colquitt's medical redshirt and Stewart transferred...we were down to Jeremy Bates behind Manning...emergency QB was Benji Shuler iirc! Last year our RB situation was a hair trigger at times when Hurd was dinged up...Lane was never fully healthy and Scott didn't have it...we needed more options then but had to shoehorn Pickett in! We have to have all of these extra bodies and it's not just my opinion... It's Butch's...'s why he's recruiting them. Recruiting scared to try to be a Gerry Faust type of father/coach gets that level of success.
Click to expand...

Why is Dormady sitting out of the OW game?
 
#36
#36
DeekT said:
Why is Dormady sitting out of the OW game?
Click to expand...

Probably shouldn't have been so definite about his shoulder situation...I think it's highly likely he sits the spring game out...he hasn't been throwing due to his injury.
 
#37
#37
EEs have changed the paradigm. Dormady and Jennings will fight it out for number 2, and you can figure Jones as being in the next class with Kendall. I would like to see us be more selective early on in the process, so that we don't have to ask commitments to look elsewhere or ask them to gray shirt.
 
#38
#38
ericpVOL4LIFE said:
That is true but it also gives us depth a back up in case of injury or if a kid cannot make the grades and a way better chance of getting a homerun. I say let the competition begin .
Click to expand...

We added three QBs this year and one stud on the way next year...we added four RBs this year ... two elite and also one transfer from UC who may be in the mix.

Persons who basically are gone are Peterman, Hendrix, Paulk, Henderson, Jenkins, Helm, Sawyers, Williams, Jones, Scott, Pickett either via transfer or dismissal/suspension. Wharton is on the fence.

All were recruited over ... so no problem...:hi:
 
#39
#39
TriedAndTrueVOL said:
To be 100% honest, I hope we have a lot of guys transferring every year. That means we have plenty of competition on the team and some guys just aren't willing to do the work. Attrition is gonna happen regardless, but I want the best of the best on the field. Others can find an easier spot elsewhere...not everyone is cut out for what is brewing in Knoxville.
Click to expand...

You can achieve some short-term gains this way but long-term, it's going to be counterproductive to building a consistently strong program. We can handle this attrition rate for a year or two, but a massive amount of turnover annually is not a good thing -- either in college football or in a company -- from a developmental perspective. It also makes it more difficult to inculcate and sustain a unified culture of "family," which is still one of the program's prime selling points.

If you're experiencing too much churn, I think you need to re-examine your ability to identify players with both talent and tenacity, and also possibly look at how you're defining/explaining the importance of their roles in the program. Otherwise, you're going to spend an inordinate amount of time every year trying to teach & develop guys who end up leaving in 1-2 years. It's rarely a positive to make that investment and get absolutely no return; there's an opportunity cost involved with every player who leaves early.

Also, depending on the circumstances surrounding their departures, you risk ending up with an increasing number of disillusioned, alienated guys who move on & are not good ambassadors for the program. Some of that can't be helped, of course, because not everyone has realistic expectations, but it's still something you want to minimize within reason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#40
#40
RiseToTheTop said:
Flipping the roster as fast as they can. Not really hard to understand. Doubt we keep doing it. Beat that dead horse!
Click to expand...

Exactly. Getting the stars in and the fluff out. After next year and another top five class the transfers will slow down considerably.

GO VOLS!
 
#41
#41
LebanonVolunteer said:
Signee's lost since the 2013 class.

Brown
Ferguson
Carr
Harris
Lee
Paulk
Henderson
Helm
Scott

I know there is a group that's been talked about leaving, but not sure that it's final yet.(Hendrix, Payne, Wharton, Sawyers, Jenkins).

If there is any missing, just say the word.
Click to expand...

Several of those were never going to play at UT. It's best that some of them left.
 
#42
#42
There should be a disclaimer with a thread started by Leb,

"Abandon All Hope Ye That Enter Here"

abandon-all-hope-ye-who-enter-here.jpg


blackbeer.gif
 
#43
#43
Here is the way I see it.

30
30
30
30
_______

120
- graduates
- those declaring for the draft
- transfers
____________

85 Scholarship limit
 
#44
#44
LebanonVolunteer said:
Had they not taken 2 QBs in 2013 with Worley and Peterman returning, they might have got 1 in 2014. Take 1 in 2014 and you don't need to take a silly number in 2015, especially with the clear starter returning in Dobbs. Had they got a RB in 2013, they would not have needed to take 3 in 2014. It's all about reasonable class numbers IMO. If you take a QB every year and maybe 2 every other year, you will be fine. Take 2RBs a year and you'll be fine. You will still have some attrition. Taking extras because you screwed up the year before does not help IMO. They just transfer and you wasted a spot you could have used on another position that might stick around long enough to benefit from it.
Click to expand...

If you want 4 qb's on the roster, who cares what class they are part of? Same for RB's or DB's.

Your argument just seems to suggest getting one or two quality players at each position and then backfill with average talent until they graduate.

good way to find yourself playing catch up IMO
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#45
#45
1orangews6 said:
As in the toilet bowl kind? :)

LOL just kidding. I got a chuckle when I read it. It was childish I know but I think it's a good thing not to take things to seriously all the time.
Click to expand...

I had just watched the movie booty call. The Pakistani store guy response just fit.
 
#46
#46
I think most "healthy" programs have about 15-20 scholarship Seniors a year that are graduating.

Lets look at our roster and what's left of certain classes

SRs-14
Mack Crowder - 2011 - 3*
Marcus Jackson - 2011 - 4*
Kyler Kerbyson - 2011 - 3*
Curt Maggitt - 2011 - 4*
Brian Randolph - 2011 - 3*
Trevarris Saulsberry - 2011 - 3*
LaDarrell McNeil - 2012 - 4*
Pig Howard - 2012 - 4*
Jonathon Johnson - 2013 - 3*
Von Pearson - 2014 - 4*
Chris Weathered - 2014 - 4*
Owen Williams - 2014 - 3*
Matt Giampapa - Walk On
Alex Ellis - Walk On

JRs-18
Danny O'Brien - 2012 - 4*
Jason Croom - 2012 - 4*
Latroy Lewis - 2012 - 3*
Kenny Bynum - 2012 - 3*
Justin King - 2012 - 3*
Cody Blanc - 2012 - 2*
George Bullock - 2012 - 2* ?????
Jalen Reeves Maybin - 2013 - 4*
Marquez North - 2013 - 4*
Josh Dobbs - 2013 - 4*
Devaun Swafford - 2013 - 3*
Malik Foreman - 2013 - 3*
Cam Sutton - 2013 - 3*
Dylan Weisman - 2013 - 3*
Corey Vereen - 2013 - 3*
Lemond Johnson - 2013 - 3* ???????
Dontavious Blair - 2014 - 4*
Joe Stocstill - Walk On (I think he is on Scholly)

SO's-22
AJ Branisiel - 2013 - 3*
Brett Kendrick - 2013 - 3*
Austin Sanders - 2013 - 4*
Kendal Vickers - 2013 - 3*
Josh Smith - 2013 - 3*
Jalen Hurd - 2014 - 5*
Josh Malone - 2014 - 5*
Derek Barnett - 2014 - 4*
Evan Berry - 2014 - 4*
Rashaan Gaulden - 2014 - 4*
Todd Kelly Jr - 2014 - 4*
Cortez McDowell - 2014 - 4*
Elliot Berry - 2014 - 3*
Jakob Johnson - 2014 - 3*
Ethan Wolf - 2014 - 3*
Jashaun Robertson - 2014 - 3*
Aaron Medley - 2014 - 3*
Charles Mosley - 2014 - 3*
Emmanuel Moseley - 2014 - 3*
Coleman Thomas - 2014 - 3*
Dimaraya Mixon - 2014 - 3*
Alvin Kamara - 2015 - 5*

Fr-13
Dillon Bates - 2014 - 4*
Gavin Bryant - 2014 - 3*
Neiko Creamer - 2014 - 3*
Ray Raulerson - 2014 - 3*
Kyle Phillips - 2015 - 5*
Darrin Kirkland Jr - 2015 - 4*
Quinten Dormandy - 2015 - 4*
Jack Jones - 2015 - 4*
Shy Tuttle - 2015 - 4*
Jauan Jennings - 2015 - 4*
Andrew Butcher - 2015 - 4*
Chance hall - 2015 - 3*
Stephen Griffin - 2015 - 3*
Currently set to add 20 more most likely

That gives us 67 currently (unless I left off anyone which I don't believe I did and don't have someone on there who doesn't have a scholly (Stocstill? Lemond Johnson still around?) That means two more off the list above will need to leave by time we kick off in August.

To me this attrition of the younger classes is great. We need to even out our scholarship distribution and we needed as many older veterans on the squad as we can get.

It looks like our current Sr. class is a bit light, but next years will likely be right in the 15-20 range you want. We should be set to always be in that range going forward and the roster will be "rebuilt" in my opinion fully by 2016 and is pretty dang close already.
 
#47
#47
kamoshika said:
You can achieve some short-term gains this way but long-term, it's going to be counterproductive to building a consistently strong program. We can handle this attrition rate for a year or two, but a massive amount of turnover annually is not a good thing -- either in college football or in a company -- from a developmental perspective. It also makes it more difficult to inculcate and sustain a unified culture of "family," which is still one of the program's prime selling points.

If you're experiencing too much churn, I think you need to re-examine your ability to identify players with both talent and tenacity, and also possibly look at how you're defining/explaining the importance of their roles in the program. Otherwise, you're going to spend an inordinate amount of time every year trying to teach & develop guys who end up leaving in 1-2 years. It's rarely a positive to make that investment and get absolutely no return; there's an opportunity cost involved with every player who leaves early.

Also, depending on the circumstances surrounding their departures, you risk ending up with an increasing number of disillusioned, alienated guys who move on & are not good ambassadors for the program. Some of that can't be helped, of course, because not everyone has realistic expectations, but it's still something you want to minimize within reason.
Click to expand...

Well said. Attrition will happen to some degree. You can't keep everyone happy all the time. For long term success, the revolving door, and "we'll just sign more" imo will end up failing long term.
 
#48
#48
Look at any signing day class over the last 30 years. After 4 years, there will be 2/3's left on average. You sign kids with the assumption that a third are going to be gone for whatever reason.

I like the 30, 30, 30, 30 to get to 85. It's basically 20, 20, 20, 20 and 5 walk ons that are granted scholarships along the way.

I'd be interested to know what the normal attrition rate for incoming freshmen at UT is after 1 and 2 years. Grades, home sick, $$$, whatever.
 
#50
#50
Guyute said:
If you want 4 qb's on the roster, who cares what class they are part of? Same for RB's or DB's.

Your argument just seems to suggest getting one or two quality players at each position and then backfill with average talent until they graduate.

good way to find yourself playing catch up IMO
Click to expand...

Why? Because unless you space those guys out roster wise, they won't be around long. If you take 4 at once then just say i'll take 4 more in 2-3 years you will have a constant disaster on your hands.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top