#OregonUnderAttack

#158
#158
It seems they're finding out what those pocket constitutions they liked to carry had written in them

Article 1 section 8 and 9.
 
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#160
#160
Updated from local sources

One dead, Bundys arrested after confrontation with FBI on highway | News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KATU

It all began with a traffic stop while Bundy and some of his followers were en route to a community meeting in John Day, about 70 miles away.

Shots were fired after FBI agents, Oregon State troopers and other law enforcement agencies made the stop.

One person, who was the subject of a federal probable cause arrest died. It's unclear who fired first.
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#163
#163
FBI/LE has now blocked all the roads going to the area. I wonder why the FBI decided to escalate last night?
 
#164
#164
Burhead said:
FBI/LE has now blocked all the roads going to the area. I wonder why the FBI decided to escalate last night?
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I think that during an arrest of a group including the Bundy's when they were travelling somewhere for something, the group put up resistance which resulted in one of them being killed.

After that things seem to have escalated. NPR report this morning about defacing of Native American sites near Pa Bundy's ranch seemed to be setting the scene for some sort of seizure or reprisal there as well.

Kind of a shame because I think the BUndy's and their group just really don't get the system and don't really intend to cause trouble.
 
#165
#165
Burhead said:
FBI/LE has now blocked all the roads going to the area. I wonder why the FBI decided to escalate last night?
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I want to see the footage of events leading up to the shooting. It may have been justified, but they need to release it just to put the public at ease. Otherwise, they might end up with guys that are itching for an excuse to get violent.
 
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#166
#166
There's a long history in America of using of civil disobedience to bring attention to political causes and agendas. IMO there's nothing wrong with that. If you demonstrate and break the law you go to jail for a day or two and pay a fine. It's a price you're willing to pay and your cause gets attention. If enough people agree with you change may come.

However when those idiots brought guns to the party the equation changed. It basically became an unlawful armed conflict. I'm sorry someone got killed but the blood is on the hands of the ranchers not the government.
 
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#167
#167
MT LeConte said:
There's a long history in America of using of civil disobedience to bring attention to political causes and agendas. IMO there's nothing wrong with that. If you demonstrate and break the law you go to jail for a day or two and pay a fine. It's a price you're willing to pay and your cause gets attention. If enough people agree with you change may come.

However when those idiots brought guns to the party the equation changed. It basically became an unlawful armed conflict. I'm sorry someone got killed but the blood is on the hands of the ranchers not the government.
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A 60 year old man running towards someone is not reason to shoot and kill. If he appeared to be armed, then that's different, otherwise it is murder. That's why all video recordings need to be released. If they don't release any, then they're hiding what actually happened.
 
#168
#168
davethevol said:
A 60 year old man running towards someone is not reason to shoot and kill. If he appeared to be armed, then that's different, otherwise it is murder. That's why all video recordings need to be released. If they don't release any, then they're hiding what actually happened.
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Where did you get your information that he was running towards someone? No details have been released.
 
#169
#169
MT LeConte said:
There's a long history in America of using of civil disobedience to bring attention to political causes and agendas. IMO there's nothing wrong with that. If you demonstrate and break the law you go to jail for a day or two and pay a fine. It's a price you're willing to pay and your cause gets attention. If enough people agree with you change may come.

However when those idiots brought guns to the party the equation changed. It basically became an unlawful armed conflict. I'm sorry someone got killed but the blood is on the hands of the ranchers not the government.
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I agree with the first paragraph but don't agree with the notion that if a gun is involved it automatically is no longer civil disobedience.

Also, until I have more facts about how this went down I'll reserve judgement on whether or not the government has blood on their hands.
 
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#171
#171
There's a claim the guy that was killed had his hands up. Where's the "hands up, don't shoot crowd" on this one?
 
#174
#174
volinbham said:
There's a claim the guy that was killed had his hands up. Where's the "hands up, don't shoot crowd" on this one?
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I was questioning the poster who stated the deceased was running towards the lawmen. Now you say he had his hands up. Where are you getting your information? Nothing has been released that I can find.
 
#175
#175
MT LeConte said:
I was questioning the poster who stated the deceased was running towards the lawmen. Now you say he had his hands up. Where are you getting your information? Nothing has been released that I can find.
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I said someone from the group claimed that (saw an interview on the news).

I wasn't saying he in fact did have his hands up.

My point was we don't know all the facts to so blame only the protestors is premature. They broke the law and set the stage so they at least share some of the blame but I'm not letting LE off the hook until I have more facts.

As was posted several times in this thread; apparently LE was posing as the protestors and instigating some things. Perhaps they over reacted in this situation.
 
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