More Small Ball this Coming Season?

#52
#52
Catbone said:
Barnes will be fired after the 2018 season, he will go all 3 seasons without a tourney appearance
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I get your point, but if the team is showing progress each year you have to give him an additional year. Making the dance is not that easy especially in the SEC which may not get but 3-4 teams in each season. If progress is made each year in wins, player development, recruiting and scheduling the results will eventually pay off. Tenn is not the kind of school that is going to be a powerhouse in basketball year in and year out.
 
#53
#53
Special Ed said:
Hard to see OP's question as anything but rhetorical.
When you have no studly bigs, "small-ball" is a foregone conclusion for the upcoming season.
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It would probably be easier to swallow if Barnes hadn't come in with the rep of super recruiter. Puzzlin that he signs a guy with about two years of bb experience and another he can't stand or can't coach. Sorry I expected more on the recruiting end. Then there's Reese #2. Sorry again. Don't get it . Not asking for his head but I'm baffled at the attitude about big guys since coming here.
 
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#54
#54
calban said:
It would probably be easier to swallow if Barnes hadn't come in with the rep of super recruiter. Puzzlin that he signs a guy with about two years of bb experience and another he can't stand or can't coach. Sorry I expected more on the recruiting end. Then there's Reese #2. Sorry again. Don't get it . Not asking for his head but I'm baffled at the attitude about big guys since coming here.
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In the 2016 class we signed Fulkerson and Williams in the post, and we currently have Alexander and Schofield as sophomores, also added senior Lew Evans. No those guys aren't 7'1", but you've got 6'8", 6'7", 6'10", 6'6" and 6'9". I am perfectly aware Fulkerson needs to add strength, Williams needs to improve his conditioning, Alexander needs to gain weight, Schofield needs to continue to improve conditioning and that Evans is ideally a role player, but my point is you've now got 4 underclassmen who if their bodies are right have the height and maybe more importantly the length to play in the post.

Tennessee is pursuing Lance Thomas very strongly along with a laundry list of other guys ranging from 6'9"-6'11", so for arguments sake say they land Thomas and the Huffman kid. So entering next season you'd have 6'10", 6'10", 6'9", 6'8", 6'8", 6'7" and 6'6" in the post. No that's not Kentucky type size, but it is absolutely enough size and length on paper to be successful, the skill set becomes the question.

I think it's pretty apparent to those who have paid attention that this is a methodical rebuild approach in which Barnes has opted to take. He didn't opt to lod on JUCO's and graduate transfers in his first class to possibly salvage 17-18 wins. He didn't opt to load up on graduate transfers in his second class to possibly reach 18-19 wins, instead he has basically added guys he feel have high ceilings and are coachable, and who ideally need a year or two before being heavily relied upon. Now, whether that is going to work or not isn't what I am saying, I am simply saying that is the approach in which he is taking. If by year 3 Alexander isn't an SEC caliber big, Turner can't play the point, 3/6 signees in the 2016 class have transferred, then it will be obvious it was the incorrect approach. I do however think if Barnes can keep the majority of his early classes together for 3-4 years that by year 3 you will start to see this method payoff.

I didn't expect a NCAAT trip in year 1, I don't expect one in year 2, I have said I think the goal is year 3. I think if he gets this program to the dance in year 3 then this method was a successful one and you'll see Tennessee continue to make the big dance consistently under Barnes, if year 3 is still a 14-16 win type season without even a sniff from the NIT then it likely was not the right choice.

Basically I would like to see this:

2015-2016: 13-18
2016-2017: 16-15
2017-2018: 19-12
2018-2019: 21-10
2020-?: consistent 20+ wins seasons
 
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#55
#55
bleedingTNorange said:
In the 2016 class we signed Fulkerson and Williams in the post, and we currently have Alexander and Schofield as sophomores, also added senior Lew Evans. No those guys aren't 7'1", but you've got 6'8", 6'7", 6'10", 6'6" and 6'9". I am perfectly aware Fulkerson needs to add strength, Williams needs to improve his conditioning, Alexander needs to gain weight, Schofield needs to continue to improve conditioning and that Evans is ideally a role player, but my point is you've now got 4 underclassmen who if their bodies are right have the height and maybe more importantly the length to play in the post.

Tennessee is pursuing Lance Thomas very strongly along with a laundry list of other guys ranging from 6'9"-6'11", so for arguments sake say they land Thomas and the Huffman kid. So entering next season you'd have 6'10", 6'10", 6'9", 6'8", 6'8", 6'7" and 6'6" in the post. No that's not Kentucky type size, but it is absolutely enough size and length on paper to be successful, the skill set becomes the question.

I think it's pretty apparent to those who have paid attention that this is a methodical rebuild approach in which Barnes has opted to take. He didn't opt to lod on JUCO's and graduate transfers in his first class to possibly salvage 17-18 wins. He didn't opt to load up on graduate transfers in his second class to possibly reach 18-19 wins, instead he has basically added guys he feel have high ceilings and are coachable, and who ideally need a year or two before being heavily relied upon. Now, whether that is going to work or not isn't what I am saying, I am simply saying that is the approach in which he is taking. If by year 3 Alexander isn't an SEC caliber big, Turner can't play the point, 3/6 signees in the 2016 class have transferred, then it will be obvious it was the incorrect approach. I do however think if Barnes can keep the majority of his early classes together for 3-4 years that by year 3 you will start to see this method payoff.

I didn't expect a NCAAT trip in year 1, I don't expect one in year 2, I have said I think the goal is year 3. I think if he gets this program to the dance in year 3 then this method was a successful one and you'll see Tennessee continue to make the big dance consistently under Barnes, if year 3 is still a 14-16 win type season without even a sniff from the NIT then it likely was not the right choice.

Basically I would like to see this:

2015-2016: 13-18
2016-2017: 16-15
2017-2018: 19-12
2018-2019: 21-10
2020-?: consistent 20+ wins seasons
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Sounds pretty sane when you splain it.
I'm just not that optmistic in the recovery time. Without leadership like we had last season in Armani and Punter wouldn't take much for this season to be catastrophic with all the youth.
like to see it happen your way though.
 
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#56
#56
calban said:
Without leadership like we had last season in Armani and Punter wouldn't take much for this season to be catastrophic with all the youth.
like to see it happen your way though.
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Bet Turner takes on a big leadership role, starting this yr. Admiral is another that will demand respeck from his teammates. They're both still young and raw, but both possess good leadership skill so far.imo
 
#57
#57
I swear some people you give them a pot of hot water. Some weiners and chilli. The complain because there is no buns. Or give them the whole hotdogs and they complain because they have to make it. My point being. Some people just gonna complain.
 
#58
#58
What some people forget, is we played small ball last year, but we didn't play it with a natural pg. punter is a combo/ hybrid. We should do better than last year, especially with more than one or two options at pg.
 
#59
#59
cwbytruckers said:
I swear some people you give them a pot of hot water. Some weiners and chilli. The complain because there is no buns. Or give them the whole hotdogs and they complain because they have to make it. My point being. Some people just gonna complain.
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it's an off season discussion. You can ignore it or stick it where the sun don't shine and cough real hard. Yer choice.
 
#60
#60
Lefteye said:
Bet Turner takes on a big leadership role, starting this yr. Admiral is another that will demand respeck from his teammates. They're both still young and raw, but both possess good leadership skill so far.imo
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That's a very good possibility. And Turner has had a season in the mix as a shirt. Very good thinking.
 
#61
#61
calban said:
Sounds pretty sane when you splain it.
I'm just not that optmistic in the recovery time. Without leadership like we had last season in Armani and Punter wouldn't take much for this season to be catastrophic with all the youth.
like to see it happen your way though.
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But that's what people said last year about Richardson, and the year before about McRae and Stokes, someone always steps up and replaces the departing guys to some extent.

I don't think we are gonna have someone average 23ppg like we did in Punter, but where we only had 3 guys average double digits points a game I think you could see 4-5 guys average that this year, thus giving a more balanced offense.

Again, I'm not saying whether it's the right or wrong way, or if it will or won't work, just saying that we need to really give it to probably mid way through year 2 before we can really start to say definitively either way.
 
#62
#62
bleedingTNorange said:
I don't think we are gonna have someone average 23ppg like we did in Punter, but where we only had 3 guys average double digits points a game I think you could see 4-5 guys average that this year, thus giving a more balanced offense.
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That's a much better scenario too in case of injuries. When Punter went down, we were hot garbage last year. More balance would have helped to negate his absence.
 
#63
#63
I think we are really going to see Admiral step up next year as the team leader.

As far as scoring goes I think there are plenty of options. Hubbs, Philips, and Mostella have all shown that they can be double digit scorers, just need some consistency.
 
#65
#65
jcv0010 said:
I think we are really going to see Admiral step up next year as the team leader.

As far as scoring goes I think there are plenty of options. Hubbs, Philips, and Mostella have all shown that they can be double digit scorers, just need some consistency.
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I mostly agree with this and want BTO is saying but here is I tell people. Hubbs, Mostella and or Phillips jump in scoring that helps replace Punter scoring, well then somebody has to replace their scoring from previous season. Example is Tyndall's Year with Josh having to play at PG his scoring jumped to 16ppg and Armani made a big jump from 3ppg to 10ppg. Newcomer Punter scored 10ppg with Hubbs and Reece uping their average also. Same thing can happen this upcoming season. Sounds great! Right? Problem is the scoring still went down from 72ppg to 63ppg. This past season the scoring average was a very nice 75ppg. Defense was awful though and probably won't get much better with all the newcomer's. This team needs to score a lot and rely on freshman a lot to win and that is asking to much.
 
#66
#66
pdogg said:
I mostly agree with this and want BTO is saying but here is I tell people. Hubbs, Mostella and or Phillips jump in scoring that helps replace Punter scoring, well then somebody has to replace their scoring from previous season. Example is Tyndall's Year with Josh having to play at PG his scoring jumped to 16ppg and Armani made a big jump from 3ppg to 10ppg. Newcomer Punter scored 10ppg with Hubbs and Reece uping their average also. Same thing can happen this upcoming season. Sounds great! Right? Problem is the scoring still went down from 72ppg to 63ppg. This past season the scoring average was a very nice 75ppg. Defense was awful though and probably won't get much better with all the newcomer's. This team needs to score a lot and rely on freshman a lot to win and that is asking to much.
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Why do they have to rely on freshmen a lot? I think that is an over statement.
 
#67
#67
pdogg said:
I mostly agree with this and want BTO is saying but here is I tell people. Hubbs, Mostella and or Phillips jump in scoring that helps replace Punter scoring, well then somebody has to replace their scoring from previous season. Example is Tyndall's Year with Josh having to play at PG his scoring jumped to 16ppg and Armani made a big jump from 3ppg to 10ppg. Newcomer Punter scored 10ppg with Hubbs and Reece uping their average also. Same thing can happen this upcoming season. Sounds great! Right? Problem is the scoring still went down from 72ppg to 63ppg. This past season the scoring average was a very nice 75ppg. Defense was awful though and probably won't get much better with all the newcomer's. This team needs to score a lot and rely on freshman a lot to win and that is asking to much.
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I think the 75ppg we averaged scoring likely goes down, I agree with that, where I disagree is that you don't think we improve defensively on the 75ppg we allowed.

Barnes resorted to playing Woodson big minutes because some guys just refused to buy in defensively, and with only 9 scholarship players competition to force guys to play defense wasn't there, I don't see that being an issue this upcoming season.
 
#68
#68
bleedingTNorange said:
I think the 75ppg we averaged scoring likely goes down, I agree with that, where I disagree is that you don't think we improve defensively on the 75ppg we allowed.

Barnes resorted to playing Woodson big minutes because some guys just refused to buy in defensively, and with only 9 scholarship players competition to force guys to play defense wasn't there, I don't see that being an issue this upcoming season.
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Not that but I'm thinking it would be more mental mistakes with guys not communicating or thinking somebody is switching over and they don't, not physical enough some nights, stuff like that.
 
#70
#70
Don't think it was really an issue with people buying in, they just don't have the length to guard. Honestly, from what I remember we really didn't have a bad defender on the team.mostella got lost a bunch, but that had nothing to do with buying in. Jmo.
 
#71
#71
pdogg said:
Not that but I'm thinking it would be more mental mistakes with guys not communicating or thinking somebody is switching over and they don't, not physical enough some nights, stuff like that.
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We had seniors last yr that had trouble with that some nights. Your right, it is a concern. But I actually think we might be better defensively this yr.

Consistent scoring concerns me more tho.
 
#72
#72
pdogg said:
Not that but I'm thinking it would be more mental mistakes with guys not communicating or thinking somebody is switching over and they don't, not physical enough some nights, stuff like that.
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We saw lapses and guys not paying attention to scouts per Barnes last year, I don't think you're gonna see that this year is what I'm saying.

I would be absolutely shocked if we allow 75ppg+ this upcoming season.
 
#73
#73
Dallasbowlin said:
Don't think it was really an issue with people buying in, they just don't have the length to guard. Honestly, from what I remember we really didn't have a bad defender on the team.mostella got lost a bunch, but that had nothing to do with buying in. Jmo.
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Reese and Hubbs were both pretty awful, McGhee couldn't guard without defending, Alexander guarded like a frosh and Kasongo was lost 24/7
 
#74
#74
Mostella improved a lot defensively last yr too. Barnes said he asked for the assignment to guard Ulis. And he did pretty well both times. Ulis had 20 in TBA but iirc most of those were not on Stella. And in Rubb Stella helped hold him to 11.
 
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#75
#75
bleedingTNorange said:
Reese and Hubbs were both pretty awful, McGhee couldn't guard without defending, Alexander guarded like a frosh and Kasongo was lost 24/7
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Kasongo I agree. But mcghee's role was to play physical, so I can't really count that. Reese wasn't that awful. I remember some good games from him. Hubbs was ok before the knee surgery , jmo.
 
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