More Small Ball this Coming Season?

#26
#26
pdogg said:
It was not worse than why Tyndall inherited. Donnie was hired almost a month later than Rick, had to replace a complete recruiting class and deal with the Cuonzo drama which included on the recruiting trail that the Tnnessee fan base is racist. Rick didn't deal with that junk, had Tyndall's 3 guys and a guy named Rob Gray(avg. 16ppg this year at Houston) wanting to sign here but Rick blew him off but at least signed Lamonte Turner who was also along with Gray visiting Tennessee the day Hart fired Tyndall. Turner was already working with Tyndall to graduate early and enroll at
Tennessee. Rick and staff did a good follow up job getting him signed. Rick should have with his name and contacts came in here doing the Iowa State model and build it up quickly with a lot of grad transfer's, regular transfer's siting out, Juco's and a few freshman that you slowly bring up and then you build. Now you've built it up and showed you can win here, you start signing highly rated freshman and back off on the transfer's to 1-2 of them a year. It's actually a pretty simple formula and then Rick could show Texas and other's that he's still got it.
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The "who inherited what" narrative can be spun either way. Donnie didn't inherit a great situation by any means, but he didn't leave it any better than he found it either. Also, he did have to replace an entire recruiting class, but mostly by his own choosing.
 
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#27
#27
Thunder Good-Oil said:
A lot of people on here think that they know how to coach better than the guy that's been doing it for a couple of decades and gets paid 7 figures to coach for Tennessee.
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But, why is he suddenly a small ball coach and had his recruiting ass handed to him by Howland?

Be fine if he'd brought some big guys in that could play. Missed on that note 2 seasons now.
Young guys might be decent in a couple more seasons, but what about now?
 
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#29
#29
calban said:
But, why is he suddenly a small ball coach and had his recruiting ass handed to him by Howland?

Be fine if he'd brought some big guys in that could play. Missed on that note 2 seasons now.
Young guys might be decent in a couple more seasons, but what about now?
Click to expand...

He's not set in his ways. He game plans around what he has on the roster. Not a lot of high 4 and 5 stars were going to be rushing to come play at TN with their 3rd coach in 3 years.

Barnes was run out of Austin after several years of having teams with high level players only being in the program for a year or two that couldn't make deep runs in the NCAAT. There aren't a whole lot of teenagers that could carry a major program. So know he's signing a lot more guys that will be in the program for 4 or 5 years. I bet they are far more team first guys than what TN has had for many years. I bet that their collective basketball IQs are considerably higher than what TN has had for many years. I bet that their attitudes are great and there won't be issues with character. Lamont Turner is already a leader as a RS freshman. Imagine what he could potentially accomplish if he stays four more seasons. Even if Barnes isn't able to make multiple Sweet 16s, he'll at least leave a solid core for the next coach.

Howland is dirtier than most. TN isn't in any position to take a chance on somebody that raises red flags with the NCAA. Two of the last 3 coaches were busted big time by the NCAA. Right now TN needs to clean up their image as much as they need to win more games. Barnes inherited a train wreck. It wasn't going to turn around immediately. After Barnes builds a solid core of basketball players that gel as a team, very good one-and-done 5 stars might love to come to TN with that group supporting his time in college. If not, an experienced, veteran group of basketball players might be able to do a lot of damage in YE tournaments. Also, the KY model might be legislated out of contention by the NCAA. Guys that don't even attempt to be "student" athletes could turn out to be liabilities real soon... the Australian guy at LSU makes the whole institution of "college" basketball a joke. I'm glad that Barnes isn't taking that approach.

Maybe it won't work, but I'd rather TN try to build a respectable program on and off of the court than build a unit full of a bunch of guys who don't think that their **** stinks and are just passing through. A lot of these recruits seem as if they really want to be here.

One or more posters are questioning if TN has any outside shooters. Isn't the kid from Carter a shooter? Turner? Bone? Mostella could develop into a reliable threat as well.
 
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#30
#30
Apparently Barnes recruited a bunch of guys playing their first year of hoops. 1-29 record next year. Once again SMDH at these threads. I'm surprised the former coach wasn't in the thread title.
 
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#31
#31
cwbytruckers said:
Apparently Barnes recruited a bunch of guys playing their first year of hoops. 1-29 record next year. Once again SMDH at these threads. I'm surprised the former coach wasn't in the thread title.
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Also, apparently TN will be going up against a boat-load of teams with rosters full of Lebrons and Durants and Currys being lead by Phil Jacksons.
 
#33
#33
pdogg said:
It was not worse than why Tyndall inherited. Donnie was hired almost a month later than Rick, had to replace a complete recruiting class and deal with the Cuonzo drama which included on the recruiting trail that the Tnnessee fan base is racist. Rick didn't deal with that junk, had Tyndall's 3 guys and a guy named Rob Gray(avg. 16ppg this year at Houston) wanting to sign here but Rick blew him off but at least signed Lamonte Turner who was also along with Gray visiting Tennessee the day Hart fired Tyndall. Turner was already working with Tyndall to graduate early and enroll at
Tennessee. Rick and staff did a good follow up job getting him signed. Rick should have with his name and contacts came in here doing the Iowa State model and build it up quickly with a lot of grad transfer's, regular transfer's siting out, Juco's and a few freshman that you slowly bring up and then you build. Now you've built it up and showed you can win here, you start signing highly rated freshman and back off on the transfer's to 1-2 of them a year. It's actually a pretty simple formula and then Rick could show Texas and other's that he's still got it.
Click to expand...

Some good points in the matter
 
#34
#34
Thunder Good-Oil said:
He's not set in his ways. He game plans around what he has on the roster. Not a lot of high 4 and 5 stars were going to be rushing to come play at TN with their 3rd coach in 3 years.

Barnes was run out of Austin after several years of having teams with high level players only being in the program for a year or two that couldn't make deep runs in the NCAAT. There aren't a whole lot of teenagers that could carry a major program. So know he's signing a lot more guys that will be in the program for 4 or 5 years. I bet they are far more team first guys than what TN has had for many years. I bet that their collective basketball IQs are considerably higher than what TN has had for many years. I bet that their attitudes are great and there won't be issues with character. Lamont Turner is already a leader as a RS freshman. Imagine what he could potentially accomplish if he stays four more seasons. Even if Barnes isn't able to make multiple Sweet 16s, he'll at least leave a solid core for the next coach.

Howland is dirtier than most. TN isn't in any position to take a chance on somebody that raises red flags with the NCAA. Two of the last 3 coaches were busted big time by the NCAA. Right now TN needs to clean up their image as much as they need to win more games. Barnes inherited a train wreck. It wasn't going to turn around immediately. After Barnes builds a solid core of basketball players that gel as a team, very good one-and-done 5 stars might love to come to TN with that group supporting his time in college. If not, an experienced, veteran group of basketball players might be able to do a lot of damage in YE tournaments. Also, the KY model might be legislated out of contention by the NCAA. Guys that don't even attempt to be "student" athletes could turn out to be liabilities real soon... the Australian guy at LSU makes the whole institution of "college" basketball a joke. I'm glad that Barnes isn't taking that approach.

Maybe it won't work, but I'd rather TN try to build a respectable program on and off of the court than build a unit full of a bunch of guys who don't think that their **** stinks and are just passing through. A lot of these recruits seem as if they really want to be here.

One or more posters are questioning if TN has any outside shooters. Isn't the kid from Carter a shooter? Turner? Bone? Mostella could develop into a reliable threat as well.
Click to expand...
Good points.
 
#35
#35
Barnes gets 4 years minimum and likely 5.

Zero shot he gets fired after 3years with where this program has fallen to
 
#36
#36
pdogg said:
It was not worse than why Tyndall inherited. Donnie was hired almost a month later than Rick, had to replace a complete recruiting class and deal with the Cuonzo drama which included on the recruiting trail that the Tnnessee fan base is racist. Rick didn't deal with that junk, had Tyndall's 3 guys and a guy named Rob Gray(avg. 16ppg this year at Houston) wanting to sign here but Rick blew him off but at least signed Lamonte Turner who was also along with Gray visiting Tennessee the day Hart fired Tyndall. Turner was already working with Tyndall to graduate early and enroll at
Tennessee. Rick and staff did a good follow up job getting him signed. Rick should have with his name and contacts came in here doing the Iowa State model and build it up quickly with a lot of grad transfer's, regular transfer's siting out, Juco's and a few freshman that you slowly bring up and then you build. Now you've built it up and showed you can win here, you start signing highly rated freshman and back off on the transfer's to 1-2 of them a year. It's actually a pretty simple formula and then Rick could show Texas and other's that he's still got it.
Click to expand...

I was a fan of Tyndall's coaching, but he didn't make the NCAAT either. So, I am not sure what your point is. Barnes had to rebuild once Tyndall's big guys left, and Alexander is a better prospect than any of Tyndall's front court recruits.

It sounds like you can just take a program over and build it from scratch. It's not quite as simple as you suggest. We now have some talent to build on.
 
#37
#37
Hard to see OP's question as anything but rhetorical.
When you have no studly bigs, "small-ball" is a foregone conclusion for the upcoming season.
 
#38
#38
UK won the NCAA with RUPP'S RUNTS. We beat UK last year with almost no hight. One does not have to have giants to win basketball games.
 
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#39
#39
Thunder Good-Oil said:
He's not set in his ways. He game plans around what he has on the roster. Not a lot of high 4 and 5 stars were going to be rushing to come play at TN with their 3rd coach in 3 years.

Barnes was run out of Austin after several years of having teams with high level players only being in the program for a year or two that couldn't make deep runs in the NCAAT. There aren't a whole lot of teenagers that could carry a major program. So know he's signing a lot more guys that will be in the program for 4 or 5 years. I bet they are far more team first guys than what TN has had for many years. I bet that their collective basketball IQs are considerably higher than what TN has had for many years. I bet that their attitudes are great and there won't be issues with character. Lamont Turner is already a leader as a RS freshman. Imagine what he could potentially accomplish if he stays four more seasons. Even if Barnes isn't able to make multiple Sweet 16s, he'll at least leave a solid core for the next coach.

Howland is dirtier than most. TN isn't in any position to take a chance on somebody that raises red flags with the NCAA. Two of the last 3 coaches were busted big time by the NCAA. Right now TN needs to clean up their image as much as they need to win more games. Barnes inherited a train wreck. It wasn't going to turn around immediately. After Barnes builds a solid core of basketball players that gel as a team, very good one-and-done 5 stars might love to come to TN with that group supporting his time in college. If not, an experienced, veteran group of basketball players might be able to do a lot of damage in YE tournaments. Also, the KY model might be legislated out of contention by the NCAA. Guys that don't even attempt to be "student" athletes could turn out to be liabilities real soon... the Australian guy at LSU makes the whole institution of "college" basketball a joke. I'm glad that Barnes isn't taking that approach.

Maybe it won't work, but I'd rather TN try to build a respectable program on and off of the court than build a unit full of a bunch of guys who don't think that their **** stinks and are just passing through. A lot of these recruits seem as if they really want to be here.

One or more posters are questioning if TN has any outside shooters. Isn't the kid from Carter a shooter? Turner? Bone? Mostella could develop into a reliable threat as well.
Click to expand...

Really good post.
 
#40
#40
VOLINVONORE said:
UK won the NCAA with RUPP'S RUNTS. We beat UK last year with almost no hight. One does not have to have giants to win basketball games.
Click to expand...

Just saying, that runt was 6'10 and probably one of the best shot blockers ive ever seen.
 
#41
#41
We'll have a seven footer when dal suits up in orange :)
 
#42
#42
Alexander showed flashes of being really good at times with his shot blocking and rebounding. Anyone know if he is attending any big man camps this summer?
 
#43
#43
Size is the most overrated thing in basketball. This year we will have a lot more ball handling and depth. This recruiting class is also highly underrated.

Barnes is giving himself as much leeway as possible with fans and the media, but I project we will make the tournament.
 
#44
#44
Dallasbowlin said:
Just saying, that runt was 6'10 and probably one of the best shot blockers ive ever seen.
Click to expand...

Classic post right here!!! Not only did Rupp's Runts not win a National Championship but their starting center was barely 6' 5". I'd like to know who this 6'10 shot blocker was?
 
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#45
#45
calban said:
But, why is he suddenly a small ball coach and had his recruiting ass handed to him by Howland?

Be fine if he'd brought some big guys in that could play. Missed on that note 2 seasons now.
Young guys might be decent in a couple more seasons, but what about now?
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just my perception, but you appear to be a lot more cynical and lot less patient with Barnes than you have shown to be in the past with other coaches.

As Thunder said, and myself and others have pointed out in the past, the national perception a year ago was that Tennessee basketball was a train wreck headed nowhere. That perception isn't easily changed and certainly not done overnight. 4* & 5* players have way too many options to settle on a program on its 3rd coach in 3 years and 4th coach in 6 years, a program just a few years removed from an NCAA investigation, and a program who just fired a coach for an NCAA investigation at another school.

I wasn't a big fan of the Barnes hire from a "splash" standpoint. I don't view him as a great basketball mind, but he definitely provided an element of stability and integrity. It's just unrralistic to expect him to turn things completely around when he is facing so many obstacles outside of his own control. Once he maintains some stability, then we'll see if he can reel in the type talent we'd all like to see. And that might never happen, but he will at least get the program's image back on solid footing for the next guy.
 
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#46
#46
VOLINVONORE said:
UK won the NCAA with RUPP'S RUNTS. We beat UK last year with almost no hight. One does not have to have giants to win basketball games.
Click to expand...

Rupp's Runts didn't win the title. They lost to Texas Western in the championship game. Also, they only lost one regular season game, the next to last game of the regular season....to Tennessee. :)

Edit: Cat fan beat me to it.
 
Last edited:
#47
#47
CatsQueue said:
Classic post right here!!! Not only did Rupp's Runts not win a National Championship but their starting center was barely 6' 5". I'd like to know who this 6'10 shot blocker was?
Click to expand...

Huh? He said they won a title with the runts, and I said Davis was no runt.
 
#49
#49
Ohhhh ok. My bad, I thought he was just calling uk players "Rupp runts." I had forgotten about the old team called rupps runts.
 
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