Might lose another?

[VolBoyFord]

id much rather he weed them out prior to signing them. its ok to say the emperors outfit sucks every now and then.

Butch gets time with these kids prior to signing day, but he's not babysitting them.. How is he supposed to know "so and so" is going to turn up drug charges or not want to play by the rules. He padded this years roster extra thick, now as someone else replied, he's "trimming back the fat".

 

[Mookie]

Clearing room for Isaac Nauta

 

[TheMookieMonster]

Not Preston. He has busted his butt in rehab to be on the field of play and be at his best. I doubt Swain knew about the score being flagged when he made those comments.

I've heard a rumor on who it was and I won't comment but I will say if it's who I heard no one will give that much a damn if he is sent packing, so not an elite prospect from what I've heard.

This is the problem. I get that losing guys that aren't great prospects isn't a big deal, but I must be the only guy here that hates the image this projects on the program. We have been in muddy waters for quite some time between the NCAA investigations and rape charges lately. I would really like to correct the course and have a better national perception. Losing 3-4 guys before the season starts, and 5-6 after last spring, isn't the way to do that. Oversigning and then "running them off" as some people have put it, isn't a good look.

But meh, it might not be a big deal to some. This is just my opinion.

 

[golfballs]

I think Swain meant Preston Williams....he has to retake his ACT before he can even step onto the practice field.

?

Was he given a conditional acceptance to UT? Based on retaking the ACT?

 

[volquest86]

Not Preston. He has busted his butt in rehab to be on the field of play and be at his best. I doubt Swain knew about the score being flagged when he made those comments.

I've heard a rumor on who it was and I won't comment but I will say if it's who I heard no one will give that much a damn if he is sent packing, so not an elite prospect from what I've heard.

Hey gimme initials then if no name will be said...regardless of the caliber of the player I still want to know.

 

[RockyTopInBham]

Once the LOI is signed, it's counted toward a class. Oliver leaving opens up a number in the 85-man limit.

Whatever he "signed" was not "official". It's been stated that there were 6 or 7 blueshirts. This is how I've followed it-

We signed 30 guys.
Rumored that J Robertson signed a blueshirt since he was a late flip and never officially visited UT. That makes 31.
Swafford went on scholarship and was counted ahead to the 15 class to make 32.

That means that there were 7 blueshirts in this last class in order to make numbers work. Two were public (Perry & Bruce) and the others maybe didn't want it known. When Young came along, he was a BS too. I watched the faxes on NSD too, but they apparently weren't official LOIs. So there are 5 remaining, I think, and we know Young & Perry are two of them.

So because Swafford is no longer on scholarship, he opens up one since walk-ons are year-to-year scholarships and we can apparently backcount one to his spot in the last class. Now LWS> where'd I mess up? So that's how you get 21 for this class.

25 - 5 blueshirts + 1 backcount for Swafford = 21.

 

[butchna]

Whatever he "signed" was not "official". It's been stated that there were 6 or 7 blueshirts. This is how I've followed it-

We signed 30 guys.
Rumored that J Robertson signed a blueshirt since he was a late flip and never officially visited UT. That makes 31.
Swafford went on scholarship and was counted ahead to the 15 class to make 32.

That means that there were 7 blueshirts in this last class in order to make numbers work. Two were public (Perry & Bruce) and the others maybe didn't want it known. When Young came along, he was a BS too. I watched the faxes on NSD too, but they apparently weren't official LOIs. So there are 5 remaining, I think, and we know Young & Perry are two of them.

So because Swafford is no longer on scholarship, he opens up one since walk-ons are year-to-year scholarships and we can apparently backcount one to his spot in the last class. Now LWS> where'd I mess up? So that's how you get 21 for this class.

25 - 5 blueshirts + 1 backcount for Swafford = 21.

Have Wharton,Jenkins and Peterman's 85 man spots been accounted for?

 

[Kristy*]

Whatever he "signed" was not "official". It's been stated that there were 6 or 7 blueshirts. This is how I've followed it-

We signed 30 guys.
Rumored that J Robertson signed a blueshirt since he was a late flip and never officially visited UT. That makes 31.
Swafford went on scholarship and was counted ahead to the 15 class to make 32.

That means that there were 7 blueshirts in this last class in order to make numbers work. Two were public (Perry & Bruce) and the others maybe didn't want it known. When Young came along, he was a BS too. I watched the faxes on NSD too, but they apparently weren't official LOIs. So there are 5 remaining, I think, and we know Young & Perry are two of them.

So because Swafford is no longer on scholarship, he opens up one since walk-ons are year-to-year scholarships and we can apparently backcount one to his spot in the last class. Now LWS> where'd I mess up? So that's how you get 21 for this class.

25 - 5 blueshirts + 1 backcount for Swafford = 21.

Yes, I understand that rumor. I just disagree with it. The numbers were able to work to backcount all but Bruce, Perry, and Young. Even if the 3 of them were known blueshirts, the school could have announced them the same as the other alleged blueshirts if that rumor were true. Larry is a great poster and has good insider info. He shared the quote with me from the insider about the blueshirts. The quote said, "I believe." His source is a good insider, but based on the comment, it seems like the blueshirts number was based on an opinion rather than on information coming from within the program.

 

[KBVol]

When does the Swain Event even come on anymore? I haven't listened in a while because there is always an issue. I tried listening this morning and there is another show on.

Off today, last minute vacation before madness of the football season starts Monday. He's on 7-10am eastern, Monday through Friday, 1180 am in Knoxville. I live in Nashville so I listen via the Swain Event app.

 

[RockyTopInBham]

Yes, I understand that rumor. I just disagree with it. The numbers were able to work to backcount all but Bruce, Perry, and Young. Even if the 3 of them were known blueshirts, the school could have announced them the same as the other alleged blueshirts if that rumor were true. Larry is a great poster and has good insider info. He shared the quote with me from the insider about the blueshirts. The quote said, "I believe." His source is a good insider, but based on the comment, it seems like the blueshirts number was based on an opinion rather than on information coming from within the program.

I don't think we could backcount any more in the 2015 class due to the number of guys that we did that with in the '14 class. Yes, the school could have, but I think the news of Perry and Bruce blueshirting came out as more publicity than anything else. They wanted to commend these local guys for sacrificing, and it got a great response. I just think the other guys didn't want it known that they were blueshirting, so they didn't have write-ups about it. There's still no way to fit the numbers we had without at least 6 blueshirts, and there was no space to back-count any more scholarships. That's just how I understand it. It's not a rumor that Oliver was a blueshirt. That has been confirmed. Regardless of what we all thought we saw on NSD. But, I could be totally wrong. TIFWIW.

 

[Kristy*]

I don't think we could backcount any more in the 2015 class due to the number of guys that we did that with in the '14 class. Yes, the school could have, but I think the news of Perry and Bruce blueshirting came out as more publicity than anything else. They wanted to commend these local guys for sacrificing, and it got a great response. I just think the other guys didn't want it known that they were blueshirting, so they didn't have write-ups about it. There's still no way to fit the numbers we had without at least 6 blueshirts, and there was no space to back-count any more scholarships. That's just how I understand it. It's not a rumor that Oliver was a blueshirt. That has been confirmed. Regardless of what we all thought we saw on NSD. But, I could be totally wrong. TIFWIW.

Confirmed by whom?

Here is how the numbers could work with the class size and the available spots to backcount:

Starting in 2008 class was 18 (+7 spots available)
2009 24 (+1 year, +8 total)
2010 27 (-2 year, +6 total)
2011 27 (-2 year, +4 total)
2012 22 (+3 year, +7 total)
2013 22 (+3 year, +10 total)
2014 31 (-6 year, +4 total)
2015 27 (-2 year, +2 total)

The backcounting can go further back. But this just proves that the numbers can work.

It will be most telling to see what happens with Oliver over the next few weeks. Bruce never signed anything (confirmed), so he can go to another D1 school and play immediately. If Oliver did sign, he would have to get his release to not lose a year of eligibility. And, either way, he would have to sit out a year at another D1 school. Unless he transfers down a division, of course.

 

[Nationdom]

Wth?? Butch is gonna need to re-evaluate that recruiting profile if we keep losing freshman recruits before fall practice even starts.....Bruce, Oliver, and now another?

All 3*s

 

[RockyTopInBham]

Confirmed by whom?

Here is how the numbers could work with the class size and the available spots to backcount:

Starting in 2008 class was 18 (+7 spots available)
2009 24 (+1 year, +8 total)
2010 27 (-2 year, +6 total)
2011 27 (-2 year, +4 total)
2012 22 (+3 year, +7 total)
2013 22 (+3 year, +10 total)
2014 31 (-6 year, +4 total)
2015 27 (-2 year, +2 total)

The backcounting can go further back. But this just proves that the numbers can work.

It will be most telling to see what happens with Oliver over the next few weeks. Bruce never signed anything (confirmed), so he can go to another D1 school and play immediately. If Oliver did sign, he would have to get his release to not lose a year of eligibility. And, either way, he would have to sit out a year at another D1 school. Unless he transfers down a division, of course.

Per Fortenberry yesterday on VolQuest regarding Oliver as a BS-

Yes, according to several sources Oliver was a blue shirt so he never signed papers. They get that one back and are now up to 21. Definitely didn't see this coming at the beginning of the summer.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, you can only back-count to the year prior, not multiple years. And you're giving Dooley WAY too much credit to think he had half as much of an idea about numbers as Butch and his staff. And even if you can go back that far, you aren't taking into account any player that has earned a scholarship and counts against the initial counter of the next class. If we had that many back-counts available, you probably wouldn't read from these insiders on VQ and 247 that we're stuck on 21 guys for next class. We'd probably be taking 27 if your math is right. There's a reason the magic number according to these guys is 21. It's because we have initial counters against the 2016 class without counting any commits for that class. They came from a previous class. That's called a blue-shirt.

 

[DaddyChad]

Confirmed by whom?

Here is how the numbers could work with the class size and the available spots to backcount:

Starting in 2008 class was 18 (+7 spots available)
2009 24 (+1 year, +8 total)
2010 27 (-2 year, +6 total)
2011 27 (-2 year, +4 total)
2012 22 (+3 year, +7 total)
2013 22 (+3 year, +10 total)
2014 31 (-6 year, +4 total)
2015 27 (-2 year, +2 total)

The backcounting can go further back. But this just proves that the numbers can work.

It will be most telling to see what happens with Oliver over the next few weeks. Bruce never signed anything (confirmed), so he can go to another D1 school and play immediately. If Oliver did sign, he would have to get his release to not lose a year of eligibility. And, either way, he would have to sit out a year at another D1 school. Unless he transfers down a division, of course.

Fort confirmed he was a blue shirt on VQ. Oliver did fax in something on NSD but apparently it wasn't an LOI I guess. Maybe it was just something for ceremony.

 

[Kristy*]

Per Fortenberry yesterday on VolQuest regarding Oliver as a BS-



Also, if I'm not mistaken, you can only back-count to the year prior, not multiple years. And you're giving Dooley WAY too much credit to think he had half as much of an idea about numbers as Butch and his staff. And even if you can go back that far, you aren't taking into account any player that has earned a scholarship and counts against the initial counter of the next class. If we had that many back-counts available, you probably wouldn't read from these insiders on VQ and 247 that we're stuck on 21 guys for next class. We'd probably be taking 27 if your math is right. There's a reason the magic number according to these guys is 21. It's because we have initial counters against the 2016 class without counting any commits for that class. They came from a previous class. That's called a blue-shirt.

My understanding is that the magic number was based on the 85 man limit. And yes, Dooley lacked intelligence on the field. But, off the field, I think he was a fairly smart individual - book smarts. My numbers just showed that it could work. The 2 extra could have been used along the way by guys put on scholly in their first 2 years. And the backcounting can keep going. Like I said, it will be most telling to see where Oliver ends up.

A blueshirt cannot receive any promise of a scholarship. And they cannot sign even a Financial Aid Agreement. I just don't buy the secrecy. If they announced some, I think they would have announced all if they could have. Even if it were known Bruce and Perry were blueshirting.

 

[Kristy*]

Fort confirmed he was a blue shirt on VQ. Oliver did fax in something on NSD but apparently it wasn't an LOI I guess. Maybe it was just something for ceremony.

Yeah, maybe. I just don't understand why they would treat one blueshirt differently from another.

 

[RockyTopInBham]

My understanding is that the magic number was based on the 85 man limit. And yes, Dooley lacked intelligence on the field. But, off the field, I think he was a fairly smart individual - book smarts. My numbers just showed that it could work. The 2 extra could have been used along the way by guys put on scholly in their first 2 years. And the backcounting can keep going. Like I said, it will be most telling to see where Oliver ends up.

A blueshirt cannot receive any promise of a scholarship. And they cannot sign even a Financial Aid Agreement. I just don't buy the secrecy. If they announced some, I think they would have announced all if they could have. Even if it were known Bruce and Perry were blueshirting.

Ok. I'm not sure what else to say, other than the insiders who are around the program everyday said that Oliver is one. And even if Oliver ends up at a smaller school, that doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't one. It could just mean that he's going to start there and try to transfer to a big school later on. IMO, blueshirts are the main reason why the number is locked at 21 for next class. Right now, including Pearson, we only have 82 guys on scholarship for this season. We will have 15 guys exhaust their eligibility as is right now. Expect at least 3 more to go between now and next fall in order to get under the 85 man limit. And that's not counting a guy like Jumper, who may end up going on scholarship soon. Good back-and-forth, Kristy.

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

All 3*s

You must be elated that they're gone.

 

[DaddyChad]

Yeah, maybe. I just don't understand why they would treat one blueshirt differently from another.

That's a good question but they had several blue shirts and we only know a few of them by name.

 

[Kristy*]

Ok. I'm not sure what else to say, other than the insiders who are around the program everyday said that Oliver is one. And even if Oliver ends up at a smaller school, that doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't one. It could just mean that he's going to start there and try to transfer to a big school later on. IMO, blueshirts are the main reason why the number is locked at 21 for next class. Right now, including Pearson, we only have 82 guys on scholarship for this season. We will have 15 guys exhaust their eligibility as is right now. Expect at least 3 more to go between now and next fall in order to get under the 85 man limit. And that's not counting a guy like Jumper, who may end up going on scholarship soon. Good back-and-forth, Kristy.

Ditto

 

[UTVOLKeith]

It's snowballing now.

 

[Kristy*]

RockyTopInBham and DaddyChad,

Check out this rule:

13.10.2.1 Comments Before Commitment. Before the signing of a prospective student-athlete to a National Letter of Intent or an institution’s written offer of admission and/or financial aid or before the institution receives his or her financial deposit in response to its offer of admission, a member institution may comment publicly only to the extent of confirming its recruitment of the prospective student-athlete. The institution may not comment generally about the prospective student-athlete’s ability or the contribution that the prospective student-athlete might make to the institution’s team; further, the institution is precluded from commenting in any manner as to the likelihood of the prospective student-athlete committing to or signing with that institution.

Wording seems like they couldn't have announced the blueshirts?

 

[Kristy*]

Also, 13.10.2.6 Intent to Enroll. A member institution shall not publicize (or arrange for publicity of) a prospective student-athlete’s intention to accept its offer of financial assistance.

 

[BigOrangeTailgate]

Confirmed by whom?

I spoke with a UT coach that I've known for several years now at the end of June/1st of July just before they took their break. He told me they didn't have any more spots to back count for this class and that they originally planned to sign 18 but that his new number was 17. I did not ask him to explain to me how they were getting their numbers and just took his word for it. I figured he would know. Afterwards I wondered where that extra spot went but figured they must be planning to award a scholarship to a walk-on (that's purely speculation on my part...Jumper came to mind as I was thinking he was a walk-on that had impressed although I'm not real clear on how initial counters work for cases like that) or maybe the '17 class was shaping up such that they wanted to be able to sign 26 (again total speculation). Obviously this was before the Swafford situation materialized as well.

Having said that, I realize this still isn't confirmation but thought I would share what I was told.

 

[BruinVol]

Also, 13.10.2.6 Intent to Enroll. A member institution shall not publicize (or arrange for publicity of) a prospective student-athlete’s intention to accept its offer of financial assistance.

It can be announced if a series of things have been done not including an nli. The one I know for sure of is if a room deposit has been paid to live on campus