Memphis Recruits

[VolGee4]

neither player is a consensus 4*; Scout, rivals, and 247 list them as 3*. People also have to remember that CJP had to start from scratch after Cal decided to take his recruiting class to UK with him. CCM has some momentum but he is yet to sniff a NCAA tournament and this season is a boom or bust for the Vol's.

How do you think Martin started? He did not inherit one returning starter, and he had to fill his team in April and May after Hopson and Harris left. In fact, I am pretty sure that other than Cam Tatum, no player averaged more than 13 minutes the year before.

 

[johnnybravo]

Really Bravo, i've always thought of you as the unbiased type. Here are some of the guys CJP has landed outside of Shelby County, I would love to see how CCM's list stacks up.

Sorry, I usually try to be, but I will always throw a jab or two to KY and/or Memphis. I'm going to celebrate anytime we beat Memphis in anything. Yesterday it was a small recruiting battle. A victory is a victory.

 

[dixiebullfrog]

Would have to think Pastner and Memphis are in about the same spot. As well as Pastner has done recruiting, they don't hand out trophys for recruiting. No excuse for Pastner not to have this years Memphis team in the sweet 16 with the talent they have.

Same for the Vols, but that's where you want to be. Three All-SEC players to include POY candidate plus Freshman of the Year candidate. You've set the bar pretty low saying the season is a success if the Vols just make the tourney. If Martin's first two teams were really tourney-quality, this year's team should be shooting for the round of 16. You're already laying the groundwork saying a 5-12 seed upset is OK and its Martin's 1st dance. A 1st game tourney loss will not sit well with UT fans regardless of the circumstances. JMO

 

[BigZiti09]

Same for the Vols, but that's where you want to be. Three All-SEC players to include POY candidate plus Freshman of the Year candidate. You've set the bar pretty low saying the season is a success if the Vols just make the tourney. If Martin's first two teams were really tourney-quality, this year's team should be shooting for the round of 16. You're already laying the groundwork saying a 5-12 seed upset is OK and its Martin's 1st dance. A 1st game tourney loss will not sit well with UT fans regardless of the circumstances. JMO

Agree with your last statement.

Personally, I don't think his 1st team was tourney quality. I think it was a miracle that we were on the bubble.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Same for the Vols, but that's where you want to be. Three All-SEC players to include POY candidate plus Freshman of the Year candidate. You've set the bar pretty low saying the season is a success if the Vols just make the tourney. If Martin's first two teams were really tourney-quality, this year's team should be shooting for the round of 16. You're already laying the groundwork saying a 5-12 seed upset is OK and its Martin's 1st dance. A 1st game tourney loss will not sit well with UT fans regardless of the circumstances. JMO

The bolded first....when you're picked to finish 11th in your own conference, I'm not sure many would argue that's considered to be a tournament quality team.

The difference is that Pastner has been to 3 NCAA tournaments, he's lost in the 1st round twice, and just about lost in the first round again last year. If he makes the dance this year and gets knocked out first round again, I would think the Memphis fans would be a little restless, but hey if you're happy with it who am I to say otherwise.

As for Tennessee, I've actually said I won't be happy with us squeaking in and getting knocked out. What I did say was that if they have a great year, are ranked all season, get a 4 or 5 seed and lose first round, I would be ok. Dissapointed, well yea, ok always dissapointed when we lose. However, it's progress, having a ranked team and getting them to the dance is progress, and that's what you want out of your program.

Which is why I say the 2 are different (Memphis & Tennessee)...for Memphis to make the dance and get bounced again in round 1, that wouldn't be progress, don't you want to see progress from Pastner and Memphis.

 

[VolGee4]

Same for the Vols, but that's where you want to be. Three All-SEC players to include POY candidate plus Freshman of the Year candidate. You've set the bar pretty low saying the season is a success if the Vols just make the tourney. If Martin's first two teams were really tourney-quality, this year's team should be shooting for the round of 16. You're already laying the groundwork saying a 5-12 seed upset is OK and its Martin's 1st dance. A 1st game tourney loss will not sit well with UT fans regardless of the circumstances. JMO

Martin's first team was not tourney worthy. We got a false sense of hope because they made a great run in January and February. As you can see my post above, Martin inherited a team without a returning starter, and many played very little minutes the year before. Last year was a bit of a disappointment. I don't think you can put a specific goal on this year's team. There is alot that goes into it, it won't necessarily be a disappointment just because we don't get to the Sweet 16.

 

[tennrich1]

You fools just don't get it. Y'all act like pastner went after all of those players hard. And I'm not just saying that bc I'm a memphis fan. I will be the first to admit, pastner has it easier than most bc he can just stay in the city to recruit. But when you have that privelage, then why not take advantage of it. Most recruits that pastner goes after that don't live in memphis, he does not persue as hard as the kids in memphis. Meaning that of he loses out on a kid not from memphis, then no big deal. You can go get someone from the city of memphis easy. Those players you listed were persued heavy by Cuonzo, and they were not persued heavy by pastner. Y'all act like the players that y'all sign that memphis also has offered we're our "end all" recruits. Heck no, they were hardly even talked about on the memphis boards and were not serious recruits. With Hubbs being the semi exception

Well this post is just not accurate....sorry

 

[tennrich1]

Would have to think Pastner and Memphis are in about the same spot. As well as Pastner has done recruiting, they don't hand out trophys for recruiting. No excuse for Pastner not to have this years Memphis team in the sweet 16 with the talent they have.

This is the bottom line...BTO..you nailed it...THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THIS...Josh has done less (a lot less) with more than any program in the nation...Just read the national publications...most all (I'm sure there are a couple who dont agree) say this about CJP...and I personally like Josh...I really do...and hey...Josh knows this very thing is being said about him as well...I'm close friends with two BIG TIME boosters of UM(money and all)...and that's mainly what they discuss as well...recruiting is great and all but its a two edge sword......you gotta win with em...and when you dont...well thats the potato CJP is eating right now...

 

[Exfix]

You fools just don't get it. Y'all act like pastner went after all of those players hard. And I'm not just saying that bc I'm a memphis fan. I will be the first to admit, pastner has it easier than most bc he can just stay in the city to recruit. But when you have that privelage, then why not take advantage of it. Most recruits that pastner goes after that don't live in memphis, he does not persue as hard as the kids in memphis. Meaning that of he loses out on a kid not from memphis, then no big deal. You can go get someone from the city of memphis easy. Those players you listed were persued heavy by Cuonzo, and they were not persued heavy by pastner. Y'all act like the players that y'all sign that memphis also has offered we're our "end all" recruits. Heck no, they were hardly even talked about on the memphis boards and were not serious recruits. With Hubbs being the semi exception

*pursoo

 

[wtorange]

Pastner can and will keep any recruit inside the I-240 loop. Any other place in the Memphis metro area including Jackson, Bolivar, Dyersburg, etc is fair game.

Those places are nowhere near the Memphis metro area.

 

[BigZiti09]

Those places are nowhere near the Memphis metro area.

Yes. Dyersburg is a two day drive.

 

[wtorange]

Yes. Dyersburg is a two day drive.

Trust me the Golden Circle area does not consider itself as anything close to Memphis.

 

[Purplehaze26]

Dyersburg is about 80 miles from Memphis. Hour and half drive. That area is Big Orange territory. Born and raised there.

 

[SouthernBoiNOLA]

I know there are many other factors that go into who you recruit, but, if you look at the non-Memphis players signed by both coaches, that held offers from both schools this is what you get (per ESPN).

Memphis - Shaq Goodwin

UT - Robert Hubbs, Larry Austin

So according to your criteria Martin leads 2-1. But you will have to admit, that the criteria is very skewed. Based on % of players that the coach's recruiting classes that are from out of state are as follows

UT-76%
Memphis - 60%

So it would seem to me that Martin would have more success with out of state recruits vs Pastner due to the fact that he has a larger percentage of out of state recruits he signs.

 

[Kusotate]

I know there are many other factors that go into who you recruit, but, if you look at the non-Memphis players signed by both coaches, that held offers from both schools this is what you get (per ESPN).

Memphis - Shaq Goodwin

UT - Robert Hubbs, Larry Austin

So according to your criteria Martin leads 2-1. But you will have to admit, that the criteria is very skewed. Based on % of players that the coach's recruiting classes that are from out of state are as follows

UT-76%
Memphis - 60%

So it would seem to me that Martin would have more success with out of state recruits vs Pastner due to the fact that he has a larger percentage of out of state recruits he signs.

I understand you are a UT fan but did you honestly read any of the crap you just posted? So you stated 60% of UM roster is composed of OOS players compared to 76% of UT's rosters which equates to CCM have more success recruiting OOS. Did you also consider that UM has a recruiting base unlike UT, so the Vols are forced to rely on OOS talent. Austin is the first 4* CCM has signed from OOS so that makes him a better recruiter than CJP i guess.


OOS players signed by CJP
W. Barton 5* (MD)
Goodwin 4* (GA)
Iverson 4* (VA)
Powell 4* (FL)
Woodson 4* (WV) Prep
G. Johnson 4* (KS)
Wilson 3* (VA)
Kendrick 5* (GA)
DJ Stephens 2* (TX)
A. Barton NR

OOS players signed by CCM
Austin 4*
Cornish 3*
Cofer 3*
Richardson 3*
Thompson 3*
Moore 3*
Barton 3*

 

[rocky200663]

I understand you are a UT fan but did you honestly read any of the crap you just posted? So you stated 60% of UM roster is composed of OOS players compared to 76% of UT's rosters which equates to CCM have more success recruiting OOS. Did you also consider that UM has a recruiting base unlike UT, so the Vols are forced to rely on OOS talent. Austin is the first 4* CCM has signed from OOS so that makes him a better recruiter than CJP i guess.


OOS players signed by CJP
W. Barton 5* (MD)
Goodwin 4* (GA)
Iverson 4* (VA)
Powell 4* (FL)
Woodson 4* (WV) Prep
G. Johnson 4* (KS)
Wilson 3* (VA)
Kendrick 5* (GA)
DJ Stephens 2* (TX)
A. Barton NR

OOS players signed by CCM
Austin 4*
Cornish 3*
Cofer 3*
Richardson 3*
Thompson 3*
Moore 3*
Barton 3*

The game is not played on paper. But yes on paper Pastner stacks up probably better than Martin at this point. But he has had a 2 year head start on Martin and he has a built in recruiting advantage in his backyard. But your argument is valid especially when you compare recruits on paper. But the game is played on the court and Pastner has only proven he can out recruit everyone in Conf USA up to this point and he has done a great job of doing that. Other than that he needs to start beating other people in the Top 25 (which in 5 years he hasn't done). So on paper yes. ON the court where the game is played NO!!!!

 

[Chris4Vols22]

Titties.

 

[SouthernBoiNOLA]

I understand you are a UT fan but did you honestly read any of the crap you just posted? So you stated 60% of UM roster is composed of OOS players compared to 76% of UT's rosters which equates to CCM have more success recruiting OOS. Did you also consider that UM has a recruiting base unlike UT, so the Vols are forced to rely on OOS talent. Austin is the first 4* CCM has signed from OOS so that makes him a better recruiter than CJP i guess.


OOS players signed by CJP
W. Barton 5* (MD)
Goodwin 4* (GA)
Iverson 4* (VA)
Powell 4* (FL)
Woodson 4* (WV) Prep
G. Johnson 4* (KS)
Wilson 3* (VA)
Kendrick 5* (GA)
DJ Stephens 2* (TX)
A. Barton NR

OOS players signed by CCM
Austin 4*
Cornish 3*
Cofer 3*
Richardson 3*
Thompson 3*
Moore 3*
Barton 3*

First of all dude....I am a Memphis fan. 2nd of all you misunderstand what the numbers are telling you. The original argument was about head to head non Memphis match ups. Based on that very limited criteria it would appear that Martin is out dueling Pastner, but if you look at percentage's of team makeup, it would show how flawed the original criteria was in the first place. Just trying to show you a little analysis behind the original question.:hi:

 

[MrVol]

Martin is 0-3 vs Pastner. Unless Martin wins big and had a deep run in the NCAA tourney this year with all the talent we have he may not be recruiting against anybody. NIT does not cut it here.

 

[rocky200663]

Martin is 0-3 vs Pastner. Unless Martin wins big and had a deep run in the NCAA tourney this year with all the talent we have he may not be recruiting against anybody. NIT does not cut it here.

MrVol that is correct and that has been acknowledged on here. That is the one thing that Pastner has done that helps his argument. But truthfully Tennessee has not been a ranked team during this time and Martin has had a short stick to work with in his first 2 years here because of the mess he inherited. Memphis has dominated Conf USA and Tennessee the last 2 years but none of those teams have been ranked in the Top 25. Pastner hasn't beaten anyone ranked in the Top 25 in 5 years with talent that on paper suggests Memphis should be a Top 5 team. And he really hasn't come close even at home. So our point is that until he does that on the court these on paper meaningless recruiting rankings don't prove anything. Yes Martin needs to win this year no doubt. But he finally has a Top 10 type team he can put on the court that he recruited. So our argument is that Martin may in fact be as good of a recruiter as Pastner. We just don't know yet. On the court we just don't know until this year plays out.

 

[dixiebullfrog]

rocky200663

FTR, Pastner has been a HC for four years; not five.

You're beginning to sound like BTO 2.0 on steroids. For all the suffering Vol fans who could care less about the constant, repetitive UT - UM back-and-forth, the mods should come up with patented numbered responses. So when you say #23, I counter with #5. And, in three weeks when you say #23 again (and bold it like BTO does), I won't even have to refer to the response list.

Again FTR, both BB programs are positioned to have excellent seasons in 2013. The tourney committee would have to be blind and dumb for us not to meet in the Sweet 16.

And, like Kusotate above, I was disappointed in JB's OP swipe at Memphis recruiting. To his credit, however, JB did kick BTO's butt on the NC State OOC game topic a few days ago. Even Quinn agrees.

 

[johnnybravo]

And, like Kusotate above, I was disappoint in JB's OP swipe at Memphis recruiting.

I didn't know I was held in such high regard with Memphis fans. Maybe I should try to rejoin the Memphis forum. Could be that my lifetime ban has been lifted.

Anyway, put yourself in a TN bb fan's shoes for just one minute. After 2 years of mostly subpar recruits and uncertainty if our coach is able to recruit at an elite level, we finally have back to back recruiting classes that we can start to brag about. We should have at least one day to celebrate when landing a huge recruit for us. When Nichols signed with Memphis last year, I wasn't on the Memphis forum trying to take the wind out of their sails. Oh yeah.....I couldn't get on there if I wanted to anyway.

I really hope we play you guys in the big tourney. It will be huge for both programs. I would love nothing more than for CCM to put the nail in CJP coffin.

EDIT: Nope....just checked

Your forum account is currently banned. Ban Reason: troll
Ban will be lifted: Never

Guess not all Memphis fans hold me in the same high regard as the ones that hang out here.

 

[VolGee4]

And, like Kusotate above, I was disappoint in JB's OP swipe at Memphis recruiting.

I didn't know I was held in such high regard with Memphis fans. Maybe I should try to rejoin the Memphis forum. Could be that my lifetime ban has been lifted.

Anyway, put yourself in a TN bb fan's shoes for just one minute. After 2 years of mostly subpar recruits and uncertainty if our coach is able to recruit at an elite level, we finally have back to back recruiting classes that we can start to brag about. We should have at least one day to celebrate when landing a huge recruit for us. When Nichols signed with Memphis last year, I wasn't on the Memphis forum trying to take the wind out of their sails. Oh yeah.....I couldn't get on there if I wanted to anyway.

I really hope we play you guys in the big tourney. It will be huge for both programs. I would love nothing more than for CCM to put the nail in CJP coffin.

It shows you that a coach moving up to high level basketball needs more than a year to recruit good talent. Basketball is not even close to football in terms of recruiting. Everything is done much earlier (although it seems football is moving toward that). For those that say Pastner did it early, he also has a built-in recruiting base that UT does not have. Pastner's first full class consisted of the big Memphis class along with Barton. That was a good get, but he didn't get another out of state player until 2 years later with Goodwin and Johnson. Martin is now in his 3rd full recruiting year, and the work is paying off.

 

[johnnybravo]

.

 

[Gcrop]

Neither has done crap in the tournament, which is all that really matters.

Both should have good years coming up though.