Let's Clear Some Stuff Up- An Overview

[40Cap]

There's some arguing points against Kelly. I think he would KILL here and will do another overview of him, Oregon's offense, and why I think so but basically it comes down to i don't feel his offense is a gimmick and the basis of the success of his offense is for the DC's to know what he is doing. He wants them to know.

Oregon is 900 miles from their closest hot bed of recruiting, 900 miles and he still had top 10 and 12 classes. To me that's impressive. The ncaa stuff is blown way out of proportion, it was nothing and they admitted as much.

Most great coaches are a-holes, they're alpha's and have a job were EVERYONE thinks they know better. To this day Nick Saban and Bill Belicheck still get questioned, it will never end. I wish there was another TN guy like Phil out there, win on the field and kissing babies off but there's not. Chip Kelly would be an assassin, our hired gun and I'm ok with that. Just win baby

I didn't call his O a gimmick, but I do think some of the mystique is gone from a lot of these offenses that seemed so unstoppable just a few years ago. Lots of teams now run variations, and off-shoots of that offense. Now that D's see these type systems more frequently, they are more more educated on how to defend them. Not saying it can't work, just that it's not as unique as it was 5-7 years ago. I put CK in the same class as a Gus Mahlzan, as far as being an innovator, but eventually the game, and DC's, catch up w/ it

 

[GRN1926]

roster maybe - more that the Admin at UT sucked- and coaches did not want to get involved with a school that had Mike Hamilton and then Dave Hart as AD's-

That's a good point too. Hamilton was a dead man walking and fired not long after Dooley was hired. No good coach is gonna come in to that either, with an AD that didn't hire you. Bad situation

 

[GRN1926]

Completely agree on Hamilton's poor job but why does Hart catch so much grief? He took over a mess and completely turned it around financially. He did have to make some unpopular decisions from a fan perspective (i.e...lady vols) but they were absolutely sound biz decisions. His hires haven't been home runs but, as OP details very well, there were some ext/int forces that limited options.

UTAD went from hemorrhaging money to 2nd best revenue during his tenure. That alone out to earn the guy some credit.

Hart did some good and bad things. Tough situation he inherited and I think he, like Butch, was brought in to do some heavy lifting and dirty work. Consider the hire, Hart was essentially a retired AD in an easy support role at his alma mater. I think he was 60yrs when hired. You know that's not a long term solution from the beginning

 

[GRN1926]

I didn't call his O a gimmick, but I do think some of the mystique is gone from a lot of these offenses that seemed so unstoppable just a few years ago. Lots of teams now run variations, and off-shoots of that offense. Now that D's see these type systems more frequently, they are more more educated on how to defend them. Not saying it can't work, just that it's not as unique as it was 5-7 years ago. I put CK in the same class as a Gus Mahlzan, as far as being an innovator, but eventually the game, and DC's, catch up w/ it

Gus can't coach up QB's. CK won with frosh QB's. Nobody is running the same system as Chip, there are variations sure but even bama has adopted portions of the spread because it works. Chip has proven he will constantly make adjustments and tinker.

 

[VolFan..But]

Fulmer was promoted because Majors told everyone we were rebuilding and the had a heart attack. While he was out CPF kicked ass. Majors came back and **** the bed.
The end

Majors had a 65% winning %. Had Phil not been named Offensive Coord. and Recruiting Coord after the 0-6 start it would have kept being horrific. Majors demanded a raise and pissed the money man off. Fulmer was a hot commodity at the time.

 

[VolFan..But]

I agree with you here.

Tennessee has hired some big names, and lately tried to hire big names.

Tennessee was in a dumpster fire 2008-2013. None of the "big names" wanted to come here and risk anything.....plus Tennessee knew the situation they were in and were not willing to put down record money.......for a coach to come into this "dumpster fire."

Now it is not 2008-13, Tennessee has talent, they have back ups, they have recruited well, they have been winning, they have been winning bowls, and Tennessee has been built......NOW is the time to get the right coach to take Tennessee to the next level.

Kiffin scortched the Earth by running off 45 players and commitments including a top 3 recruiting class. No name coach would come here because of the way Fulmer was treated. When Stoops was called he told Hamilton "if Phil can't make you happy I can't either". Live with the facts.

 

[Skizer41]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I would not consider CK a home run hire. He had success at one job ( a job w/ umlimited resources, by the way). In the few years since he left (under an NCAA cloud,fwiw) the type of offense he ran has been somewhat exposed. Many teams run similar O's now, and college DC's have figured that O out, to an extent. He had suspect recruiting methods, and was hard to get along w/ at his 2 NFL stops. I think throwing Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh type $$ at him would be a mistake. I could care less about perception, and care a lot more about finding the right person. What makes him such a home-run?

You're not in the minority. You're oon the silent majority. I think Kelly would be a huge mistake.

 

[onevol74]

I understand what you are trying to say BUT we actually go after elite coaches but none want to come here so we then go after mediocre coaches........

Gruden, Cowher, Butch Davis, Lovie Smith, Gary Patterson, We offered and they all said NO!!!

Lovie was bad timing. He was in the middle of a NFL contract. Bet he would come this year if we wanted him.

 

[82_VOL_83]

To keep with the theme here.....so we fire Butch today....are there really any elite coaches available to hire? Honest question, honest concern. Before you jump you need a plan. Just something to ponder

UT Admin motto:

Ready, Fire, Aim!

 

[onevol74]

Kiffin scortched the Earth by running off 45 players and commitments including a top 3 recruiting class. No name coach would come here because of the way Fulmer was treated. When Stoops was called he told Hamilton "if Phil can't make you happy I can't either". Live with the facts.

Think Stoops, at that time, had any intentions of leaving OU? Really? The guy hates the SEC.

I find it interesting that Stoops would have been offended that UT was not happy with two losing seasons in Fulmer’s last four years. Tells me that he would have never taken the Alabama job after Shula, or the Florida job after Zook either. Or the Georgia job after Reich. Or even the LSU job after Miles.

This is not unique to UT.

 

[40Cap]

Gus can't coach up QB's. CK won with frosh QB's. Nobody is running the same system as Chip, there are variations sure but even bama has adopted portions of the spread because it works. Chip has proven he will constantly make adjustments and tinker.

When did he "prove" that? Nobody had caught up to his offense yet. I promise you, if he had some amazing system, others would copy it (and they have). He's not a magician, Helfrich ran similar stuff, and eventually defenses caught up. Was Chip better/smarter/more creative than Helfrich? Maybe, probably, I would just be concerned that CK doesn't have enough of a track record to justify his legend. People talk like he would be Saban all over again, and I just don't see it.

 

[GRN1926]

When did he "prove" that? Nobody had caught up to his offense yet. I promise you, if he had some amazing system, others would copy it (and they have). He's not a magician, Helfrich ran similar stuff, and eventually defenses caught up. Was Chip better/smarter/more creative than Helfrich? Maybe, probably, I would just be concerned that CK doesn't have enough of a track record to justify his legend. People talk like he would be Saban all over again, and I just don't see it.

So Helfrich not being able to replicate the success of his mentor is a reflection of the capabilities of his mentor? How many Nick Saban disciples have had Nick Saban success? And that goes for many disciples of great coaches. I don't think anyone expects a saban level run nut CK is best chance at high level success of any coach available.

CK has proven that by adding wrinkles to his offense over time. He turned Oregon into the no.1 offense in the country for like 6 straight years, that's not impressive? And other teams are copying it, even bama uses variations of the spread offense now. If the best coach at the top program has embraced the spread then why is CK's offense outdated?

People say "defenses know the O now, it won't work anymore", but that's exactly why it does work. CK wants the defense to know what he's doing so they will overpursue and eat up the misdirection. He's personally even published information and done clinics of how his offense works. It's no secret.

Phil won 75% of his games with pro-style, smash mouth football. Everyone knew he was pounding the rock to setup play action yet they still could only stop it 1 out of 4 times. Kelly has won 87% of the time, I like those odds.

 

[VolFan..But]

Since we seem to be headed in the direction of as coaching change I thought it'd be good to clear-up a few misconceptions about TN, the hires we've made, and what reality we are facing with hiring a new coach in a multi-post overview.

Flame away.

"TN always go after the mediocre coach"

We have done this in the past but this not consistent in our history. Timing, complete incompetence, and circumstances have got us where we are today. Here is the breakdown of the why and circumstances surrounding our last 5 coaching hires and looking forward:

1. Majors
2. Fulmer
3. Kiffin
4. Dooley
5. Butch
6. Why TN is in a strong position
7. What could go wrong

Majors won a National Title. Fulmer won a National Title, built a dynasty and reset the expectations of a mediocre program. And is a Hall of Fame coach. And you mention those others in the same sentence??