Khalid Henderson Commits to TN

#227
#227
trevols81 said:
How did the coaching staff look bad in the UNC game?
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did you watch the game. it was a copy of the lsu game. you know they have to throw the ball, so you cheat off the ball and give them 20 a pop. it was terrible. to me it looks like dooley is learning on the job. we should have easily won that game, it was like having phil back as coach. i'm not saying that the man is a bad coach or a great coach, but right now he is very average and i think he is going to need great talent to make him look good. i really don't think he is going to outcoach anybody.
 
#230
#230
champyvol said:
i would say you are right in the lsu game, but the NC game talent level was pretty much even in my opinion. with all that said the coaching staff looked bad in those games.
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No. It wasn't. Even with the players they lost, UNC had more depth and "talent".

What specifically bothers you about the UNC game? UT's "best player" made some bad plays but other than that I am not sure what your major complaint is. Butch Davis according to many here should have been pursued as UT's coach instead of Dooley. He's been recruiting well for 4 years. He had a Sr QB vs UT's undermanned D.... and we can still agree that UT's coaches put the players in a position to win the game.

I don't know if the staff can really coach yet. I think we should wait until they have a little more to work with before concluding one way or the other.
 
#231
#231
sjt18 said:
No. It wasn't. Even with the players they lost, UNC had more depth and "talent".

What specifically bothers you about the UNC game? UT's "best player" made some bad plays but other than that I am not sure what your major complaint is. Butch Davis according to many here should have been pursued as UT's coach instead of Dooley. He's been recruiting well for 4 years. He had a Sr QB vs UT's undermanned D.... and we can still agree that UT's coaches put the players in a position to win the game.

I don't know if the staff can really coach yet. I think we should wait until they have a little more to work with before concluding one way or the other.
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alot of people think tennessee has no talented players at all. i disagree and think tennessee had just as talented players as NC, maybe NC has more depth. the reason we lost the game was the play calling on defense at the end of the game. it was terrible. like i said in my opinion dooley is going to have to have mannings, lewis, and the prices of the world to be successful. without gear up for alot of 500 seasons. hope i'm wrong, but logic seems to be with me on this one.
 
#232
#232
I guess I am one that thinks they did a great job last year. The talent is very young and they did not have the full 85, so I thought only 4 wins could happen last year. The offense especially was young, when Rogers, Rivera, and Hunter was in the lineup, the entire offense was new, no starters from the previous year and to make it even harder many of that lineup were freshman. So I can't wait to see what they can do when the starters becomes juniors + seniors.
 
#233
#233
champyvol said:
alot of people think tennessee has no talented players at all. i disagree and think tennessee had just as talented players as NC, maybe NC has more depth. the reason we lost the game was the play calling on defense at the end of the game. it was terrible. like i said in my opinion dooley is going to have to have mannings, lewis, and the prices of the world to be successful. without gear up for alot of 500 seasons. hope i'm wrong, but logic seems to be with me on this one.
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Looked more to me like a terrible XP attempt by Lincoln, a stupid penalty on Janzen, and a poor call by the refs (he didn't make the catch cleanly on Janzen's penalty). I doubt Dooley or any other head coach calls the defensive plays unless they are also the D-coordinator. I see very little logic in any of your posts, just obsessive pessimism.
 
#234
#234
champyvol said:
alot of people think tennessee has no talented players at all. i disagree and think tennessee had just as talented players as NC, maybe NC has more depth. the reason we lost the game was the play calling on defense at the end of the game. it was terrible. like i said in my opinion dooley is going to have to have mannings, lewis, and the prices of the world to be successful. without gear up for alot of 500 seasons. hope i'm wrong, but logic seems to be with me on this one.
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On the up side, the coaches put the team in a position to win. On the down side, then they lost. I really get what you're saying here. I'm hoping that Dooley just didn't manage to get all the plays coached and good to go when he needed them. But that is just a lame excuse for blowing two great victories. I really think Dooley will learn from his mistakes, but I didn't think he would make them in the first place. So who knows?
 
#235
#235
And BTW, it wasn't just play calling on defense at the MCB. All's Coach had to do was eat two more seconds on offense, and Tennessee wins.
 
#236
#236
champyvol said:
alot of people think tennessee has no talented players at all. i disagree and think tennessee had just as talented players as NC, maybe NC has more depth. the reason we lost the game was the play calling on defense at the end of the game. it was terrible. like i said in my opinion dooley is going to have to have mannings, lewis, and the prices of the world to be successful. without gear up for alot of 500 seasons. hope i'm wrong, but logic seems to be with me on this one.
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If by successful you mean win championships, then what coach doesn't need players of their caliber to win, or make the coach "look good?" Tebow, Harvin at UF; Ingram, McClain, Jones at UA; Newton, Fairley at AU... shall I go on?

The implication here is that if Dooley were a good coach, he wouldn't need stellar players to win/be successful/make him "look good," he'd just outcoach them. Meanwhile, each and every Dooley detractor disparages him based on his not recruiting well, because you can't expect to recruit average talent and coach them up to compete against UF, UA, etc...

This staff has a lot to prove in talent evaluation/recruiting and coaching ability. But some of these arguments are ridiculous.
 
#238
#238
zidanefan said:
If by successful you mean win championships, then what coach doesn't need players of their caliber to win, or make the coach "look good?" Tebow, Harvin at UF; Ingram, McClain, Jones at UA; Newton, Fairley at AU... shall I go on?

The implication here is that if Dooley were a good coach, he wouldn't need stellar players to win/be successful/make him "look good," he'd just outcoach them. Meanwhile, each and every Dooley detractor disparages him based on his not recruiting well, because you can't expect to recruit average talent and coach them up to compete against UF, UA, etc...

This staff has a lot to prove in talent evaluation/recruiting and coaching ability. But some of these arguments are ridiculous.
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i guess what i was trying to say is the great players are going to other sec schools. Tennessee just can't seem to get the 5 star studs that it used to. I think without the 5 star studs, Dooley will not win over 8 games unless he coaches alot better. teams like wisconsin, boise st, utah, tcu and others seem to win with great coaching. I just don't see that at tennessee yet, and as of right now our recruiting is in the crapper this year while the rest of the sec is pulling away. Just not alot of room for optomism in my opinion. Won't even say anything about the ncaa problems.
 
#239
#239
champyvol said:
i guess what i was trying to say is the great players are going to other sec schools. Tennessee just can't seem to get the 5 star studs that it used to. I think without the 5 star studs, Dooley will not win over 8 games unless he coaches alot better. teams like wisconsin, boise st, utah, tcu and others seem to win with great coaching. I just don't see that at tennessee yet, and as of right now our recruiting is in the crapper this year while the rest of the sec is pulling away. Just not alot of room for optomism in my opinion. Won't even say anything about the ncaa problems.
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You can't say recruiting is in the crapper at least until midseason. But, on that note, I do think we're going to have to show improvement on the field before we start landing the five star studs. I guess we got Da'Rick Rogers, but the more we win, the more we'll consistently be able to recruit with the best. But until then, recruiting in the top 15 is still good enough to make us competitive with the big dogs in the SEC. Not enough to out-talent them, but enough to get us in the ballpark. We haven't been in the ballpark with Alabama or Florida for at least three years.
 
#240
#240
champyvol said:
i guess what i was trying to say is the great players are going to other sec schools. Tennessee just can't seem to get the 5 star studs that it used to. I think without the 5 star studs, Dooley will not win over 8 games unless he coaches alot better. teams like wisconsin, boise st, utah, tcu and others seem to win with great coaching. I just don't see that at tennessee yet, and as of right now our recruiting is in the crapper this year while the rest of the sec is pulling away. Just not alot of room for optomism in my opinion. Won't even say anything about the ncaa problems.
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Here is a list of the 5-star studs TN has had over the last 10 years. What would you say the success rate of this list was? This is why I'm alright with whoever Dooley signs. We've had some 3-stars that these listed below never even got close to. I believe we had 5 5-stars that signed when Berry did. (Martin has stayed injured) and who has been overly memorable off of that list? Even a high number of the 4-stars on the signee's lists aren't memorable

James Banks
Gerald Riggs, Jr.
Mondre Dickerson
Brandon Jeffries
Jonathan Mapu
Robert Meachem
Jesse Mahelona
Albert Toeaina
Demetrice Morley
Walter Fisher
Chris Donald
Eric Berry
Ben Martin
Kenny O’Neal
Brent Vinson
Bryce Brown
Janzen Jackson
Da’Rick Rogers
 
#241
#241
Out coach them or out recruit them. Or both. But you MUST do one of them. Who cares how you won? Just Win Baby! Let the losers discuss all the sordid details.
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#243
#243
PimpVol said:
Out coach them or out recruit them. Or both. But you MUST do one of them. Who cares how you won? Just Win Baby! Let the losers discuss all the sordid details.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Amen from a drunk guy.
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#244
#244
bcmorrow said:
Here is a list of the 5-star studs TN has had over the last 10 years. What would you say the success rate of this list was? This is why I'm alright with whoever Dooley signs. We've had some 3-stars that these listed below never even got close to. I believe we had 5 5-stars that signed when Berry did. (Martin has stayed injured) and who has been overly memorable off of that list? Even a high number of the 4-stars on the signee's lists aren't memorable

James Banks
Gerald Riggs, Jr.
Mondre Dickerson
Brandon Jeffries
Jonathan Mapu
Robert Meachem
Jesse Mahelona
Albert Toeaina
Demetrice Morley
Walter Fisher
Chris Donald
Eric Berry
Ben Martin
Kenny O’Neal
Brent Vinson
Bryce Brown
Janzen Jackson
Da’Rick Rogers
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This should be pinned at the top of any argument on your board when the "we don't get enough 5 stars" crew shows up.
 
#247
#247
TennVOLS93 said:
i expected so much more out of riggs
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He shared carries with Houston (who played in the NFL for 2 or 3 years), had a 1,000 yard season as a junior and broke his ankle midway through his senior year.

Barring injury, he would have had back to back 1000 yard seasons. That's not too shabby.
 
#248
#248
justingroves said:
He shared carries with Houston (who played in the NFL for 2 or 3 years), had a 1,000 yard season as a junior and broke his ankle midway through his senior year.

Barring injury, he would have had back to back 1000 yard seasons. That's not too shabby.
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IIRC, he was a huge disappointment his senior year before he broke his ankle. Arian Foster was a shot in the arm for our run game.
 
#249
#249
Incipient said:
IIRC, he was a huge disappointment his senior year before he broke his ankle. Arian Foster was a shot in the arm for our run game.
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The OL sucked ass.

You had Rob Smith scared McClendon was coming on campus to take his job, Micheal Frogg seeing PT and Albert quitting up front.

Riggs was literally the only threat the offense had in 05.

Arian Foster wasn't really a shot in the arm he just got 25+ carries a game. Hardesty was in front of Foster until he shredded his knee against Ole Miss.
 
#250
#250
justingroves said:
The OL sucked ass.

You had Rob Smith scared McClendon was coming on campus to take his job, Micheal Frogg seeing PT and Albert quitting up front.
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They did, but Foster ran well behind them.

Riggs was literally the only threat the offense had in 05.

Arian Foster wasn't really a shot in the arm he just got 25+ carries a game. Hardesty was in front of Foster until he shredded his knee against Ole Miss.
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I just checked my memory against the stats. That was my one semester of NCAA athletics, so I didn't watch as many games as I would've liked. Turns out, your memory is better than mine.

Riggs ran well in 3.5 of the first five games, topping 4.8 YPC against UAB, Florida, and Ole Miss, and topping 100 yards against UAB and Ole Miss. Against LSU, he was average (good in the second half, if memory serves), and against Georgia, he was horrendous (19 carries for 52 yards, 2.7 YPC). The Georgia game is probably what was sticking in my mind.

Foster and Riggs split the Bama game, having an identical 3.8 YPC on 14 and 18 carries, respectively. Foster topped 100 yards in each of the last five games (Carolina, Notre Dame, Memphis, Vandy, Kentucky), topping 4.4 YPC in each. However, the Carolina and Vanderbilt games (the two that stuck in my mind) are the only ones where his YPC stats were better than Riggs'. The others just show more yardage because of a stronger commitment to the run. It was really a great finish to the season, but it's no longer clear to me that Riggs wouldn't have done the same.

In summary, that was a fun little exercise that shows you were remembering things correctly. Riggs had one truly bad performance (UGA), and Foster had two really good ones (Vandy, Carolina), but apart from that, their difference in stats just stems from a change in offensive philosophy.
 
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