Behr
RIP Toby.
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It's actually apples and apples in several big ways.
1. Both concern the national debate on race relations.
2. Both involve businesses making decisions concerning their stance in this national debate.
3. Neither business "went looking for this fight"; both had the need to make a decision forced upon them by an employee's actions.
4. Both businesses' decisions are being questioned, because both fall well short of "the wisdom of Solomon" (in fairness, not sure there are any really good options available).
Here, I'll prove the apples and apples nature of these two cases. I'm going to substitute one name for another, using your own words. See if they still sound true:
Sure, that sounds valid.
Now the other:
Yep, that one sounds equally valid switched around.
Sure, the two businesses have taken very different decisions; gone in different directions. Starbucks came down strongly on the side of reform--let's hold training sessions to end unconscious bias and prejudice. Meanwhile, the NFL tried to walk a tightrope between the sides, but leaned in the direction of preserving existing societal norms (respect the flag, follow convention).
So where they're going are apples and oranges. But what they've been facing, and the pressures involved, have absolutely been apples and apples.
So, you don't think the NFL can mandate employee policy at the workplace, but Starbucks can?
I'm sorry, the situations are vastly different.
In the Starbucks case, a non-employee complaint about the actions of an employee at Starbucks that occurred at Starbucks started that whole thing. No political statement was made causing the public relations situation at all.
In the case of the NFL, an employee making a political statement on company time regarding things that had nothing to do with the NFL started that whole thing. It was the political statement by the employee that created their public relations problem. No one that I am aware of was kneeling for the national anthem due to race relations issues within the NFL.
You're showing your bias in this response.
The Starbucks employee took an action; as a result of that action, Starbucks has been dragged into the national debate about race relations.
You could replace "Starbucks" in that sentence with "NFL" and it would be just as accurate.
You're blaming Starbucks' woes on a non-employee complaint (about the employee's action), and that shows a willingness to ignore the employee's proximate role. That's bias.
The cases are similar in structure; you're just viewing them from an angle that makes them appear different to you.
You're showing your bias in this response.
The Starbucks employee took an action; as a result of that action, Starbucks has been dragged into the national debate about race relations.
You could replace "Starbucks" in that sentence with "NFL" and it would be just as accurate.
You're blaming Starbucks' woes on a non-employee complaint (about the employee's action), and that shows a willingness to ignore the employee's proximate role. That's bias.
The cases are similar in structure; you're just viewing them from an angle that makes them appear different to you.
To clarify, I meant that football players have known for years that playing football is bad for your body.
It's not just CTE. Look at Jim Otto. Look at Daryl Stingley and the amount of players who have been paralyzed as a result of playing football. Look at Ryan Shazier.
And with regard to CTE, I will use the comparison to smoking again.
It didn't take a genius to figure out that smoking was bad for your health long before somebody decided to slap a warning label on a pack of cigarettes.
It also didn't take a genius to figure out that two objects with great size colliding at great speed over and over again was going to be a problem for your long term health.
Now, while many of these injuries are not fatal, all you have to do is watch former players walk around (if they can walk) and see what damage they have done to themselves.
When these discussions come up, I always paste this article regarding Jason Taylor.
Dan Le Batard: Jason Taylors pain shows NFLs world of hurt | Miami Herald
Do you think he and others like him didn't know that stuff like this is a really bad idea?
Anyone wonder how close Peyton Manning came from doing tragic permanent damage to himself. And he continued to play. He'd probably play right now if he could.
But when your boss is forcing you back on the field, how much choice do you have if you want to stay employed?
And that is exactly how it worked until a few years ago
Thats not remotely true.
Most pressure comes from teammates and he player himself.
Youve seen games where they have to hide the players helmet to keep him off the field
One of the reasons I posted the Jason Taylor article is he could have been out with the injury and gotten paid.
The teams he played on werent close to contending for anything.
Yet, he chose to do that. Many others make similar choices
Read the article about his last game with the Browns. If you dont think coaches were pushing players back into the field, you are naive.
That is why the league now has independent doctors and the protocol...to take it out of the coaches hands
Crazy how things have changed. Was knocked unconscious playing for the Browns and only sat at 1 play. Sad.
Thats not remotely true.
Most pressure comes from teammates and he player himself.
Youve seen games where they have to hide the players helmet to keep him off the field
One of the reasons I posted the Jason Taylor article is he could have been out with the injury and gotten paid.
The teams he played on werent close to contending for anything.
Yet, he chose to do that. Many others make similar choices
Football players sell their health for millions of dollars nowadays. Same with athletes across many sports. Soccer actually has a worse CTE problem...
Im sure there are doctors who lied to players and told them they were ok to go and they werent. Im sure that happened. Im also sure guys were not examined thoroughly when they should have been. Im sure thats happened.
I would argue that players try to get back in and play against their doctors advice or lie to their doctor about symptoms far more than the doctor doing he wrong thing.
I have no way to know, but most player accounts are that way.
Now, imo, no doctor should ethically be doing what Jason Taylors doctor was doing whether Taylor wanted to do it or not.
And thats another issue.
Im sure there are doctors who lied to players and told them they were ok to go and they werent. Im sure that happened. Im also sure guys were not examined thoroughly when they should have been. Im sure thats happened.
I would argue that players try to get back in and play against their doctors advice or lie to their doctor about symptoms far more than the doctor doing he wrong thing.
Players know what they are getting into and they do it willingly....
Coal miners and firefighters know the very real and inherent danger in the work they do and they do it anyway. There are no guns being held to heads.
BUT, at some point we as a society have to decide "no, you can't do that anymore". We have to take the decision out of their hands and not make it an issue of freedoms anymore. Literally every law on the books is designed to take some freedom away from you to protect society writ large....