Is UT really without talent?

#51
#51
secking said:
Most of the time you see recruiting rankings, the potential doesn’t come to fruition until Jr and Sr years of that class even tho a lot expect them to contribute immediately. So, the leaders you look for come from the 2014 (redshirts) and 2015 classes. Both of those classes finished top 5.

UT will always out ‘talent’ 2/3 of the teams they face each year. Only teams on the schedule this year with more talent are Fla, UGA, Bama.
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Our team talent is not the problem, our administration talent is the problem...before anyone gets their jimmies rustled, i'm not referring to Pruitt and crew.
 
#55
#55
82_VOL_83 said:
This is like looking at a river slowly drying up and saying it will never rain. But some folks say, maybe it will rain. Then in two years you are saying, see, I told you it wouldn't rain.
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Uhhh... yea...uh, NO.

I have no means to predict what weather may do over two years. But anyone paying attention could see the trends in Jones' coaching. Jones' record prior to coming to UT built on beating nobodies and losing to almost every good team he played... was there to see.

You and the others were dogging him from day one.
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Nope. He had a clean slate until HE put his performance on record. There were a LOT of early signs even as everyone was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Former OL's questioned his "techniques". NFL caliber OL's were said to have basically ignored him. He badly overestimated opponents on several occasions resulting in attempts to "manage the game"... which he proved to be horrible at.

I didn't do that to him... it is who he proved to be.

The guy was trying to learn to coach in the SEC. We were giving him the benefit of the doubt.
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No. You were drinking Kool-Aid and making excuses rather than objectively watching what the guy did. That's the simple truth. You wanted to believe so badly... that you closed your eyes and wished with all your might for a dud to be a savior.

BTW, the SEC is no place to "learn to coach". A guy needs to be ready on day 1. He wasn't. You can have sympathy and I do... but that doesn't mean you can afford to have someone like him hurt the program.

That isn't defending him, that is saying wait and see what happens.
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BS. Here are a few of the common excuses given as he coached poorly, got blown out, and lost to at least one inferior team... while having some talent to work with. "He hasn't had time to install his system". "It is all Dooley's fault... he so badly damaged the players mentally". "There's no talent". "He needs a chance to get "his" players". "Those players are just {weak minded} and don't know how to take coaching". "It is Worley's fault". "It is fill in the blank's fault"

I was here. I wanted him to be good but the excuses started before he even coached a game by lowered expectations.

Your view is shallow and self centered.
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Right. Your argument is false but at least you can take a personal shot at me... right?

SJ, if you and your buddies want to "be mad" and sit there and say I told you so, well, it's rather stupid but go right ahead. It's stupid because NO ONE on this board giving Jones the benefit of the doubt had one single thing to do with how long he was kept.
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No. What I want... I don't speak for anyone else... is for people like you to STOP doing what you did with Jones. Have high expectations and open eyes. I hope Pruitt walks on water... but he needs to do it before we give him the "benefit of the doubt." That's all. Do you understand that? Do you understand your mistake with Jones?

I'm not innocent. I did the same thing with Fulmer over his last few years and then with Dooley. "Give him his fair chance and then condemn him". I tried to talk up the positive and avoid the obvious negatives. I was wrong... and so were you.
This warning and I told you so bull**** is just that, bull****.
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Those who ignore their past mistakes are doomed to repeat them.
 
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#56
#56
Some of the players on our team were highly rated coming out of HS.

We'll see what new coaches and new schemes will do for these guys.

I expect CJP and his crew to "size up" the current players this spring. Then they will have all summer to figure out how they can win games this fall.
 
#58
#58
BlueHalo said:
Out of high school I think we had a lot of talented kids. Not only did some of our kids not get developed properly under the previous staff, I honestly believe some of them got worse. This year will be a struggle, but I'm pumped anyway. GBO
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If those players were truly good once, they can be good again ... without Butch the talent buster.
 
#59
#59
Fresh off a winless SEC season, I don't see how anyone can look at the roster and see real talent. Not a single difference maker on the team unless it's Jennings who was missing last year or undeveloped talent that is yet to flourish. Some believe coaching and a new system on O and D will make a difference in the coming year, but these new coaches aren't miracle workers. Before we turn things around, a new culture of toughness and size of athletes will be necessary. I honestly don't see the turnaround coming in 2018 and would love to be wrong. The best we can hope to see this fall is some improvement in areas where we appeared so weak this past season. Hoping the team will adapt and embrace the changes and grow in confidence. Winning an actual conference game will be a start and I hope that comes sooner rather than later.
 
#60
#60
secking said:
Most of the time you see recruiting rankings, the potential doesn’t come to fruition until Jr and Sr years of that class even tho a lot expect them to contribute immediately. So, the leaders you look for come from the 2014 (redshirts) and 2015 classes. Both of those classes finished top 5.

UT will always out ‘talent’ 2/3 of the teams they face each year. Only teams on the schedule this year with more talent are Fla, UGA, Bama.
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Volfan76 said:
Our team talent is not the problem, our administration talent is the problem...before anyone gets their jimmies rustled, i'm not referring to Pruitt and crew.
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You witnessed how the UT administration handled the coaching hire didn't you, ok, so UT has major problems, what else is new?:)
 
#61
#61
jeff1vol said:
Tennessee has enough talent to compete in the SEC. The "we have no talent" line is nothing more than an excuse.
The players have had very little development and the expectations for them were obviously set pretty low by the previous staff. A great coach will win at least 7-8 games with this bunch.

Let's look at a few players that we know definitely have some "talent".
T. Smith, Byrd, Chandler, Warrior, Bituli, Shamburger, Kirkland... these guys will probably ALL be NFLer's. And that's just a few of the quality players on the roster.

There are plenty more that need to be developed into SEC players. I don't think talent is really the most glaring need.

I think coaching, development and confidence are the most glaring factors missing from this team the last few years.

IF CJP is the coach we all hope he is... It won't take long to get these guys winning SEC games.

BTW... WVU is NOWHERE near as talented as UT. They are much better coached on offense and their defense is "offensive".
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Pruitt has talked about adapting to the talent that you have; that's what you have to do in transition - make the best of what you have. The closest blockhead Butch ever got to doing something like that was simply being lucky enough to have Dobbs on the team - one of the few people who could make a failed but set in stone concept work in spite of itself.
 
#63
#63
TGVol said:
Our lack of talent problem was coaching talent, starting with Butch. Now that he is finally gone we will find out whether the remaining talent he recruited (which on paper looked good to great) can actually be properly developed, and hopefully quickly.
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Butch was big on recruiting by the numbers. The kids with the big numbers didn't necessarily (and in too many cases simply didn't) fit his system. They may (other than size preference) actually work better for Pruitt.

Who knows about the "diamonds in the rough" like Kongbo - supposedly all kinds of raw undeveloped talent but little real playing time. Maybe Pruitt and Co can develop that talent ... if it's there, because the last staff sure couldn't find and do anything with it.
 
#64
#64
D-rock said:
Year after year we are the “youngest” team in the history of college football. Amazing!
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That's probably the result of recruiting the wrong guys year after year and never adapting the system to who you do recruit. Just keep repeating the mistake and don't do anything with the guys who "didn't work out" - it insures a young team.
 
#67
#67
Ok fair question, if Dobbs had never come to UT, what would our records have been in the Jones era. Feel free to determine your own personal date of contract termination prior to 2017.
 
#68
#68
secking said:
Most of the time you see recruiting rankings, the potential doesn’t come to fruition until Jr and Sr years of that class even tho a lot expect them to contribute immediately. So, the leaders you look for come from the 2014 (redshirts) and 2015 classes. Both of those classes finished top 5.

UT will always out ‘talent’ 2/3 of the teams they face each year. Only teams on the schedule this year with more talent are Fla, UGA, Bama.
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Depends on how you define talent. If only basing it off recruiting rankings, then the last 2 classes hurt UT. However, I expect UT's next recruiting class to be a good one regardless of how the season plays out since Pruitt is a great recruiter and will get the first year recruiting bump that a lot of coaches seem to get. IMO recruiting is a decent way to see program trajectory. Here is the total number of 4* and 5* for UT, UGA, UF, USC, and Bama for the last 3 classes.
 

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#69
#69
volfannbama said:
Tennessee doesn't have alot of talent. The talent it does have is widely under developed.
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Dear Lord,
I just liked a post and agreed with you.
You - One of my biggest detractors on this board.
But, hey, when somebody is right they are right.
Clock - twice a day. Lol.
 
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#72
#72
At least were not Illinois. They get this heralded AD...then hire lovie Smith...who won ZERO big 10 games last year...and now have the 50th ranked class in 2018...or something. I thought at least hed bring in top 15. Its his 3rd year now. Even basketball. They've won. 2 big 10 games. So they are a combined 2-20 I think in big 10 football and basketball. That's bad.
 
#73
#73
MSME Vol said:
Ok fair question, if Dobbs had never come to UT, what would our records have been in the Jones era. Feel free to determine your own personal date of contract termination prior to 2017.
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It's pretty much a certainty the BJ era would have been shorter and with fewer wins - see last year without Dobbs as a benchmark.
 
#74
#74
Butch Jones played Worley in front of Dobbs. Hurd in front of Kamara. And Jumper in front of Bituli. Our entire roster is probably SEC title caliber at that rate 😂
 
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#75
#75
Vfl2407 said:
Dear Lord,
I just liked a post and agreed with you.
You - One of my biggest detractors on this board.
But, hey, when somebody is right they are right.
Clock - twice a day. Lol.
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You shouldnt feel happy only being right twice a day. Agree with me more and youll be right more. Lol
 
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