Is UT really without talent?

#27
#27
jeff1vol said:
From another thread... a potential 2 deep look.

DE Gooden 295/ Butler 285
DT Tuttle 310/ Alexis Johnson 305
DE Kongbo 280/ Phillips 280

OLB Austin Smith 240/ Jordan Allen 240
ILB Bituli 235/ Sapp 230
ILB Kirkland 235/ Bates 230
OLB D.Taylor 250/ Deandre Johnson 255

CB Shamburger/ Buchanan
CB Bird/ Labruzza
Nickel Osboure/ Bailey
S Abernathy/ Todd Kelly
S Warrior/ Theo Jackson

There is some talent here and guys like Crosby (prototypical NG) isn't even on the list. He was rated one of the BEST DT's in the Commonwealth of VA! Last I checked, VA has some talent.

DEVELOP, DEVELOP, DEVELOP...
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I’d be shocked if Pruitt lets Kongbo stay at DE. He is horrible at that position. If he starts the year at DE I would question Pruitt....
 
#28
#28
RollerVol said:
to me there is some talent left, just look at the roster and who's coming back...now, how that talent is developed and used is another matter...we're in limbo right now and will have to wait and see how it plays out...I mean, new coach, new recruits coming in, supposedly a new scheme will be instituted eventually...so much unknown right now, but heck we should be used to limbo by now...this staff will tell us more as the new season begins...and, as always...

GO VOLS!
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A new scheme should not be a problem. Most of the players on this team never were taught the last one.
Even with Dobbs and company the "system" was vague.
When a play started most of the time it ended with Dobbs doing his thing.
 
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#29
#29
sjt18 said:
Poor development and the fact that Jones' poor "caretaking" of the program resulted in a lot of guys having serious or even career changing injuries.

It is really hard not to be angry with some of you guys who now dog him who previously defended and excused him. You attacked some of us for pointing out the very things that "everyone" seems to see now. They were always there. ALWAYS. You just had to be willing to open your eyes and see.

PLEASE don't make the same mistake with Pruitt if he starts showing serious deficiencies as a HC.
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This is like looking at a river slowly drying up and saying it will never rain. But some folks say, maybe it will rain. Then in two years you are saying, see, I told you it wouldn't rain.

You and the others were dogging him from day one. The guy was trying to learn to coach in the SEC. We were giving him the benefit of the doubt. That isn't defending him, that is saying wait and see what happens. At the end of 2016 the benefit of the doubt had run out and 2017 was do or die. There were maybe two posters that were saying more time more time this year about half way through. If he had been fired at the end of year two, his buyout would have been more than it was now and a program having gone through Kiffin and Dooley would have not gotten anyone better than Jones to come and maybe worse. Your view is shallow and self centered.

SJ, if you and your buddies want to "be mad" and sit there and say I told you so, well, it's rather stupid but go right ahead. It's stupid because NO ONE on this board giving Jones the benefit of the doubt had one single thing to do with how long he was kept.

If you are going to go as far as to say we shouldn't have gone to games or bought orange gear, to that I say F OFF. I live out of town and only get home now for games and if I want to buy orange and wear it, it is none of your business.

This warning and I told you so bull**** is just that, bull****.
 
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#31
#31
I’d say we out talent Vandy, Kentucky, and Missouri. We’re pretty close to even with Florida and South Carolina but we’re years behind Alabama, Georgia, and Auburn.
 
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#33
#33
82_VOL_83 said:
This is like looking at a river slowly drying up and saying it will never rain. But some folks say, maybe it will rain. Then in two years you are saying, see, I told you it wouldn't rain.

You and the others were dogging him from day one. The guy was trying to learn to coach in the SEC. We were giving him the benefit of the doubt. That isn't defending him, that is saying wait and see what happens. At the end of 2016 the benefit of the doubt had run out and 2017 was do or die. There were maybe two posters that were saying more time more time this year about half way through. If he had been fired at the end of year two, his buyout would have been more than it was now and a program having gone through Kiffin and Dooley would have not gotten anyone better than Jones to come and maybe worse. Your view is shallow and self centered.

SJ, if you and your buddies want to "be mad" and sit there and say I told you so, well, it's rather stupid but go right ahead. It's stupid because NO ONE on this board giving Jones the benefit of the doubt had one single thing to do with how long he was kept.

If you are going to go as far as to say we shouldn't have gone to games or bought orange gear, to that I say F OFF. I live out of town and only get home now for games and if I want to buy orange and wear it, it is none of your business.

This warning and I told you so bull**** is just that, bull****.
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True there were a few guys badmouthing him from day one. However, there were alot of people, saying it after two years once he gave plenty of evidence that he wasnt a good coach. I would take his post more of a "why do we continue to make the same coach worship mistakes of the past" instead of a told you so.
 
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#34
#34
WVU has 14 NFL players on defense
Tennessee has 13 NFL players on defense

They are pumping out nearly as many guys to the NFL as we are. They are more talented than you realize they just don't have overrated players like McKenzie that makes you feel like we have talent


jeff1vol said:
Tennessee has enough talent to compete in the SEC. The "we have no talent" line is nothing more than an excuse.
The players have had very little development and the expectations for them were obviously set pretty low by the previous staff. A great coach will win at least 7-8 games with this bunch.

Let's look at a few players that we know definitely have some "talent".
T. Smith, Byrd, Chandler, Warrior, Bituli, Shamburger, Kirkland... these guys will probably ALL be NFLer's. And that's just a few of the quality players on the roster.

There are plenty more that need to be developed into SEC players. I don't think talent is really the most glaring need.

I think coaching, development and confidence are the most glaring factors missing from this team the last few years.

IF CJP is the coach we all hope he is... It won't take long to get these guys winning SEC games.

BTW... WVU is NOWHERE near as talented as UT. They are much better coached on offense and their defense is "offensive".
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#37
#37
volfannbama said:
I posted a while back the coaching records of several coaches generally considered good coaches. In nearly every case, you could tell by year two how it was going to go.
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Correct. History tells us that if an SEC coach doesn’t win 9 or more games by year 2, that he’ll never win an SEC title, which is the goal. If your head coach doesn’t win 9 games by year 2, he ain’t the right guy.
 
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#38
#38
volfannbama said:
True there were a few guys badmouthing him from day one. However, there were alot of people, saying it after two years once he gave plenty of evidence that he wasnt a good coach. I would take his post more of a "why do we continue to make the same coach worship mistakes of the past" instead of a told you so.
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And I would agree, but saying you are having a hard time not be angry with us is condescending at the least. I don't understand getting mad at someone on a message board unless they attack you personally, attack your family, or on a PF board and they want to get into a pissing contest about political issues. That doesn't include trolls from other teams.....blast away there.

I'm not sure we could have gotten rid of him after year 2 and come away with as good as we have now. I think that in the long run the coaching search debacle and recovery left us in better shape than if we had tried to fire him after two years on top of 2 other coaching failures. It hurt the team but showed a willingness to give whoever came here after a chance to right the ship.

I think because of CJP's resume, it will get a much shorter leash. However, if someone like him can't come in and do well in 2 years (show vast improvement and wins some decent games) and year 3 is just as dismal, he gone.
 
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#40
#40
KBVol said:
Correct. History tells us that if an SEC coach doesn’t win 9 or more games by year 2, that he’ll never win an SEC title, which is the goal. If your head coach doesn’t win 9 games by year 2, he ain’t the right guy.
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It's that third year that gets you. Looking at Fulmer and Dabo, they were meh year one (counting Fulmer's partial year) and then gangbusters year two and back to meh year 3.
 
#43
#43
#44
#44
KBVol said:
Correct. History tells us that if an SEC coach doesn’t win 9 or more games by year 2, that he’ll never win an SEC title, which is the goal. If your head coach doesn’t win 9 games by year 2, he ain’t the right guy.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, on paper, year 2 looks pretty bad when you look at how many Srs are lost after next year.
 
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#45
#45
sjt18 said:
Poor development and the fact that Jones' poor "caretaking" of the program resulted in a lot of guys having serious or even career changing injuries.

It is really hard not to be angry with some of you guys who now dog him who previously defended and excused him. You attacked some of us for pointing out the very things that "everyone" seems to see now. They were always there. ALWAYS. You just had to be willing to open your eyes and see.

PLEASE don't make the same mistake with Pruitt if he starts showing serious deficiencies as a HC.
Click to expand...

Seems like you're saying you detected in Year 1 ("ALWAYS").

What deficiencies are you expecting to see in Year 1-2 from/in CJP; what have you seen, if any, during these first weeks?
 
#46
#46
Our lack of talent problem was coaching talent, starting with Butch. Now that he is finally gone we will find out whether the remaining talent he recruited (which on paper looked good to great) can actually be properly developed, and hopefully quickly.
 
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#48
#48
82_VOL_83 said:
And I would agree, but saying you are having a hard time not be angry with us is condescending at the least. I don't understand getting mad at someone on a message board unless they attack you personally, attack your family, or on a PF board and they want to get into a pissing contest about political issues. That doesn't include trolls from other teams.....blast away there.

I'm not sure we could have gotten rid of him after year 2 and come away with as good as we have now. I think that in the long run the coaching search debacle and recovery left us in better shape than if we had tried to fire him after two years on top of 2 other coaching failures. It hurt the team but showed a willingness to give whoever came here after a chance to right the ship.

I think because of CJP's resume, it will get a much shorter leash. However, if someone like him can't come in and do well in 2 years (show vast improvement and wins some decent games) and year 3 is just as dismal, he gone.
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Yeah, i dont get that. Nothing said on here makes me mad.

As far as getting rid of him after year two, i agree. I was widely criticised for saying he isnt a good coach but deserves another year based on his accomplisments in year 3-4.

But we did know in year two he wasnt the guy.
 
#49
#49
Tennessee faced an incredible amount of injuries last year, it was not talent development or lack of talent. I don't remember any excuses CBJ made coming into the job but CJP is floating as many as Dooley.
 
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#50
#50
swampfoxfan said:
Tennessee faced an incredible amount of injuries last year, it was not talent development or lack of talent. I don't remember any excuses CBJ made coming into the job but CJP is floating as many as Dooley.
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I haven't heard any. I clearly remember him saying that his expectation is to win every game he plays.
 
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