In Responding To The So Called "NegaVols"...

#55
#55
vollygirl said:
So what's best for the player doesn't have anything to do with it.
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Not taking a side exclusively on the Dobbs issue, but just in answer to this statement, team comes before player. Unless we're talking about something that could permanently harm the individual player, the needs of the team trump the needs of said individual player. Football is a team sport. Everyone works together to pull their weight.
 
#57
#57
Cletus P Fulmer said:
Well some of you guys have endured for quite awhile haven't you?
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Yup.

Lurked back before I joined for a couple years too. Even when the team was decent people here were still miserable.

Guarantee you even if this team wins the national championship next year there will be threads about wanting to fire someone or threads about worrying what Butch's new buyout will be.

Us Vol fans are a weird bunch.
 
#58
#58
Earlier on Espn radio, they were discussing Blake Simms.
It was said that he doesn't shine until the lights go on (game time)
and Alabama had no idea what they had with him.
Sounds familiar.
So if we have to hear about the whole "Dobbs not starting = bad coaching" thing again,
Could you experts also head down to Bama and let Saban know that he has no idea how to coach in the SEC.
 
#59
#59
BearCat204 said:
My bama generics ended with me
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Shut the front door.

No, seriously. I mean shut the door. That is hard core crap I admire and you crossed the line. You need to post a "go gatas" or something, and quick. Cause I can't be a fan.
 
#60
#60
chargervol said:
Earlier on Espn radio, they were discussing Blake Simms.
It was said that he doesn't shine until the lights go on (game time)
and Alabama had no idea what they had with him.
Sounds familiar.
So if we have to hear about the whole "Dobbs not starting = bad coaching" thing again,
Could you experts also head down to Bama and let Saban know that he has no idea how to coach in the SEC.
Click to expand...

Alabama fans are no different. On another forum, there was a Bama fan complaining about Saban doing a piss poor job this year after their 1 point win over Arkansas.
 
#62
#62
Weezer said:
Not taking a side exclusively on the Dobbs issue, but just in answer to this statement, team comes before player. Unless we're talking about something that could permanently harm the individual player, the needs of the team trump the needs of said individual player. Football is a team sport. Everyone works together to pull their weight.
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I agree with that. Which is why, when our starting quarterback went down, Dobbs had to be played.

I honestly think Jones was going to try to get six wins and a bowl game without having to play Dobbs, so that he could do his academics and football. And when that didn't happen, he put Dobbs in and here we are.
 
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#64
#64
Titans4Vols said:
Alabama fans are no different. On another forum, there was a Bama fan complaining about Saban doing a piss poor job this year after their 1 point win over Arkansas.
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And the very next week they beat aTm 59-0. Their closest contest since was a victory over LSU.

Point is, these things are fluid. Oklahoma was a "shoe-in" for the playoff when UT played them in Sept. They're now a 4-loss team. Things change.
 
#65
#65
Cletus P Fulmer said:
In a round about way perhaps...but no one of the negas has definitively stated what Butch could have done in prep or in game strategy other than the usual argument..."He didn't start Dobbs"...not good enough for me.
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He could have reined in his OC's bad playcalling numerous times, after all, this is his offense. Clock management has been an issue more than once. He's known all season about the OL but we saw very little done to improve their play. You argue it is what it is, yet other coaches find ways to overcome these obstacles.

It's not about being negative. It's about being realistic. Butch has earned some of his criticism. It comes with that big salary. Yet for some reason some on here think criticizing a coach is blasphemy, yet they're willing to throw players under the bus. Remind me, player or coach, which is the true Vol again? So you're not arguing against negavols as you are a negavol. Or, if you prefer, you're a coach fan, not a Vol fan. Don't like that reference? Then open up your eyes and realize Butch is just a paid professional. He is not the football team.

The guy's going to make mistakes. He still has a chance to learn and bounce back. But please don't pretend that he's coached a perfect season. He's made mistakes, and it's perfectly okay to point those mistakes out, to even be frustrated by them. To believe otherwise is ignorant.
 
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#66
#66
Boca Vol said:
And the very next week they beat aTm 59-0. Their closest contest since was a victory over LSU.

Point is, these things are fluid. Oklahoma was a "shoe-in" for the playoff when UT played them in Sept. They're now a 4-loss team. Things change.
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I get a kick out of the LK praise.
I believe he is doing a good OC job at Bama but to hear the drooling faction of the media, you would think Bama had a losing record before Lane arrived.
 
#67
#67
Titans4Vols said:
Alabama fans are no different. On another forum, there was a Bama fan complaining about Saban doing a piss poor job this year after their 1 point win over Arkansas.
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I miss the old "ten win seasons aren't what they used to be" debates around here. :)
 
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#68
#68
chargervol said:
I get a kick out of the LK praise.
I believe he is doing a good OC job at Bama but to hear the drooling faction of the media, you would think Bama had a losing record before Lane arrived.
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No LK praise. Just stating the facts.
 
#70
#70
vollygirl said:
I agree with that. Which is why, when our starting quarterback went down, Dobbs had to be played.

I honestly think Jones was going to try to get six wins and a bowl game without having to play Dobbs, so that he could do his academics and football. And when that didn't happen, he put Dobbs in and here we are.
Click to expand...

My only issue is with the bolded. If Butch's goal for this team was only six wins and a bowl game, then he cheated them. You play every game to win. You don't pick an arbitrary number and say, "If I hit this mark, then it's okay to lose the rest." Now, maybe that's not how you mean it, but it comes across that way imo. If Butch knew we had a better chance of winning UGA by playing Dobbs over Peterman when Worley goy hurt and chose to protect Dobbs redshirt instead, I think it was a bad choice. That's putting the player before the team. He cheated the rest of the team if he knowingly did that. (Everyone please note the bolded "if" before you fly off the handle.)
 
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#71
#71
EVERY coach makes great or bad calls in every game...its just part of the job...sometimes its execution, sometimes its a bad coaching error, sometimes its just plain bad luck or a bad refs call, etc that changes the momentum of the game..

Tennessee's issues (coaching and depth aside) since 2008 is that we have those issues PLUS we seemingly lose our own momentum on back breaking plays (like the fumble vs Florida)

Florida is the only game this season that I would say we shouldve won, and we lost due to trying to take a chance to go downfield when we couldve just been MORE conserative and probably wouldve won...

the UGA and Mizzou games we had our chances but simply lost to better teams with better depth...Mizzou comes down to a bad turnover of the hands of our WR while going in for a possible GW TD...UGA, we were moving the ball at will vs the best team in the East and carving them up until injuries hurt us..

don't see what Coach Jones couldve done in those two games to change the outcome...

Bama and Ole Miss were too talented and deep for us as as well..OKlahoma I think our 100 yd int. return was the difference in that game, along with a very questionable ref call on the fumble recovery..

those are just the breaks...Coaches from Saban to Spurrier to whomever have the same issues from time to time...

Anyone who has sat thru our games the last 5 seasons surely would see we are heading in the right direction...

Next year we can compete and win the East with some breaks, but a 8-4 season would be pretty good as well






Cletus P Fulmer said:
Who seem to revel in human Big Orange misery may I make a few rather important points. It is the job of every head coach to prepare his team and have them ready to win each game. All any coach can do is put his team in the position to win be that strategy and practice game prep. At some point the players must execute and play a near flawless game in order to carry out the plan and win the game. Now let us examine the 2 games possibly 3 that these so called nega folk seem to be wallowing in misery over.


1. Georgia-if Worley doesn't spend most of the 3rd quarter sidelined we may have dominated said quarter and won. Nothing to be altered here. At this time of the season Justin was fairly healthy although this game pretty much sent him on the road to season ending injuries. In addition the Hurd fumble hurt but those are the breaks of the game. What could Butch have done differently here?

2. Florida- Once again team is prepared and D dominates. Justin has a bad game. Look I think the world of the kid and I don't think he lost the game for us...but he didn't do the things offensively to WIN the game. Once again Butch has us in position to win so what on earth could he possibly have done different?

3. Missouri- Gary Pinkel is a great coach...has been there 14 years and knows his kids. He had them prepared for what Josh could do to them...most great coaches do that...and in my mind Pinkel is a great coach. Malone's dropped pass/interception was huge here as if we score we are up in the 4th. Once again the breaks of the game...player error...human error. Even those here who say Butch won't take chances would have to be impressed with the fake field goal pass play for a TD. Butch rolled the dice...he did everything to win.


So my question is...and I am hoping for some logical responses...what could Butch have done?
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#72
#72
Weezer said:
My only issue is with the bolded. If Butch's goal for this team was only six wins and a bowl game, then he cheated them. You play every game to win. You don't pick an arbitrary number and say, "If I hit this mark, then it's okay to lose the rest." Now, maybe that's not how you mean it, but it comes across that way imo. If Butch knew we had a better chance of winning UGA by playing Dobbs over Peterman when Worley goy hurt and chose to protect Dobbs redshirt instead, I think it was a bad choice. That's putting the player before the team. He cheated the rest of the team if he knowingly did that. (Everyone please note the bolded "if" before you fly off the handle.)
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Six wins to get in a bowl game isn't exactly an arbitrary number is it?
 
#73
#73
Weezer said:
He could have reined in his OC's bad playcalling numerous times, after all, this is his offense. Clock management has been an issue more than once. He's known all season about the OL but we saw very little done to improve their play. You argue it is what it is, yet other coaches find ways to overcome these obstacles.

It's not about being negative. It's about being realistic. Butch has earned some of his criticism. It comes with that big salary. Yet for some reason some on here think criticizing a coach is blasphemy, yet they're willing to throw players under the bus. Remind me, player or coach, which is the true Vol again? So you're not arguing against negavols as you are a negavol. Or, if you prefer, you're a coach fan, not a Vol fan. Don't like that reference? Then open up your eyes and realize Butch is just a paid professional. He is not the football team.

The guy's going to make mistakes. He still has a chance to learn and bounce back. But please don't pretend that he's coached a perfect season. He's made mistakes, and it's perfectly okay to point those mistakes out, to even be frustrated by them. To believe otherwise is ignorant.
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+1
 
#74
#74
Weezer said:
He could have reined in his OC's bad playcalling numerous times, after all, this is his offense. Clock management has been an issue more than once. He's known all season about the OL but we saw very little done to improve their play. You argue it is what it is, yet other coaches find ways to overcome these obstacles.

It's not about being negative. It's about being realistic. Butch has earned some of his criticism. It comes with that big salary. Yet for some reason some on here think criticizing a coach is blasphemy, yet they're willing to throw players under the bus. Remind me, player or coach, which is the true Vol again? So you're not arguing against negavols as you are a negavol. Or, if you prefer, you're a coach fan, not a Vol fan. Don't like that reference? Then open up your eyes and realize Butch is just a paid professional. He is not the football team.

The guy's going to make mistakes. He still has a chance to learn and bounce back. But please don't pretend that he's coached a perfect season. He's made mistakes, and it's perfectly okay to point those mistakes out, to even be frustrated by them. To believe otherwise is ignorant.
Click to expand...

Weezy, well said.:good!:
 
#75
#75
Weezer said:
He could have reined in his OC's bad playcalling numerous times, after all, this is his offense. Clock management has been an issue more than once. He's known all season about the OL but we saw very little done to improve their play. You argue it is what it is, yet other coaches find ways to overcome these obstacles.

It's not about being negative. It's about being realistic. Butch has earned some of his criticism. It comes with that big salary. Yet for some reason some on here think criticizing a coach is blasphemy, yet they're willing to throw players under the bus. Remind me, player or coach, which is the true Vol again? So you're not arguing against negavols as you are a negavol. Or, if you prefer, you're a coach fan, not a Vol fan. Don't like that reference? Then open up your eyes and realize Butch is just a paid professional. He is not the football team.

The guy's going to make mistakes. He still has a chance to learn and bounce back. But please don't pretend that he's coached a perfect season. He's made mistakes, and it's perfectly okay to point those mistakes out, to even be frustrated by them. To believe otherwise is ignorant.
Click to expand...

Great post
 
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