I just don't see how Butch Jones

#53
#53
gunner said:
They aren't rivals in football. UT has only lost to Memphis one time in their entire history.
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Some seem to use the term, "rival" a bit loosely. There needs to be some general guidelines. Just because a unique trophy is passed back and forth, or some sports journalist declares it a rivalry? I see what you have displayed in the counter, but I am not buying.

You have to play that team at least semi-regularly, or it is not worth mentioning. And 1 win in 23? The trophy might as well be a roll of Charmin extra absorbent.
 
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#54
#54
TNnative said:
Some seem to use the term, "rival" a bit loosely. There needs to be some general guidelines. Just because a unique trophy is passed back and forth, or some sports journalist declares it a rivalry? I see what you have displayed in the counter, but I am not buying.

You have to play that team at least semi-regularly, or it is not worth mentioning. And 1 win in 23? The trophy might as well be a roll of Charmin extra absorbent.
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Agree, my definition of Rival is you would rather beat them than anybody on your schedule and they feel same about you.
So not many true rivals in SEC
Alabama vs Auburn
Florida vs Georgia
Vandy rather beat us than anybody but they are low on our list.
We would rather beat UF or Bama but we are not high on their list year in and out.
UF owns us about similar to us and UK hate to type that but it is what it is.
 
#56
#56
competition for the same objective or for superiority in the same field.

Some people don't understand what the word rivalry means. Al, Fl, Ga are our primary rivals with AL Gavin social national recognition.
 
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#57
#57
Everyone will define "rival" differently. And that's perfectly fine. Your point of view is yours, and no one can deny you that.

For me, a rival is any team with which we have a history of competition through a series lasting some significant period of time.

Now, none of those terms are clearly defined. Intentionally so, because to define them too narrowly might force the elimination of an otherwise important rivalry:
  • "History": Must there be a prize, like the "Battle for the Barrel." or a saved date, like the "Third Saturday in October"? No. But those trappings, external symbols of the historic importance of the annual meeting, they certainly help define it as a rivalry. In that sense, Bama and Kentucky are our most clearly-expressed rivalries.
  • "Competition": Does that mean it has to be even, 42 wins to 42 wins to 3 ties? No. It can be lopsided and still be a rivalry. Almost everyone would agree Florida is an important rival, and yet that series is just as imbalanced in the past decade as Vandy or Kentucky. But they're all valid rivals. So perhaps sometimes it's not so much the competition on the scoreboard as the competition between the fan bases. If you hate (or just really, really dislike) them, that's a sign of rivalry, too. Using that metric, Bama, Florida, Georgia, Auburn, Kentucky, Vandy, and even South Carolina have all grown to be rivals. Just as Georgia Tech, Ole Miss and Miss St were in the past.
  • "Significant period of time": Mizzou is not a rival, even though we owe them some payback. We simply haven't competed with them long enough for it to count at that level. South Carolina is; some would say "barely," even though we've been in division with them for 24 years now. All our other rivals, we reach back generations with them.
So define it however you wish. I am a huge fan of the pageantry, the history and relationships of college football, and so I cast my net fairly wide.

We have a lot of rivals, in my view.
 
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#58
#58
Vol logic said:
competition for the same objective or for superiority in the same field.

Some people don't understand what the word rivalry means. Al, Fl, Ga are our primary rivals with AL Gavin social national recognition.
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Using that definition, every team in the East, and potentially every team in the SEC, is an annual rival. Because we're all competing--some of us better than others--for the Conference championship. It doesn't say "competing well". :)

More power to you if that's your definition; it leaves out other valuable rivalries like Florda-Florida State and Georgia-Georgia Tech, of course, but you certainly have the right to define it however you wish. :hi:
 
#59
#59
Rifleman said:
Frankly, after Dooley it was going to be hard for a lot of people here to muster belief in any coach without a proven SEC track record in recruiting and in-game decisions.

I am trusting Butch more and more. He seems to know that you can never be satisfied and how easily it can all fall apart.

B) Butch canned Jancek, a friend, who had done a reasonably good job and who was working below market value because he knew that Jancek was not a championship-caliber coach. That sets the bar at the top for the other coaches and for Butch himself.
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My thoughts, too. The decline of the program was such that we simply weren't a coaching draw. Coming from a minor conference, I expected Jones to be on a learning curve.

Replacing Jancek is a sign of maturing in the SEC and progressing towards a goal of championship play. The only game we were really out of last year was Arkansas...we haven't been able to say that in a long time. Seeing players projected to draft highly deciding to stay for another year is an incredibly positive sign; the team is buying what Jones is selling. If he can put it together this year and get to Atlanta - win or lose there - recruiting should continue to be excellent and we'll be in the 'elite team' conversation as we were in the 90s.
 
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#60
#60
NCFisher said:
My thoughts, too. The decline of the program was such that we simply weren't a coaching draw. Coming from a minor conference, I expected Jones to be on a learning curve.

Replacing Jancek is a sign of maturing in the SEC and progressing towards a goal of championship play. The only game we were really out of last year was Arkansas...we haven't been able to say that in a long time. If Jones can put it together this year and get to Atlanta - win or lose there - recruiting should continue to be excellent and we'll be in the 'elite team' conversation as we were in the 90s.
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Piggybacking on your Jancek point, I feel that the results of replacing Bajakian last season, not so gently pushed Butch towards the realization that doing it all the way his way with his people wouldn't get him to reach his goal. Bajakian, of course left on his own but I'll maintain it was a result of a change in emphasis by Butch...and he wasn't on board.
 
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#61
#61
NCFisher said:
My thoughts, too. The decline of the program was such that we simply weren't a coaching draw. Coming from a minor conference, I expected Jones to be on a learning curve.

Replacing Jancek is a sign of maturing in the SEC and progressing towards a goal of championship play. The only game we were really out of last year was Arkansas...we haven't been able to say that in a long time. Seeing players projected to draft highly deciding to stay for another year is an incredibly positive sign; the team is buying what Jones is selling. If he can put it together this year and get to Atlanta - win or lose there - recruiting should continue to be excellent and we'll be in the 'elite team' conversation as we were in the 90s.
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Very good post. I absolutely agree about how he's handled staff thus far.
 
#62
#62
butchna said:
Piggybacking on your Jancek point, I feel that the results of replacing Bajakian last season, not so gently pushed Butch towards the realization that doing it all the way his way with his people wouldn't get him to reach his goal. Bajakian, of course left on his own but I'll maintain it was a result of a change in emphasis by Butch...and he wasn't on board.
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I've heard there was a conversation between them that led to him leaving. Not a firing but a serious discussion.
 
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#63
#63
ReaderVol said:
I've heard there was a conversation between them that led to him leaving. Not a firing but a serious discussion.
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Made the most sense. Never believed that NFL QB coach was the dream job that trumped what he had.
 
#64
#64
TNnative said:
Cooking up a big crow for you. Any preference on sauces?
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No need to serve it up now, I already had some back in 2013.

Volgrad98 said:
I've got to admit, when Coach Jones was hired I believed that there was no way he was going to be able to recruit in the SEC. From what he and his staff are doing so far not only are they competing for recruits, they're winning the recruiting battles. Consider me a believer.
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#67
#67
08Vol said:
Everyone acting like we've already won the East in 2016 reminds me of when the fans were carrying roses after beating UF in 2001. Bringing this thread back up and going "lol people thought Butch was going to be bad but he's actually really good" ignores that Butch is 1-8 against our rivals and still doesn't have a win over a top 10 team
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Interesting.

Now what does any of that have to do with 2016?
 
#68
#68
Volgrad98 said:
No need to serve it up now, I already had some back in 2013.
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I watched his press conference on the day he got here, and was sold. You were concerned that he was not who we needed, and said so.

One of us was not getting off the hook on it. But we both want the best for the program. When you started this thread, I remember how ragged the depth chart looked. Doubts were reasonable. However, somebody with time on their hands will throw it back at you sooner or later. It's VolNation.
 
#70
#70
08Vol said:
I wasn't referring to just this thread, even tho this thread is more blatant than others. I think too many people see our top 10 or 15 preseason ranking and thinks that means the same thing as being ranked there in December.
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Then post in a thread about Jones' W\L record or start your own.
 
#72
#72
NCFisher said:
My thoughts, too. The decline of the program was such that we simply weren't a coaching draw. Coming from a minor conference, I expected Jones to be on a learning curve.

Replacing Jancek is a sign of maturing in the SEC and progressing towards a goal of championship play. The only game we were really out of last year was Arkansas...we haven't been able to say that in a long time. Seeing players projected to draft highly deciding to stay for another year is an incredibly positive sign; the team is buying what Jones is selling. If he can put it together this year and get to Atlanta - win or lose there - recruiting should continue to be excellent and we'll be in the 'elite team' conversation as we were in the 90s.
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Agreed. Basically CBJ has the program to a point where it has a real shot at winning the East, and that will then solidify the program (through continued recruiting) for years to come. Pretty solid for four years assuming he gets it done.
 
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#73
#73
KBVol said:
lol. Me either. We have 3 rivals....Bama, Florida and Georgia.
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I don't know how old you are but before the expansion and Divisions, UT always played Auburn in September, Alabama on the Third Saturday in October and Ole Miss, Kentucky and Vanderbilt to finish the season. Back then they played only 11 games and 6 conference games. The 5 that I just mentioned and the sixth would rotate between UF, MSU, LSU, and Georgia. Auburn and Alabama were the biggest games of the season each year. The last three games of the season against Ole Miss, Kentucky and Vanderbilt would ensure bowl eligibility along with a few of the 5 non conference games.
 
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#74
#74
butchna said:
Beat South Carolina when they ended up fourth. :hmm: And they were considered "rivals". :hmm:
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Youre right. He's already proven to me a lot of things. That's all I'm gonna say :). Very much happy with everything he's doing and has *already* done.
 
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#75
#75
08Vol said:
Everyone acting like we've already won the East in 2016 reminds me of when the fans were carrying roses after beating UF in 2001. Bringing this thread back up and going "lol people thought Butch was going to be bad but he's actually really good" ignores that Butch is 1-8 against our rivals and still doesn't have a win over a top 10 team
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Man, you're a cry baby. I bet you are the type of person that could be handed a $20 bill and b!tch because it's not a $50 bill. Do you miss Dooley or something?
 
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