How many quality wins does Butch have since coming to UT?

#51
#51
Hacksaw said:
It's been said that Tennesseans hate losing more than we love winning. I would bet that most of us can relate to that.
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That's not just Tennesseans, Hacksaw, that's human nature. A Nobel-prize winning economist included it in his model called "prospect theory." More in the public eye, former tennis champion Jimmy Connors was quoted as saying the same thing, almost word for word ("I hate to lose more than I love to win").

So yeah, it's a pretty normal thing. :)
 
#52
#52
Counting last year's Georgia win (against a 7-5 team that only happened due to pure luck) or any of the bowls is pathetic.

The list is '13 South Carolina, '15 Georgia, and '16 Florida. That's it.

Which is more than offset by the bad losses: 13/14 Florida, 13/16 Vanderbilt, '15 Arkansas, and '16 South Carolina.
 
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#53
#53
SGMVols said:
Counting last year's Georgia win (against a 7-5 team that only happened due to pure luck) or any of the bowls is pathetic.

The list is '13 South Carolina, '15 Georgia, and '16 Florida. That's it.

Which is more than offset by the bad losses: 13/14 Florida, 13/16 Vanderbilt, '15 Arkansas, and '16 South Carolina.
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It was pure luck we played them tight enough to have a chance to win it at the end?

I have much to learn wise one
 
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#54
#54
SGMVols said:
Counting last year's Georgia win (against a 7-5 team that only happened due to pure luck) or any of the bowls is pathetic.

The list is '13 South Carolina, '15 Georgia, and '16 Florida. That's it.

Which is more than offset by the bad losses: 13/14 Florida, 13/16 Vanderbilt, '15 Arkansas, and '16 South Carolina.
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For signature wins, I would agree. But for quality wins you can others such as the bowls, VT, etc.
 
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#59
#59
When you beat a higher ranked team, win over a top rival or take a game from a team you're projected to lose to, it's a good win, right?

When you lose to a less talented/lower ranked team, drop a game you're projected to win or blow a solid lead to lose a winnable game, it's a bad loss, right?

While good wins make fans happy, bad losses erase their goodwill. So a coach would want to stay on the right side of the good win:bad loss ratio. Not sure how CBJ stacks up, but it's somewhat quantifiable if you define the variables.
 
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#61
#61
LA Vol said:
When you beat a higher ranked team, win over a top rival or take a game from a team you're projected to lose to, it's a good win, right?

When you lose to a less talented/lower ranked team, drop a game you're projected to win or blow a solid lead to lose a winnable game, it's a bad loss, right?

While good wins make fans happy, bad losses erase their goodwill. So a coach would want to stay on the right side of the good win:bad loss ratio. Not sure how CBJ stacks up, but it's somewhat quantifiable if you define the variables.
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i don't think anyone really denies the fact that there are marks on both sides of that ledger.
 
#62
#62
Hacksaw said:
He's lead us to 3 bowl wins in a row for the first time in 20 years. He beat a VT team that finished with 10 wins and a #16 national ranking -- in front of the largest audience to ever watch an American football game. Was that a big game?

The more important question to me is are we getting better under Butch? And I think the evidence suggests that we are. I think if not for the unusually high number of injuries to key players last season, we win a couple more games and finish with 11 wins. That would make our last four seasons look like this...

2013: 5 wins
2014: 7 wins
2015: 9 wins
2016: 11 wins (-2 in reality due to the injuries, IMO)

He's recruiting quality kids who are staying out of trouble (for the most part), taking care of their academics and generally representing the school well. As long as we keep going along like this, I feel like Butch gives us as good a chance to win as any coach we could realistically hope to get to replace him.
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Mr. Hacksaw,

Sir your message makes since and is completely rational! Thank you kind sir I hope you spouse gives you some extra milk and cookies tonight before bed.
 
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#65
#65
stevenrich2003 said:
Mr. Hacksaw,

Sir your message makes since and is completely rational! Thank you kind sir I hope you spouse gives you some extra milk and cookies tonight before bed.
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Ha! Fat chance of her doing that. I do appreciate the kind words, though.

But please, "Mr. Hacksaw" is my father. Call me Hack.
 
#66
#66
IMO:

2013 South Carolina (A bit forgotten how big of a win this was; it was during Butch's first year, South Carolina was #11 at the time and a 7.5 point favorite. Probably the most points Tennessee has gotten in a win in a long time.)
2015 Georgia (slight underdog at home to a top 20 team)
2016 Florida (kind of a stretch since we were slightly favored, but given how long the streak was I have to put it on here)

Conversely, you can create another category called "unacceptable losses," of which there are two and they both occurred last year:

2016 South Carolina
2016 Vanderbilt
 
#67
#67
IknoxvolsI said:
Freak, was Cincy a quality win for Dooley?
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Cincinnati did finish the season ranked that year, barely.

As for Butch, I do think a win over a P5 team that finished No. 16 in the final polls is a quality win. You disagree?
 
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#69
#69
I don't know how many quality wins he has since coming to UT, but I know the one against Florida last year was the qualitiest.
 
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#72
#72
Hacksaw said:
He's lead us to 3 bowl wins in a row for the first time in 20 years. He beat a VT team that finished with 10 wins and a #16 national ranking -- in front of the largest audience to ever watch an American football game. Was that a big game?

The more important question to me is are we getting better under Butch? And I think the evidence suggests that we are. I think if not for the unusually high number of injuries to key players last season, we win a couple more games and finish with 11 wins. That would make our last four seasons look like this...

2013: 5 wins
2014: 7 wins
2015: 9 wins
2016: 11 wins (-2 in reality due to the injuries, IMO)

He's recruiting quality kids who are staying out of trouble (for the most part), taking care of their academics and generally representing the school well. As long as we keep going along like this, I feel like Butch gives us as good a chance to win as any coach we could realistically hope to get to replace him.
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This^^^^, but therein lies the problem of attaining the mountain top, under Butch Jones, does it not?:hi:
 
#73
#73
Freak said:
I understand the argument, but I hate it. I don't think Dooley is the measuring stick but I do think you have to consider the starting point.
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Through the first 2-3 years absolutely.

The more you hear about how bad Dooley was from last year and going forward, the more it tells me Jones has topped out. Then it depends on if your good with that. Some are, others not so much.
 
#74
#74
To the actual games based on where UT was at the time of the win,
USC 13'
UGA 15'
FL 16'

With USC being the more impressive given the roster. He was on more equal footing on the other 2.
 
#75
#75
BeecherVol said:
Through the first 2-3 years absolutely.

The more you hear about how bad Dooley was from last year and going forward, the more it tells me Jones has topped out. Then it depends on if your good with that. Some are, others not so much.
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Dooley doesn't factor into the conversation anymore. Only as a starting point.

Butch's first three years were 5 wins, 7 wins, 9 wins. Last year we repeated 9 wins. Does that mean we've topped out? Maybe, maybe not. It will be interesting to see how this year plays out with new staff members and several large holes to fill.
 
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