How many FRESHMEN break the starting lineup this season?

#26
#26
norrislakevol said:
Yep. Williams is a Julio Jones clone IMO. Very Physical and dominating with blazing speed. If he can keep a good attitude then he is college ready right now.
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Minus the injury recovery. A healthy P. Williams would probably be penciled in as a starter by most people (especially with Pearson's return up in the air).
 
#27
#27
sjt18 said:
It is possible but I think you are underestimating a couple of factors. One is experience. But the other is development. There is a BIG physical leap from HS at any level to Division 1 football and especially the SEC. The guys who Jones and staff have now been developing for 2 or 3 years have a big advantage over most incoming Fr. It isn't an advantage that is likely to be overcome within the season.

There is also another factor. Jones indicates that he really doesn't want to play that many young, under-developed, and inexperienced players. One reason may be that all of those combine to significantly increase their chances of injury.
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One thing about KMac though is that he is as strong as a 25 year old NFL defensive tackle right now. Squats well over 600lbs and can rep 225 at least 34 times. That is ridiculous strength.
 
#29
#29
ksgovols said:
I hope zero. Two deep is much more likely. Starting multiple freshmen isn't conducive to 9 and 10 win seasons for the most part.
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If Barnett was coming in this season, would you hope he wasn't starting? How about if Cam Sutton was coming in as a freshmen?

This idea that starting freshmen is bad ASSUMES they are not extremely talented. I personally have no problem with starting 3 freshmen if they are the best we have at the position. Our team has 3 holes right now on the depth chart. MLB, RT, and DT. No reason we can't plug in the talented youngsters. I'd rather have Darrin Kirkland at MLB than Bynum. I'd rather have Kahlil at DT than anyone else on the roster. I'd rather have Richmond at tackle than anyone else on the roster as well.

You don't recruit 5 star freshmen to sit behind 3 star seniors.
 
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#30
#30
McKenzie is such a dominant player, he'll be in the starting lineup from Day 1. I think Kirkland will be in the lineup by the UF game or before, and by
midseason Richmond will start at one of the tackle spots.
 
#32
#32
08Vol said:
I don't see DR as a 5 yr player. I think one of the ways we got him to flip is knowing he wasn't going to have to sit a season behind Tunsil. A 5* should be able to start as a frosh, that's part of the ranking system
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They were recruiting him to start at RT this season and move him to the left after Tunsil left. Drew is already on the record that he plans to compete for one of the starting tackle spots. And I'm sure Butch plans on it as well given how hard he recruited him.

I'm gonna go out on a limb right now and say that I'll be SHOCKED if Drew isn't starting at RT or LT by the Florida game.
 
#33
#33
Freshmen who will start at least one game this year: - Khalil Mckenzie, Darrin Kirkland Jr., Drew Richmond (he won't start for most of the season, but I think he gets at least one start in before the season is over, either from injury, or because one of our tackles ends up being ineffective).

Freshmen who will spend a decent bit of the season in the two deep (but won't start): Quentin Dormady, Preston Williams, Kyle Phillips (I think he works his way into the 2-deep (or 2.5 deep, since Maggitt isn't strictly a DE) by midseason), and Shy Tuttle.

Tommy Townsend will be the backup punter, but it seems like it is cheating to list a punter on the 2 deep. Sheriron could overtake Dormady, but I suspect that Quentin will be the backup for at least the first half of the season, and so Sheriron doesn't quality for the list, given the "most of" clause.
 
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#34
#34
turambar85 said:
Freshmen who will start at least one game this year: - Khalil Mckenzie, Darrin Kirkland Jr., Drew Richmond (he won't start for most of the season, but I think he gets at least one start in before the season is over, either from injury, or because one of our tackles ends up being ineffective).

Freshmen who will spend a decent bit of the season in the two deep (but won't start): Quentin Dormady, Preston Williams, Kyle Phillips (I think he works his way into the 2-deep (or 2.5 deep, since Maggitt isn't strictly a DE) by midseason), and Shy Tuttle.

Tommy Townsend will be the backup punter, but it seems like it is cheating to list a punter on the 2 deep. Sheriron could overtake Dormady, but I suspect that Quentin will be the backup for at least the first half of the season, and so Sheriron doesn't quality for the list, given the "most of" clause.
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Austin Smith (OLB) could get alot of playing time. He's my 3 star guy who plays much better than his rankings. He'll be the Cam Sutton/Jashon Robertson of this class.
 
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#35
#35
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Austin Smith (OLB) could get alot of playing time. He's my 3 star guy who plays much better than his rankings. He'll be the Cam Sutton/Jashon Robertson of this class.
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IDK. He may very well surprise, but OLB is loaded. He's behind JRM, Bates, Maggitt, Berry. And Smith didn't enroll early either. I just see him redshirting this year.
 
#36
#36
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Austin Smith (OLB) could get alot of playing time. He's my 3 star guy who plays much better than his rankings. He'll be the Cam Sutton/Jashon Robertson of this class.
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Yeah, as Kristy said...I really like Smith, and would not be terribly surprised to see him work his way into the two deep at some point. But to predict him spending over half the season there is too much for me right now. At OLB we will have, in some fashion of other, Maggitt, Reeves-Maybin, Weatherd, Bates, McDowell, Elliot Berry, Quart'e Sapp, possibly Darrell Taylor, and perhaps Jakob Johnson.

He could easily pass Johnson and Sapp. He has a non-negligible chance at passing Taylor. But what are the odds that he passes up McDowell and Berry? And even if he does that, it still leaves Maggit (at times), Reeves-Maybin, Weatherd, and Bates.

AND we only use 2 LBs most of the time.

As good as he may be, I suspect he will play more of the special teams demon role, passed down from Reeves-Maybin to McDowell, and from McDowell to Smith. Then, in 2016, he can step up into the 2-deep, and start transitioning to a powerful OLB presence.
 
#37
#37
08Vol said:
I don't see DR as a 5 yr player. I think one of the ways we got him to flip is knowing he wasn't going to have to sit a season behind Tunsil. A 5* should be able to start as a frosh, that's part of the ranking system
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A 5* should see significant playing time and contribute. I know times have changed and kids are leaving early to the NFL and so more playing time as a freshman is more or less assumed, but the high school to college football jump is bigger than from an SEC program to the NFL jump.

If you're starting freshmen from Day 1, your program is in trouble at that position. Different time but Reggie White didn't start from Day 1, Peyton Manning had to start from game 1 due to injury, Chuck Webb and Carl Pickens redshirted the same year (in which the Vols lost their first 6 games). There's a learning curve involved that involves playing against older competition with more experience than you have. At practice.

If we're starting freshmen on the O and D lines, we're not winning 9 games.
 
#39
#39
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
If Barnett was coming in this season, would you hope he wasn't starting? How about if Cam Sutton was coming in as a freshmen?

This idea that starting freshmen is bad ASSUMES they are not extremely talented. I personally have no problem with starting 3 freshmen if they are the best we have at the position. Our team has 3 holes right now on the depth chart. MLB, RT, and DT. No reason we can't plug in the talented youngsters. I'd rather have Darrin Kirkland at MLB than Bynum. I'd rather have Kahlil at DT than anyone else on the roster. I'd rather have Richmond at tackle than anyone else on the roster as well.

You don't recruit 5 star freshmen to sit behind 3 star seniors.
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Dude, they started on a 7-5 team that had to win 3 of their last 4 to get to 7. I don't hope to do that again. When this program is rolling, the way it's supposed to and there's 3 or 4 years worth of top 10 recruiting classes at practice, the 5 stars from the previous 3 years plus the 4 stars and some of the 3 stars that have been in the strength and conditioning program for multiple years and practiced against college players will trump the incoming freshmen with 5 stars. The same principles behind having your course work in engineering school divided up into 100, 200, 300 and 400 series. Despite your GPA in high school, you're not ready for senior level courses when you get to the Hill.
 
#40
#40
norrislakevol said:
We will have to play a 4 - 3 base I would expect against the power running teams we face this year. OK, GA, ARK, and ALA.
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True but then you look at Mizzou and perhaps even USCe. They are spread teams that will likely lean on their OL's and run game a lot due to weakness at WR or QB. If you have two CB's who can lock down a WR each then you open up a lot of options to stop the run game.

Because I live in MO I look at MU more than other opponents. They have next to no production returning at WR. Their strength in their skill group is Hansbrough and another RB that returns from injury then a guy that had about 100 yards last fall. UT's young OLB's are likely better athletes then MU's starting 3rd WR. They will probably try to be TE heavy due to having some quality TE's.

If UT can play the 4-3 against them then leaning on their run game becomes more difficult.
 
#41
#41
Not trying to pick on D 4 H too much but someone does this every year. The excitement about the new players makes them forget about the old players... who were once the excited new players but didn't play immediately. There are always a few Fr that, either due to need or ability, play. But it isn't the norm.

A few years ago, someone like the OP assured me that Lane would push Poole right out of his starting role. Now that we look back on it, Lane was never as good as Poole even as a Sr. But stars blind people sometimes.
 
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#42
#42
K-Mac is the only one I see starting from day one. Kirkland and Williams might have been possibilities if not for the fact they are still recovering from injuries, which always seem to take longer than projected.

I do think it's likely that more true freshmen will be starting by the end of the season, however. The most likely, imo, listed first: Richmond, Kirkland, Tuttle, Phillips, Townsend, P. Williams, Dormady (I just don't think Dobbs can make it through the whole season without a ding or two, especially considering his fondness for running it).
 
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#43
#43
ksgovols said:
Dude, they started on a 7-5 team that had to win 3 of their last 4 to get to 7. I don't hope to do that again. When this program is rolling, the way it's supposed to and there's 3 or 4 years worth of top 10 recruiting classes at practice, the 5 stars from the previous 3 years plus the 4 stars and some of the 3 stars that have been in the strength and conditioning program for multiple years and practiced against college players will trump the incoming freshmen with 5 stars. The same principles behind having your course work in engineering school divided up into 100, 200, 300 and 400 series. Despite your GPA in high school, you're not ready for senior level courses when you get to the Hill.
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Amari Cooper and TJ Yeldon started on a team that won the national title in 2012. A'Shawn Robinson started on a team that started 11-0 in 2013. Cam Robinson started on a team that went to the playoff in 2014.

I rattled off those names just to show you that even Alabama (with its 4 consecutive #1 recruiting classes) still has true freshmen start a majority of the games for them almost every season. FSU had Jalen Ramsey starting for them as a true freshmen in the national title game against Auburn 2 years ago.

The examples are ENDLESS. When you recruit the caliber of guys we've attracted the last 2 years, its INEVITABLE that a couple of them win starting jobs as true freshmen. It does not mean you become worse. You're just used to that idea because we've been terrible for so long and have not recruited at this level since the golden days of the Fulmer era.
 
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#44
#44
sjt18 said:
Not trying to pick on D 4 H too much but someone does this every year. The excitement about the new players makes them forget about the old players... who were once the excited new players but didn't play immediately. There are always a few Fr that, either due to need or ability, play. But it isn't the norm.

A few years ago, someone like the OP assured me that Lane would push Poole right out of his starting role. Now that we look back on it, Lane was never as good as Poole even as a Sr. But stars blind people sometimes.
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I don't care about stars too much. I think Austin Smith has a chance to be the 2nd best player from this class (after K-MAC). Why you ask? Well, I'm no football savant but I've just really liked what I've seen from him on film plus his physical attributes seem to be all there.

Now on the topic of new incoming players being better than last years guys. I would agree with you IN GENERAL, but I'd say the last 2 recruiting classes are sort of an asterisk on that rule. Simply because we haven't seen recruiting like this at Tennessee for consecutive years since the height of the Fulmer era. I agree that new incoming players don't automatically become better than the older more established guys. I just think THIS GROUP is different. Something about THE GROUP as a whole makes me think they can be special.

Plus its not like I'm saying the true freshmen will push established starters out. If you note, I've never said anything about Preston Williams passing up North, Howard, Malone or any of our established WRs. I simply think the talented true freshmen have a shot at winning the open competitions we have for 3 positions. Right now MLB, DT, and RT are open. There are older guys who could factor in. I simply find the young guys to be better options. Both in the short term and the long term.

Plus I think Butch agrees with me. In media day he all about said Kahlil and Shy would play a ton (if not start). They recruited Drew Richmond a pitch that he would compete for a chance to start DAY ONE at right or left tackle.
 
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#45
#45
Everyone needs to consider the tendencies of Butch. He's a big "experience" guy. He doesn't like playing true freshmen unless he absolutely has to.

I didn't even realize this until recently when I went back and watched a few early 2014 games, but Jalen Hurd was not our starting RB for the first half of the season. Seems crazy, but Butch went with Marlin Lane first.
 
#46
#46
Who doesn't get an opportunity to compete for a chance to start from Day 1?

The best will play and almost 40 years of watching this from my couch tells me that it would be highly irregular for a true freshman to start on the O-line or D-line of an SEC team that's supposed to win around 9 games. Some have to due to circumstances such as injuries or lack of depth. Not too unusual to stick a WR, RB or S in early because they're skill position players rather than guys that depend on mass and strength PLUS technique to be efficient. The exceptions like Bill Mayo and Lee North were during rebuilding years. Much better off to get those guys a year in the weight room and eating at the training table than to come into the program in June or August and be game ready to start by September or October.
 
#47
#47
What a wonderful predicament for our vols.Last few years,it was we prayed noone got hurt.This year,we're wondering who breaks into the starting lineup.A wonderful problem to have!Whomever starts,go sic-um.
 
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#48
#48
Kyle phillips will get some valuable PT this year early on. I think it'll take mid season or possibly a little longer to be showing why he was ranked so highly. But while he is in I think well see flashes of what he could potentially be a few years down the road. He's going to be a stud.
 
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#50
#50
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I don't care about stars too much. I think Austin Smith has a chance to be the 2nd best player from this class (after K-MAC). Why you ask? Well, I'm no football savant but I've just really liked what I've seen from him on film plus his physical attributes seem to be all there.

Now on the topic of new incoming players being better than last years guys. I would agree with you IN GENERAL, but I'd say the last 2 recruiting classes are sort of an asterisk on that rule. Simply because we haven't seen recruiting like this at Tennessee for consecutive years since the height of the Fulmer era. I agree that new incoming players don't automatically become better than the older more established guys. I just think THIS GROUP is different. Something about THE GROUP as a whole makes me think they can be special.

Plus its not like I'm saying the true freshmen will push established starters out. If you note, I've never said anything about Preston Williams passing up North, Howard, Malone or any of our established WRs. I simply think the talented true freshmen have a shot at winning the open competitions we have for 3 positions. Right now MLB, DT, and RT are open. There are older guys who could factor in. I simply find the young guys to be better options. Both in the short term and the long term.

Plus I think Butch agrees with me. In media day he all about said Kahlil and Shy would play a ton (if not start). They recruited Drew Richmond a pitch that he would compete for a chance to start DAY ONE at right or left tackle.
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No real argument on much of this.

OTOH, the guys that these guys might replace include some pretty good players. Just because the classes from 3-5 years ago weren't as strong as the last two does not mean there were no good players in those classes. Dobbs, North, Pig, Maggitt, Randolph, and several others came from those classes.

I can see some of the Fr playing and a couple making the two deep. Everyone gets to compete so without any doubt if Richmond is the best LT then he'll start at LT. My personal belief is that he won't though. If he doesn't then a RS year of development makes more sense than a few snaps here and there with a blown year of eligibility. If he's only a 3 year player then so be it... It still makes more sense not to give him "junk" snaps.
 
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