Holly says we have One Starter

#51
#51
Graves has no offensive game, and that is a problem. They should have pushed Graves to develop a face-up game as soon as she got here, two years ago. You can't wait until someone is a junior before working on her on her weaknesses. The 3 and 4 spots will be crucial this year--will be interesting to see the rotation. Of course Carter will start, and no doubt Massengale as well, so we know who three of the starters will be, actually.
 
#52
#52
armchair said:
Graves has no offensive game, and that is a problem. They should have pushed Graves to develop a face-up game as soon as she got here, two years ago. You can't wait until someone is a junior before working on her on her weaknesses. The 3 and 4 spots will be crucial this year--will be interesting to see the rotation. Of course Carter will start, and no doubt Massengale as well, so we know who three of the starters will be, actually.
Click to expand...

You make a good point you can`t wait until her jr year to work on a face up game. Graves will have the big games vs the weaker teams but when it time to play the best of the best i see problems with her at the 4. Now if she can hit the 15 ft shot at a high rate then she will be in good shape and this team will be hard to beat.
 
#53
#53
armchair said:
Graves has no offensive game, and that is a problem.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree Graves has her weaknesses, but "no offensive game" for a player who averaged 13 points and earned SEC Freshman of the Year/1st team All-SEC is a bit harsh. I think a lot of fans have forgotten how good she was before her sophomore slump (which was clearly injury-related). Let's hope she gets it back this season....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#54
#54
Darth_Vol said:
If you are going to berate fans for questioning player development, maybe you shouldn't list several examples of players who failed to develop in the system...:thud:
Click to expand...



:hi:

Actually it was two systems for some players. I am Luke LadyVolsWalker.:rock:

I will roll with the youngens, let them play a game before we ASSUME no development has taken place.:thumbsup:

And the ones I brought up are out of the program and /or our players who are on their way out of the program, system. :blink:
 
Last edited:
#55
#55
Graves and Jones came in the same year and are now going into their junior season. one has had one good season and one sub-par season while the other has had two back to back sub-par seasons. we need one to go back to playing how she did her freshman year or even better and we actually need to see major signs of improvement from the other. at least we know that Graves and Russell played through injuries but there is no excuse for Burdick and Jones.
 
#56
#56
I was encouraged that Holly said that Jones has vastly improved hopefully I will be able to see it on the court.
 
#57
#57
Pat4life said:
:hi:

Actually it was two systems for some players. I am Luke LadyVolsWalker.:rock:

I will roll with the youngens, let them play a game before we ASSUME no development has taken place.:thumbsup:

And the ones I brought up are out of the program and /or our players who are on their way out of the program, system. :blink:
Click to expand...

So Holly is exempt when rating the current seniors? Izzy developed very well. Ariel and Cierra, not so much. I guess one out of three ain't bad.

If the first two seasons of Holly's "system" are any indication, the players aren't the only ones who need to show significant development....
 
#58
#58
Darth_Vol said:
So Holly is exempt when rating the current seniors? Izzy developed very well. Ariel and Cierra, not so much. I guess one out of three ain't bad.

If the first two seasons of Holly's "system" are any indication, the players aren't the only ones who need to show significant development....
Click to expand...

I don't think you're giving Ariel credit where due. She was the 2nd best player on the team (behind Izzy) when she went down with injury. If Simmons played the first half as well as she did the 2nd half, they would have won some of the games that they lost.

Cierra...well, that's a different story.
 
#59
#59
This would be my starting line-up.

Carter - 1 (point guard)
Massengale - 2 (guard)
Burdick - 3 (guard)
Graves - 4 (power forward)
Harrison - 5 (center)

We did the best with Carter running the point versus anyone else. Massengale needs to look to shoot 3's and penetrate and dish. We need Burdick's size and she's a Senior and has played significant minutes every year. Graves will get out of the Sophomore slump and have a year more like she did her Freshman year. Harrison was one of our best players last year and needs to continue to be one this year, too. That's three Seniors, a Junior, and a Sophomore. Lots of upperclassman leadership needed to win.
 
#60
#60
It is going to be quite difficult for anyone to say that Massengale hasn't developed or been a very good player. She has a career 430 assist to 215 turnovers which is 2 to 1 that is considered excellent. She has scored 759 points so looks to be a career 1000 point scorer which is fabulous for anyone playing point guard.
Burdick could be a thousand point scorer as well. She certainly hasn't been a good assist to turnover player that really needs to improve this season. Overall even though you could say that neither of these players have been superstars both have been very good players for Tennessee.
 
#61
#61
To add Bashaara Graves has scored 787 points in two seasons and shot 53 percent from the field. People want to talk about her scoring average going down well she took almost 100 less shots as a sophomore than she did as a freshman. Her shooting percentage was higher .535 to .522 as a freshman. The stats prove that she is a very productive offensive player. Like most of the other players on the team she has more turnovers than assist. Before some starts talking about that post players will always have more turnovers than assists just not true look at the UConn, Notre Dame, Stanford posts all have positive assist to turnover ratios our post players should as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#62
#62
Volfan2012 said:
It is going to be quite difficult for anyone to say that Massengale hasn't developed or been a very good player.
Click to expand...

No one said she wasn't good, we're saying she's the same player now as when she first got here. Same with Burdick. Unlike Harrison, their improvement has been marginal at best....
 
#63
#63
Darth_Vol said:
No one said she wasn't good, we're saying she's the same player now as when she first got here. Same with Burdick. Unlike Harrison, their improvement has been marginal at best....
Click to expand...

A damn good point guard as a freshman doesn't have as much room for improvement as a raw player. Massengale was and is a good point guard.
 
#65
#65
I think Massengale did great last year before she was injured especially when we played North Carolina. My only issue with her is she's not aggressive enough and needs to become a better rebounder.
 
#66
#66
Darth_Vol said:
No one said she wasn't good, we're saying she's the same player now as when she first got here. Same with Burdick. Unlike Harrison, their improvement has been marginal at best....
Click to expand...

I don't think that's the case at all. Ariel has become a more legit offensive threat in addition to her strong playmaking skills that she had as a freshman and sophomore. She's gotten much more comfortable calling her own number while executing plays.

If you compare her numbers for 19 games last season to the 35 games her sophomore year (at about the same min/game average), she was much better across the board. If she hadn't gotten hurt and kept pace with how her first half of the season went, she would have easily broken her scoring, FGM/FGA (incl 3pt), assists, rebounds, and probably steals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#67
#67
Darth_Vol said:
So Holly is exempt when rating the current seniors? Izzy developed very well. Ariel and Cierra, not so much. I guess one out of three ain't bad.

If the first two seasons of Holly's "system" are any indication, the players aren't the only ones who need to show significant development....
Click to expand...

Those weren't Holly's players, she was a coach on staff but they are carryover from Pat. Let' see how her recruits do.
 
#68
#68
Pat4life said:
Those weren't Holly's players, she was a coach on staff but they are carryover from Pat. Let' see how her recruits do.
Click to expand...

But you see, that doesn't matter to trolls like Darth Vol. His primary purpose here -- his number one goal -- is to criticize and demean the coaching staff, and Holly Warlick in particular. This is evident in the fact that he is very quick to point out any perceived negatives, but he never has anything good to say. The fact is, Holly is a very, very good coach who has had to deal with an incredible amount of pressure -- from every front imaginable -- in assuming this job. I'm not sure anyone else out there -- any other coach, period-- could have handled this particular situation with as much grace, composure, class, and fortitude as Holly has. I'm sure it hasn't been easy, especially given how close she is to Pat Summitt. She is only now getting to the point that the majority of the team is comprised of HER players. It takes time for any coaching change to work itself out, and perhaps even more so in this particular situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#69
#69
Darth_Vol said:
Apparently Geno and other great coaches didn't get that memo....
Click to expand...

Why don't you go play with your lightsaber somewhere, Darth_Vol? Or maybe go look up some Youtube videos of Geno to satisfy your need to observe "greatness." I don't know, you might even be able to do both at the same time. The incessant whining about the Lady Vols coaching staff and the team in general is needless, and it's getting old.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#70
#70
Darth_Vol said:
No one said she wasn't good, we're saying she's the same player now as when she first got here. Same with Burdick. Unlike Harrison, their improvement has been marginal at best....
Click to expand...

No she was definitely better as a junior before the injury. All her numbers were better and so was her defense. I can give you Burdick and everyone has players that do not develop like they should. At UConn they transfer probably because that is the option given. Here we let them stay and do the best they can.
 
#71
#71
Volfan2012 said:
No she was definitely better as a junior before the injury. All her numbers were better and so was her defense. I can give you Burdick and everyone has players that do not develop like they should. At UConn they transfer probably because that is the option given. Here we let them stay and do the best they can.
Click to expand...

Yes Ariel put up marginally better numbers. Even Burdick, as much crap as she gets, showed improvement last season. She was the top rebounder after Izzy, the only frontcourt player to have a positive A/TO ratio, and improved her defense. Have either of them developed to show why they were rated at the top of their positions coming out of high school? In both cases, I would say no. But evidently, they don't fit Holly's "system".....:no:
 
#72
#72
Darth_Vol said:
Yes Ariel put up marginally better numbers. Even Burdick, as much crap as she gets, showed improvement last season. She was the top rebounder after Izzy, the only frontcourt player to have a positive A/TO ratio, and improved her defense. Have either of them developed to show why they were rated at the top of their positions coming out of high school? In both cases, I would say no. But evidently, they don't fit Holly's "system".....:no:
Click to expand...

Ariel's numbers weren't marginally better...they were a lot better. About on par with how much Izzy improved from sophomore to junior year.

Compared to other PGs in her class, Rachel Banham is the only one that has clearly surpassed her.

I'll give you Burdick. If anything, she was worst last year than her sophomore year.
 
#73
#73
Amb3096 said:
Ariel's numbers weren't marginally better...they were a lot better. About on par with how much Izzy improved from sophomore to junior year.

Compared to other PGs in her class, Rachel Banham is the only one that has clearly surpassed her.

I'll give you Burdick. If anything, she was worst last year than her sophomore year.
Click to expand...

As a freshman:
7.4 pts 2.3 rbs 4.9 asts 2.3 tvs 1.4 stl 39%FG 33%3P 78%FT

As a junior:
12.5 pts 3.2 rbs 5.8 asts 2.4 tvs 1.4 stl 39%FG 38%3P 84%FT

Clear improvement, but I guess I don't see it as significant as you do. Her scoring is up simply because she takes more shots, but she is still basically the same offensive player: good 3 point shooter, poor midrange/drive to the basket. She has proven she can get hot and go off for 25+ points in a given game, but she is still fairly easy to scheme against from the better backcourts/coaches they face.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#74
#74
Darth_Vol said:
As a freshman:
7.4 pts 2.3 rbs 4.9 asts 2.3 tvs 1.4 stl 39%FG 33%3P 78%FT

As a junior:
12.5 pts 3.2 rbs 5.8 asts 2.4 tvs 1.4 stl 39%FG 38%3P 84%FT

Clear improvement, but I guess I don't see it as significant as you do. Her scoring is up simply because she takes more shots, but she is still basically the same offensive player: good 3 point shooter, poor midrange/drive to the basket. She has proven she can get hot and go off for 25+ points in a given game, but she is still fairly easy to scheme against from the better backcourts/coaches they face.
Click to expand...

It's not just taking more shots, but knowing when to pass and when to shoot. That alone makes her a better player. As a junior, she was also more aggressive as shown by the fact that she got to the line almost as much in half a season compared to her two previous full seasons. Also, 33% to 38% from downtown is nothing to sneeze at. That's all a helluva improvement in my book.

The three best backcourts she played against last year was ND, UNC and Vandy. While she stunk it up against Vandy, she averaged 17 pts and 6.5 assists against the other two teams. I wouldn't call that fairly easy to scheme against.
 
#75
#75
Amb3096 said:
The three best backcourts she played against last year was ND, UNC and Vandy. While she stunk it up against Vandy, she averaged 17 pts and 6.5 assists against the other two teams. I wouldn't call that fairly easy to scheme against.
Click to expand...

She shot very poorly in losses against Stanford, ND, and Vandy. She did have a solid game against UNC, a team with talent but not particularly well coached....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top