For Those Who Are Questioning Barnes Recruiting?

[Stoked]

Pearl will not win like he did until he can surround himself with better staff. The term "greatest staff in the country" actually had some truth to Pearl's staff here. Forbes and Shay are amazing coaches. I know mentioning Forbes gives SD a chubby, but he is right the guy can coach.

 

[SeniorDrill]

Pearl will not win like he did until he can surround himself with better staff. The term "greatest staff in the country" actually had some truth to Pearl's staff here. Forbes and Shay are amazing coaches. I know mentioning Forbes gives SD a chubby, but he is right the guy can coach.

:good!: I'm still hoping he doesn't move to the next level. I think the generosity of donors to give him this added enticement to keep other mid-majors from stealing him is enough for that. Forbes will receive a “retention bonus” on July 1, 2017 of $150,000. In addition, as long as Forbes remains at ETSU, the contract change calls for on-going retention bonuses of $175,000 on July 1, 2018, and of $200,000 on both July 1, 2019 and July 1, 2020.

 

[YankeeVol]

:good!: I'm still hoping he doesn't move to the next level. I think the generosity of donors to give him this added enticement to keep other mid-majors from stealing him is enough for that. Forbes will receive a “retention bonus” on July 1, 2017 of $150,000. In addition, as long as Forbes remains at ETSU, the contract change calls for on-going retention bonuses of $175,000 on July 1, 2018, and of $200,000 on both July 1, 2019 and July 1, 2020.

If he continues to win at that rate, he won't be at ETSU much longer.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

All valid points, but we can agree to disagree on a few of those points. Admittedly a lot of my admiration for Bruce Pearl is sentimental, but we're all lying if we act like we don't long for the days of CJ Watson, Chris Lofton, Jajuan Smith, Tyler Smith, etc, etc. hanging up 100 points in TBA a few times a year and owning Florida, Memphis, Kevin Durant and others.

While I understand your points and I think a lot of what you said is true, many of the reasons why Pearl has been slow to get that program off the ground are issues that could happen anywhere.

Recruits don't always pan out, that happens anywhere you go. Robert Hubbs and Scotty Hopson were both 5 star McDonald's All American finalists, yet most would consider their time at UT to be disappointing relative to exepectations.

Being that most incoming freshman are 17-19 (or 15 if you're Butch Jones in a post game presser) immaturity is not an uncommon reason for guys to leave the program whether it be on their own or for academic/disciplinary reasons. Detrick Mostella, Dom Woodson, Tyler Smith, Major Wingate and Ramar Smith were all, at the very minimum, contributors--and in a few cases team leaders. These guys were all kicked off the team within the last 10 years or so, does that mean we run a dirty program? I personally don't think so.

In regards to their non conference schedule being weak, I completely agree. But one thing I will say is that you don't schedule teams like UConn 2-3 years in advance with the expectation that they'll have a down year. That's a powerhouse opponent who just happened to have a down year. Same for Oklahoma. And last time I checked Purdue was pretty darn solid this year.

Bottom line Bruce's top 4 returning scorers are rising sophomores and he has a top 20 class coming in. He's off to a slow start, but it's not like he isn't out busting his ass on the recruiting trail making sure next year is better.

You must have not seen how many players UCONN had leave the team after this year. Ollie won a Natty off of Calhoun's players and has that program going in the wrong direction. They will prob be picked around middle of the pack in the AAC for crying out load.

 

[IndianapolisVol]

You must have not seen how many players UCONN had leave the team after this year. Ollie won a Natty off of Calhoun's players and has that program going in the wrong direction. They will prob be picked around middle of the pack in the AAC for crying out load.

Yeah, you're correct. Ollie was a benificiary of Jim Calhoun's decades of running a top notch program. BUT, that completely misses the point I was trying to make...

Non-Conference games are usually agreed upon about 2 years in advance and sometimes up to 5 years in advance. College basketball differs from football because the exact game schedules arent generated as far in advance even though the opponents making up that schedule have often been finalized long before. This is one reason why you see one-off non conference matchups during the middle of conference play... the game was agreed upon but the scheduling pushed the game back for whatever reason.

When Auburn scheduled UConn it was probably around the time they won it all.

Between 1997 and 2015 NOBODY scheduled UConn with the expectation that it would be an easy win.

Auburn might've had a weak non-conference schedule, but it's not because they scheduled 100% mid-major cupcakes. Did they have some weak opponents? You bet your sorry a$$ they did. But nobody would've scheduled teams like UConn and Oklahoma 2-3 years ago with the intent of an easy win.

OU won 29 games last year and won 12 conference games each of the previous 3 seasons. UConn won a natty in 2014...

My point is that for the most part their schedule out of conference WAS weak, but it's not really anything they did wrong... You can't put that on Bruce or Auburn having the intention of putting together a weak non conference schedule. Not with UConn, OU and Purdue... That's just the way it goes sometimes.

 

[IndianapolisVol]

Damn, my bad guys. I'll calm down w these novels.

This forum is 100% back, though. We've gone from trolling Dallas and Senior Drill to talking about basketball. Hell yeah.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Yeah, you're correct. Ollie was a benificiary of Jim Calhoun's decades of running a top notch program. BUT, that completely misses the point I was trying to make...

Non-Conference games are usually agreed upon about 2 years in advance and sometimes up to 5 years in advance. College basketball differs from football because the exact game schedules arent generated as far in advance even though the opponents making up that schedule have often been finalized long before. This is one reason why you see one-off non conference matchups during the middle of conference play... the game was agreed upon but the scheduling pushed the game back for whatever reason.

When Auburn scheduled UConn it was probably around the time they won it all.

Between 1997 and 2015 NOBODY scheduled UConn with the expectation that it would be an easy win.

Auburn might've had a weak non-conference schedule, but it's not because they scheduled 100% mid-major cupcakes. Did they have some weak opponents? You bet your sorry a$$ they did. But nobody would've scheduled teams like UConn and Oklahoma 2-3 years ago with the intent of an easy win.

OU won 29 games last year and won 12 conference games each of the previous 3 seasons. UConn won a natty in 2014...

My point is that for the most part their schedule out of conference WAS weak, but it's not really anything they did wrong... You can't put that on Bruce or Auburn having the intention of putting together a weak non conference schedule. Not with UConn, OU and Purdue... That's just the way it goes sometimes.

I think we're getting lost in the weeds, because the reason the weak OOC schedule is being pointed out is in your first post, you seemingly gave them props for winning 18 games. Winning 18 games with that OOC schedule isn't impressive.

I may have missed it but I don't think anyone was accusing them of doing anything wrong or intentionally making a weak OOC schedule, just point out the fact that it did turn out weak.

Edit: that read a bit swarmy, but please don't take it that way.

 

[Backwards K]

might as well add Tony Jones who left.

He'd be interested for sure. Currently spending his time sulking as a teller at SunTrust Bank.

 

[Orange to the Bay]

Amongst other blue-chippers who are harder to remember off the top of my head, Barnes recruited Kevin Durant, DJ Augustin, et al to Texas.

Given bball recruiting cycles are about 2x longer than footballl,some recruits starting to talk to colleges as freshmen in HS, once he gets a foothold here, frankly I'm not worried about his recruiting ability at all.

 

[wmcovol]

Auburn lost 7 out of their last 10 and still won 18 games last season.

How many games vs the Elite 8 did Auburn play? Probably not near as many as Tennessee did but they won 2 more games....big deal

 

[IndianapolisVol]

Amongst other blue-chippers who are harder to remember off the top of my head, Barnes recruited Kevin Durant, DJ Augustin, et al to Texas.

Given bball recruiting cycles are about 2x longer than footballl,some recruits starting to talk to colleges as freshmen in HS, once he gets a foothold here, frankly I'm not worried about his recruiting ability at all.

Yep. Add LaMarcus Aldridge, PJ Tucker, TJ Ford, Chris Mihm and a few others to that list and Rick seems like a recruiting wiz.

 

[VolDaddy61]

Let me ask you an important question. Bruce Pearl brought talent in while he was here at Tennessee. There's plenty of UT fans who would trade Barnes for Pearl in a heartbeat. I will give him credit for bringing in energy and excitment to this program but let me get to the point. Barnes isn't recruiting on the same level as Pearl right now but how is it that Pearl has yet to make the NCAA Tournament and loses to Barnes with more talent? We talk about Barnes vs Pearl all the time, it's basically a war. I've been very critical of Barnes at times, we all have at some point but he's done a good job scouting players that fit his system. Williams, Fulkerson, Bone, Phillips, Turner are all young players but talented.

I honestly believe we make the NCAA Tournament this year because all the pieces are there. Recruiting 4* and 5* talent isn't very important if you can't catch coach or develop them. Pearl is struggling with that right now at Auburn. So would you rather have a coach who can't win with top notch talent or would you rather have a good X's & O's coach who can develop players in Barnes?

I'll take X's and O's and a developer of talent. I'll use Mark Few as an example. Having the honor of being married to a die hard Gonzaga fan, it's impressive what he's able to do year in and year out. You probably won't see GU's recruiting classes grabbing head lines. He seems to look for players that are a good fit for what he's trying to do. That's not to say he hasn't had his fair share of talent come through there, but it just appears he places a premium on getting "his guys". Players who are willing to sacrifice for the greater good, players who are willing to be coached, and players who are 100% sold on what the program's goals are, not the individual's. The results speak for themselves. I've been watching them for 17 years now, and best of my recollection, they've made the tournament every year.

 

[whobethis16]

:good!: I'm still hoping he doesn't move to the next level. I think the generosity of donors to give him this added enticement to keep other mid-majors from stealing him is enough for that. Forbes will receive a “retention bonus” on July 1, 2017 of $150,000. In addition, as long as Forbes remains at ETSU, the contract change calls for on-going retention bonuses of $175,000 on July 1, 2018, and of $200,000 on both July 1, 2019 and July 1, 2020.

I'm just gonna leave this here.

 

[Roustabout]

Let me ask you an important question. Bruce Pearl brought talent in while he was here at Tennessee. There's plenty of UT fans who would trade Barnes for Pearl in a heartbeat. I will give him credit for bringing in energy and excitment to this program but let me get to the point. Barnes isn't recruiting on the same level as Pearl right now but how is it that Pearl has yet to make the NCAA Tournament and loses to Barnes with more talent? We talk about Barnes vs Pearl all the time, it's basically a war. I've been very critical of Barnes at times, we all have at some point but he's done a good job scouting players that fit his system. Williams, Fulkerson, Bone, Phillips, Turner are all young players but talented.

I honestly believe we make the NCAA Tournament this year because all the pieces are there. Recruiting 4* and 5* talent isn't very important if you can't catch coach or develop them. Pearl is struggling with that right now at Auburn. So would you rather have a coach who can't win with top notch talent or would you rather have a good X's & O's coach who can develop players in Barnes?

Vol Nation and false dichotomies.
Gotta love it.

 

[Bring_Back_Dooley]

If we played their pre-SEC schedule we'd have over 20 wins. Their OOC schedule was a joke which is why at 18-14 they still didn't even get an NIT invite.

This.

Pearl has had great classes his whole time there, yet after 3 years he hasn't even made the NIT. I see nothing to show me he's going to actually do anything with the talent he brings in, especially if they keep leaving or getting kicked off.

This.


/thread

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

The proof of Pearl's value to AU will be determined next season. My guess is that his young talent gels and he makes a nice tourney run. If not, may be time for him to move on as Bama seems to be picking up some steam in hoops.

 

[Otis07]

The proof of Pearl's value to AU will be determined next season. My guess is that his young talent gels and he makes a nice tourney run. If not, may be time for him to move on as Bama seems to be picking up some steam in hoops.

I agree Hillbilly and the Big Orange seems to remain a 500 program under CRB...........poor recruiting or otherwise

 

[VolGee4]

I agree Hillbilly and the Big Orange seems to remain a 500 program under CRB...........poor recruiting or otherwise

This is so ironic considering that Pearl has a year up on Barnes, and Barnes' recruits showed great promise this year.

 

[Otis07]

This is so ironic considering that Pearl has a year up on Barnes, and Barnes' recruits showed great promise this year.

It's not about Coach Pearl, it is about my lack of confidence in CRB......and other than Grant Williams "Great Promise" is really optimistic

 

[VolGee4]

It's not about Coach Pearl, it is about my lack of confidence in CRB......and other than Grant Williams "Great Promise" is really optimistic

Yet, you agreed that Pearl could "make a nice tourney run." I just don't get it. Last year was always going to be up and down, and I said as such before the season. You don't have 7 freshmen or sophomores in the rotation and expect a consistent year, and that's not even considering the loss of Fulkerson at a position that we needed. Bone lost 9 games and was inconsistent but showed flashes of his talent. Bowden was better than expected. Schofield improved during the year. But let's keep believing that Bruce Pearl will make a run in year 4.

 

[Otis07]

well since you called me out, I have more faith in Auburn's chances next season than I do with Coach Barnes at Tennessee and as a 1981 graduate of UTK that is hard to acknowledge

 

[VolGee4]

well since you called me out, I have more faith in Auburn's chances next season than I do with Coach Barnes at Tennessee and as a 1981 graduate of UTK that is hard to acknowledge

If Barnes does next year what Pearl did this year (7-11 in conference), this place will not be happy. Sure, Pearl was playing with a bunch of freshmen this year, but he didn't do anything in his first two years either. That's the point. There is no more evidence that Pearl will succeed than Rick Barnes.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Yet, you agreed that Pearl could "make a nice tourney run." I just don't get it. Last year was always going to be up and down, and I said as such before the season. You don't have 7 freshmen or sophomores in the rotation and expect a consistent year, and that's not even considering the loss of Fulkerson at a position that we needed. Bone lost 9 games and was inconsistent but showed flashes of his talent. Bowden was better than expected. Schofield improved during the year. But let's keep believing that Bruce Pearl will make a run in year 4.

I don't want to answer for another poster. I will offer that my opinion is based on the talent that Pearl has. I don't think that he's recruited a bunch of 1 and doners who should be expected to come in and be all conference level players as freshmen. I do think think he has players with a high ceiling and Pearl's past record shows that he knows how to coach. Also, I don't think Pearl had much to do with AU's 2014 class given that he'd only been OTJ about 3 weeks when regular signing day occurred. If he's going to make noise, I think '17-'18 is the season it happens.

 

[7maxims]

Barnes and his staff are the worst recruiters in the SEC. Meanwhile Cuonzo is about to reel in a top 5 class in just a few weeks at Mizzou. Hopefully we'll only have to suffer through one more season before Currie lets this retread go.

 

[Otis07]

after 18 seasons in the state of Texas, doesn't seem that CRB has made any contacts in that State