Beheading in Oklahoma

#53
#53
hndog609 said:
So let's not be so general. Are you ready to say there's no way Alton Nolen's religious affiliation may not have played a role in what happened?
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Sure. Just like the Christian guy that killed 69 Scandinavian kids a few years back, and went on and on about right wing Christian ideology and Islamaphobia justifying the murders.

Doesn't mean all Christians are apt to gun down 5 dozen kids. It means he's mentally ill, as is this guy. And that both distort their religious views to justify in their own minds doing something awful.

In each case, the religion is not to blame-- its the excuse of a madman.
 
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#54
#54
'Boro-vol said:
It would if it was your mother beheaded at work yesterday.
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No it wouldn't. In the end the grief I would feel would be for the loss. No different than if she was shot by a recently fired employee who was angry.
 
#55
#55
lawgator1 said:
It is critical to the hate narrative that all Muslims are dangerous and we should be suspicious of all of them.
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The former CEO of the company who is also a reserve deputy shot him.

Had he not been there with a gun, how many more people would've died LG?

Ban guns, huh?
 
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#56
#56
'Boro-vol said:
First....I've forwarded no religious position here. I'm a Wiccan for all you know.

The difference being, the Holy Text of no other faith specifically calls for beheading non-believers, rape as a means of subjugation, or the conversion, submission, or death of members of any other faith. The Muslims actively pursue a non-compete clause regarding other religions.

You can deal with logic if you wish, though as an attorney you should know fact is much more relevant.
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At least you can admit it.

christine-odonnells-first-campaign-ad-gets-right-to-the-point-shes-no-witch.jpg
 
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#58
#58
lawgator1 said:
Sure. Just like the Christian guy that killed 69 Scandinavian kids a few years back, and went on and on about right wing Christian ideology and Islamaphobia justifying the murders.

Doesn't mean all Christians are apt to gun down 5 dozen kids. It means he's mentally ill, as is this guy. And that both distort their religious views to justify in their own minds doing something awful.

In each case, the religion is not to blame-- its the excuse of a madman.
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Good, I was just hoping to bring it back more toward the middle. Now what if this guy isn't as clearly coo coo as some other guys of note (like the Scandanavian you cite or, say, Jared Loughner) and his beliefs really are a central player?

It's fair to criticize the "they're all the same" approach and get out in front of something (you actually did some of that in the Loughner shooting if you recall) but don't get overly dismissive either.
 
#61
#61
lawgator1 said:
Ummmm ... he's law enforcement.
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Yeah so. Maybe he's nut job too, just wanting to put a bullet in someone.

What if he wasn't LE, just a forklift driver? Didn't have a carry permit. Would you prosecute him or call him a hero?
 
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#63
#63
lawgator1 said:
Sure. Just like the Christian guy that killed 69 Scandinavian kids a few years back, and went on and on about right wing Christian ideology and Islamaphobia justifying the murders.

Doesn't mean all Christians are apt to gun down 5 dozen kids. It means he's mentally ill, as is this guy. And that both distort their religious views to justify in their own minds doing something awful.

In each case, the religion is not to blame-- its the excuse of a madman.
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Again, is it not fair to cite and connect the actual religious texts calling for exactly this kind of murder, when the suspect just so happens to be a convert to and follower of said religious texts?

If you could find a text in the Bible calling for the shooting deaths of a school full of children, and the murderer was a confessed Christian, would it not make sense that there was a connection to the ideology? What if it were to happen repeatedly, worldwide, by Christians confessing their faith, and espousing their beliefs. Would you not connect the pattern?
 
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#64
#64
utvolpj said:
No it wouldn't. In the end the grief I would feel would be for the loss. No different than if she was shot by a recently fired employee who was angry.
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Let the old man tell you something he has learned the hard way over the years. Do not never say what you will or will not do in the future. One never knows what one would do until he has walked in those shoes.
 
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#65
#65
Gramps said:
Let the old man tell you something he has learned the hard way over the years. Do not never say what you will or will not do in the future. One never knows what one would do until he has walked in those shoes.
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The end result is still the same. All this freaking out over the type of death is ridiculous. So ridiculous that is about to put thousands more US soldiers in harms way. Of course they'll kill with bombs so it's cool
 
#66
#66
Gramps said:
Let the old man tell you something he has learned the hard way over the years. Do not never say what you will or will not do in the future. One never knows what one would do until he has walked in those shoes.
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And in your case what you will do a minute from now or what you did a minute ago. :)
 
#68
#68
hndog609 said:
Good, I was just hoping to bring it back more toward the middle. Now what if this guy isn't as clearly coo coo as some other guys of note (like the Scandanavian you cite or, say, Jared Loughner) and his beliefs really are a central player?

It's fair to criticize the "they're all the same" approach and get out in front of something (you actually did some of that in the Loughner shooting if you recall) but don't get overly dismissive either.
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It only seems that I'm being dismissive of the role of his conversion because my posts are juxtaposed against the posts of those that are harping on this incident to support their worldview that all Muslims are, or are right on the edge of, evil murderers.
 
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#70
#70
AirVol said:
Yeah so. Maybe he's nut job too, just wanting to put a bullet in someone.

What if he wasn't LE, just a forklift driver? Didn't have a carry permit. Would you prosecute him or call him a hero?
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I've never said LEO's shouldn't be armed. I'm sure you can find an example of a non-agency person who used a gun successfully to defend himself or others. But for every one of those I can cite thousands of examples where guns that were initially purchased for that purpose end up killing or maiming innocents, either accidentally, in a rage, or via theft by a third person.
 
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#71
#71
utvolpj said:
The end result is still the same. All this freaking out over the type of death is ridiculous. So ridiculous that is about to put thousands more US soldiers in harms way. Of course they'll kill with bombs so it's cool
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I've not condoned that....certainly not over what happened in Moore Oklahoma.

Respectfully, don't turn it into something it's not.

BTW....I think you are being intellectually dishonest by stating that burying your mother from a gunshot wound would be the same as doing so after having her head brutally removed from her shoulders.
 
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#74
#74
lawgator1 said:
I've never said LEO's shouldn't be armed. I'm sure you can find an example of a non-agency person who used a gun successfully to defend himself or others. But for every one of those I can cite thousands of examples where guns that were initially purchased for that purpose end up killing or maiming innocents, either accidentally, in a rage, or via theft by a third person.
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Sounds like England, or Australia might suit you better....what with us having that pesky 2nd Amendment and all.

Of course you would have to get used to their escalating violent crime rates....but at least you wouldn't be killed with a gun, maybe.
 
#75
#75
utvolpj said:
The end result is still the same. All this freaking out over the type of death is ridiculous. So ridiculous that is about to put thousands more US soldiers in harms way. Of course they'll kill with bombs so it's cool
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I fail to see how we, the good folk of VN "freaking out" about the manner of death, will lead to soldiers on the battlefield or bombs dropped.
 
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