Arian Foster has Beef with NCAA...........

[BearCat204]

Exactly. And trying to claim that their scholarships is reasonable compensation is about rational as saying that room and boarding was reasonable compensation for slaves, prior to the end of the Civil War.

Ahhh the old college football is modern day slavery bit.....seriously.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

1. NCAA don't work that way.
2. See #1.

Slavery was a profiteering establishment as well, so what does NCAA's way of working have to do with changing the establishment of profiteering (without reciprocal compensation)?

It's simple, a certain percentage of a University program's ticket, licensing, and Television revenue should go to the athletes who generate it. Not rocket science at all.

 

[slh1089]

Fine, I am back to my original post. Tennessee obviously is running in the red or at least per the link in my original post they are. All I am asking is where is the money going to come from??

Not really sure. I was just making the point that non-athletes are able to receive money. I am sure if the system was set up someone, or some group, that is more qualified than I could come up with the solution to your question. I wish I could I answer your question though. :hi:

 

[fade route]

It's minor league football, plain and simple. NCAA makes billions off of these kids.

Slippery slope and a disaster waiting to happen if they start paying student athletes in some from other than a free education, room and board.

 

[fade route]

[QUOTE=VOLorNuttin;6583041]Exactly. And trying to claim that their scholarships is reasonable compensation is about rational as saying that room and boarding was reasonable compensation for slaves, prior to the end of the Civil War.

Compensation should be relative to the sport and amount of income generated. Sports that don't generate enough income, simply don't benefit from those that do. Most of UT's sports are funded by the Football dept. So, they are already getting a free ride. They should feel no sense of entitlement to receive the same compensation that a football player would. Just like every other profession in the world.

You want the big bucks, then you have to go where the big bucks are and try to break into that profession.[/QUOTE]




What planet are you on?

 

[82_VOL_83]

Slavery was a profiteering establishment as well, so what does NCAA's way of working have to do with changing the establishment of profiteering (without reciprocal compensation)?

It's simple, a certain percentage of a University program's ticket, licensing, and Television revenue should go to the athletes who generate it. Not rocket science at all.

I guess I don't have the socialist mindset. I don't see being an athlete at a school the equivalent of slavery. I also don't see where what a school makes in it's program has ANYTHING to do with compensating the players any more than they already are. I work for a company. I agreed to a salary to take the job. My company makes a zillion dollars a year and I knew that when I took the job. Now all the sudden, I am saying wait a minute, you need to pay me more because you are profitable in this division (yet the company as a whole is in the red). Once again, if you know the rules and the compensation when you sign the letter, don't complain about it at a later date. It's not like these kids get to a school and go oh crap, I didn't realize that I was only going to get 40 to 50k per year to be here, I want more! Once again, you won't see the NCAA treating a swimmer any different than a football player. EVER! So given that, where is the money going to come from to pay ALL of the student athletes the SAME amount?

Edit: ALSO, if the baseball team is on TV, do the baseball players get that money? If so, is it only the players that played or only the scholarship players or each player on the team? What happens if every sport at a school runs in the red, do they not get paid? What if a sport is in the red one year and the black the next? Do they get paid one year and not the next? Do you pay the stars on the FB team more than the guys that practice EVERY day but never get to play on game day? That have just as much "invested" in the team as the guy that gets to play.

The knee jerk reaction to this issue is always the same. However, no one seems to give it a whole lot of thought and never weighs the consequences. It's very easy to sit back and cast stones at a problem, it's very hard to come up with real solutions to a problem.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Give them a 60k a year salary before taxes of course. Make them pay for their own tuition, books, tutors, food, lodging, etc. Problem solved.

Going to do the same for Academic Scholarships? The point is obvious...the athletes generate tens of millions of $$$ per year for their school, but scholarships only account for a fraction of one percent of those proceeds. Something is wrong with the math.

If students who do not generate income for the University can get a free ride, on an academic scholarship, why does the athlete who does generate revenue, not get the same scholarship + get compensated accordingly?

 

[sanddune50]

The comment that cracked me up was when Arian was incinuating that the college coaches should be viewed as amatuer due to CFB players being viewed in this light. My question to Arian would be, are these coaches 18-22 year old kids learning their coaching craft? Silly analogy.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Going to do the same for Academic Scholarships? The point is obvious...the athletes generate tens of millions of $$$ per year for their school, but scholarships only account for a fraction of one percent of those proceeds.

Link?

Something is wrong with the math.

Maybe you can get in that class with Patterson.

If students who do not generate income for the University can get a free ride, on an academic scholarship, why does the athlete who does generate revenue, not get the same scholarship + get compensated accordingly?

That is simply not true. MANY non-athletes donate every year to their colleges. Major funding comes to these colleges through non-athletic donations EVERY year. I would hazard a guess but there are very few "full rides" given out by the University System. EVERY student has equal opportunity to get the academic scholarships. It's called studying in High School. My kids were in the marching band in HS and played 2 sports per year. They both received all the money that you can get from UT for their GRADES. Academic scholarships from the University System are EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, athletic scholarships on the other hand are awarded.

 

[tennrich1]

Hey lets no stop there....lets pay high schoolers...or maybe even midget leaguers...espcially if they have a positive balance on income....THIS IS A LOADED ISSUE THAT HAS RAMIFICATIONS IN LIFE...So how much more than the say $75,000 to $100,00 depending on the schools they attend are we going to pay them????Another $5,000 a month???? and can we go back and pay someone who played 20 years ago and now because of the education they received make 7 figure incomes....I can ramble on and on with valid points bbbbbuuuuuuuuuttttttttttttttt....it's fruitless...

 

[VOLZZ]

Very True...............................

 

[Vol_Doc]

Well, I would like to see where you come up with this number?

I didn't specify time frame. Don't have source. Seems pretty obvious with the programming and merchandising that over time it amounts to billions.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

I guess I don't have the socialist mindset. I don't see being an athlete at a school the equivalent of slavery. I also don't see where what a school makes in it's program has ANYTHING to do with compensating the players any more than they already are. I work for a company. I agreed to a salary to take the job. My company makes a zillion dollars a year and I knew that when I took the job. Now all the sudden, I am saying wait a minute, you need to pay me more because you are profitable in this division (yet the company as a whole is in the red). Once again, if you know the rules and the compensation when you sign the letter, don't complain about it at a later date. It's not like these kids get to a school and go oh crap, I didn't realize that I was only going to get 40 to 50k per year to be here, I want more! Once again, you won't see the NCAA treating a swimmer any different than a football player. EVER! So given that, where is the money going to come from to pay ALL of the student athletes the SAME amount?

First of all, an athlete who brings millions of dollars into your coffers getting a certain percentage of the revenue THEY GENERATE...is not socialism....it's capitalism. Socialism is the redistribution of other people's wealth and giving it to those who have not earned it. THE PLAYERS GENERATE/EARN THE REVENUE.and under a just Capital system, they DESERVE a reasonable portion of it. What part of that do you not understand?

The likening to slavery is that both are firmly entrenched establishments that PROFIT off free labor, at the expense of the oppressed. Some, like you, might say...well, slaves got "compensation"...in the form of room and board. That isn't just compensation for their labor. They made slave holders rich (because of the disproportionate amount of gain vs. expenditure). That's why it was so lucrative that half a nation was willing to kill hundreds of thousands to retain the establishment.

Likewise, a mere scholarship is extremely disproportionate compensation for an athlete that is making Universities weathy. That is why the establishment will fight fervently to keep it status quo.

You say the athletes are not compelled by force, so there is no relevancy here. No? Think again. In this case the student athletes have no other recourse to enter the profession, so they indeed are "forced" to work on the NCAA plantation for 3-4yrs under the whip of the entrenched NCAA establishment.

You say they know what they are getting into and they agree to the terms. Really? What other terms do they have? You can go elsewhere to work in your profession. They can't. They HAVE to slave away for the NCAA for 3-4yrs in order to obtain work in the NFL.

Also, just because you may acquiesce early on, it doesn't preclude you from trying at a later time to barter for a better deal. What do you think the (NFL) Lockout was about last year? Very same issue. Proper revenue sharing, or no labor. No labor, no League.

 

[rockytop114]

It's minor league football, plain and simple. NCAA makes billions off of these kids.

the kids get a free education and they get promoted for the nfl and they want more.:cray:

 

[govols/cc]

I didn't specify time frame. Don't have source. Seems pretty obvious with the programming and merchandising that over time it amounts to billions.

Does a kicker get paid the same as a qb? You're getting to play football & go to college for free. Recruiting would be nonexistent. If you're good enough you will get paid eventually.

 

[xpsyclonex2002]

Very well spoken. He is right. The coaches make millions. The NCAA pays thier people. Yet the football players, the only ones who we really want to see get a "free" education?

 

[fade route]

First of all, an athlete who brings millions of dollars into your coffers getting a certain percentage of the revenue THEY GENERATE...is not socialism....it's capitalism. Socialism is the redistribution of other people's wealth and giving it to those who have not earned it. THE PLAYERS GENERATE/EARN THE REVENUE.and under a just Capital system, they DESERVE a reasonable portion of it. What part of that do you not understand?

The likening to slavery is that both are firmly entrenched establishments that PROFIT off free labor, at the expense of the oppressed. Some, like you, might say...well, slaves got "compensation"...in the form of room and board. That isn't just compensation for their labor. They made slave holders rich (because of the disproportionate amount of gain vs. expenditure). That's why it was so lucrative that half a nation was willing to kill hundreds of thousands to retain the establishment.

Likewise, a mere scholarship is extremely disproportionate compensation for an athlete that is making Universities weathy. That is why the establishment will fight fervently to keep it status quo.

You say the athletes are not compelled by force, so there is no relevancy here. No? Think again. In this case the student athletes have no other recourse to enter the profession, so they indeed are "forced" to work on the NCAA plantation for 3-4yrs under the whip of the entrenched NCAA establishment.

You say they know what they are getting into and they agree to the terms. Really? What other terms do they have? You can go elsewhere to work in your profession. They can't. They HAVE to slave away for the NCAA for 3-4yrs in order to obtain work in the NFL.

Also, just because you may acquiesce early on, it doesn't preclude you from trying at a later time to barter for a better deal. What do you think the (NFL) Lockout was about last year? Very same issue. Proper revenue sharing, or no labor. No labor, no League.

Ok, Sport. If athletes should be given a return on the revenue they generate, then how do think the swim team will feel when they are given $0 for their hard work in the pool? Volleyball team? Can you say lawsuit? Discrimination? Rethink your theory.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

the kids get a free education and they get promoted for the nfl and they want more.:cray:

If you were on an academic scholarship and your inventions were making the university, lets say...$50 million during your 3-4yr stay, you'd have a different perspective on it. You're getting $60k on a scholarship that was already available regardless of what your inventions brought. But now, they have hit a gold mine due to your skill, effort and intellect. You don't think it would be fair to ask for a reasonable percentage of those proceeds?

 

[82_VOL_83]

First of all, an athlete who brings millions of dollars into your coffers getting a certain percentage of the revenue THEY GENERATE...is not socialism....it's capitalism. Socialism is the redistribution of other people's wealth and giving it to those who have not earned it. THE PLAYERS GENERATE/EARN THE REVENUE. What part of that do you not understand?

The likening to slavery is that both are firmly entrenched establishments that PROFIT off free labor, at the expense of the oppressed. Slaves would get "compensation in the form of room and board, but that isn't just compensation. Nor is a scholarship (room and board) just compensation for an athlete that is making Universities rich.

You say the athletes are compelled by force, so there is no relevancy here. No? Think again. In this case the student athletes have no other recourse to enter the profession, so they indeed are "forced" to work on the NCAA plantation for 3-4yrs under the whip of the entrenched NCAA establishment.

You say they know what they are getting into and they agree to the terms. Really? What other terms do they have? You can go elsewhere to work in your profession. They can't. They HAVE to slave away for the NCAA for 3-4yrs in order to obtain work in the NFL.

Also, just because you may acquiesce early on, it doesn't preclude you from trying at a later time to barter for a better deal. What do you think the (NFL) Lockout was about last year? Very same issue. Proper revenue sharing, or no labor. No labor, no League.

On socialism, you need to look up the definition. Socialist parties are inherently "workers" parties.

On free labor, I have no idea (and obviously you don't either) what the heck you are talking about. You need to talk to the baseball players if you want to talk free labor. Not the football players.

On force...no I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

On the lockout and "labor". Socialist mindset. You don't like what you are doing or what you are being paid to do it for, QUIT!!! That is capitalism. Holding a corporation hostage via striking is socialism. It's very easy to see.

Done, no more political lessons for those who refuse to learn them.

 

[fade route]

On socialism, you need to look up the definition. Socialist parties are inherently "workers" parties.

On free labor, I have no idea (and obviously you don't either) what the heck you are talking about. You need to talk to the baseball players if you want to talk free labor. Not the football players.

On force...no I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

On the lockout and "labor". Socialist mindset. You don't like what you are doing or what you are being paid to do it for, QUIT!!! That is capitalism. Holding a corporation hostage via striking is socialism. It's very easy to see.

Done, no more political lessons for those who refuse to learn them.

Freaking THIS. Well done.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Ok, Sport. If athletes should be given a return on the revenue they generate, then how do think the swim team will feel when they are given $0 for their hard work in the pool? Volleyball team? Can you say lawsuit? Discrimination? Rethink your theory.

Well...Sport....it doesn't matter what the Tennis player, or swim team member thinks. IF they generate revenue, they should get a portion of it. IF they do not, then they are entitled to nothing.

Same thing goes for all professions or FOR-PROFIT organiztaions/businesses. If your work makes money, you are rewarded. If it doesn't then you aren't. It's called the free market system of capitalism. The swim team is already funded by the football team. Why should they feel entitled to MORE of what the football player generates?

 

[JoseDaMofo]

First of all, an athlete who brings millions of dollars into your coffers getting a certain percentage of the revenue THEY GENERATE...is not socialism....it's capitalism. Socialism is the redistribution of other people's wealth and giving it to those who have not earned it. THE PLAYERS GENERATE/EARN THE REVENUE.and under a just Capital system, they DESERVE a reasonable portion of it. What part of that do you not understand?

The likening to slavery is that both are firmly entrenched establishments that PROFIT off free labor, at the expense of the oppressed. Some, like you, might say...well, slaves got "compensation"...in the form of room and board. That isn't just compensation for their labor. They made slave holders rich (because of the disproportionate amount of gain vs. expenditure). That's why it was so lucrative that half a nation was willing to kill hundreds of thousands to retain the establishment.

Likewise, a mere scholarship is extremely disproportionate compensation for an athlete that is making Universities weathy. That is why the establishment will fight fervently to keep it status quo.

You say the athletes are not compelled by force, so there is no relevancy here. No? Think again. In this case the student athletes have no other recourse to enter the profession, so they indeed are "forced" to work on the NCAA plantation for 3-4yrs under the whip of the entrenched NCAA establishment.

You say they know what they are getting into and they agree to the terms. Really? What other terms do they have? You can go elsewhere to work in your profession. They can't. They HAVE to slave away for the NCAA for 3-4yrs in order to obtain work in the NFL.

Also, just because you may acquiesce early on, it doesn't preclude you from trying at a later time to barter for a better deal. What do you think the (NFL) Lockout was about last year? Very same issue. Proper revenue sharing, or no labor. No labor, no League.

Everything you just stated is absolute garbage.

If what you said were true, then each and every one of us are slaves to our jobs.

A university brandishing 85 scholarships for only one sport is a lot of money they lose. Multiply 85 scholarships x ~$20,000 per student's tuition = $1,700,000.

Not to mention travel expenses for each and every player, food and nutrition for each and every player, equipment, apparel etc.

You're absolutely ignorant if you think that football players aren't well-taken care of.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Everything you just stated is absolute garbage.

If what you said were true, then each and every one of us are slaves to our jobs.

A university brandishing 85 scholarships for only one sport is a lot of money they lose. Multiply 85 scholarships x ~$20,000 per student's tuition = $1,700,000.

Not to mention travel expenses for each and every player, food and nutrition for each and every player, equipment, apparel etc.

You're absolutely ignorant if you think that football players aren't well-taken care of.

Our out of state tuition here is cheap compared to some places. What is out of state for somewhere like Southern Cal or Florida St (private school)? Say only half of their scholarships are out of state equivalents, that could be nearly 4.5 mill if they are in the 100k range.

 

[SergeantVol]

I say we fight this out...

 

[govols/cc]

Somebody show me any job where you get paid for anything close to what you make for the company. An athletic scholarship if nothing else gives many an opportunity to better themselves that otherwise would not have that opportunity.