Are there really 51 Power 5 coaches better than Butch?

#27
#27
Not winning the SECE once justifies the ranking to a degree IMO. 2015 & 2016 were disappointing seasons with only mid-level bowl wins. The talent on the roster proves CBJ has done less with more. With that being said, he has improved the talent level and is now sending guys to the league but has to eventually get the VOLS to ATL.
 
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#28
#28
KBVol said:
He's also had to compete in the SECw and he beat Jones head to head in Neyland. It's a wash imo.
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But to hear the revisionist history on here...UT didn't match up well with Ark...never understood that one.
 
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#29
#29
That's what happens when you blow the SEC East and a Sugar Bowl bid by losing to Will Muschamp and Derek Mason.
 
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#30
#30
SGMVols said:
That's what happens when you blow the SEC East and a Sugar Bowl bid by losing to Will Muschamp and Derek Mason.
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agreed. he's not bottom 10-12. he's not top 10-12.

judged more harshly for the losses to USCe and Vandy, then praised for the wins over VT, FL and UGA.

it's off season fodder. do with it what you will.

he's an average coach in an average division. put him in the high 30's/low 40's and call it a day.
 
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#31
#31
Saban tier:
Nick Saban

Elite tier (the rest of the active coaches with NCs):
Urban Meyer
Jimbo Fisher
Dabo Swinney
Bob Stoops (although he's probably closer to "Very Good," I'm including him because having a NC is so rare among active coaches now)

Very good tier:
David Shaw
Jim Harbaugh
Gary Patterson
Chris Petersen
Bobby Petrino

Good tier:
About 30 coaches who are basically interchangeable, including Butch Jones
 
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#32
#32
Aesius said:
Saban tier:
Nick Saban

Elite tier (the rest of the active coaches with NCs):
Urban Meyer
Jimbo Fisher
Dabo Swinney
Bob Stoops (although he's probably closer to "Very Good," I'm including him because having a NC is so rare among active coaches now)

Very good tier:
David Shaw
Jim Harbaugh
Gary Patterson
Chris Petersen
Bobby Petrino

Good tier:
About 30 coaches who are basically interchangeable, including Butch Jones
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Just curious, which wins put Harbaugh in "very good" in your opinion?
 
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#33
#33
VFL-82-JP said:
A year ago, I would've said no way....thought he was definitely one of the top 20 or 25 coaches in college ball.

Then Vandy and South Carolina happened. Heaping those on top of a few questionable in-game decisions that came before, and a bit of public relations foot-in-mouth disease, and now...just not sure.

This season should tell the tale, one way or the other.
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You already know I agree with in general but not sure about the ranking.
I really wanted 'the guy' and now doubt Jones, same as you.

But as I scan over this list, I find losses that would be labeled "inexcusable" by our fans, from every coach outside the top tier. So don't misunderstand, it's not that I believe Jones should be high in the list, more so that our fans would rank over half the ones in front of him, under him, if that coach was our coach.

In other words, they're giving those coaches credit and ignoring their losses. But if that coach was our coach, they would be raising hell about those same losses.
 
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#34
#34
chargervol said:
Just curious, which wins put Harbaugh in "very good" in your opinion?
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He went 11-1 in back to back seasons at San Diego. He then took Stanford from absolutely nothing to 11-1 in his final season. He won as a 40 point dog against USC in 2007 (his first season at Stanford). He took the 49ers, who were a dumpster fire, took them to the Super Bowl, and they went back to the dumpster fire after he left. He took over at Michigan, which had its second worse 2 year stretch in its history and led them to Top 10 rankings.

I don't like the antics but the results are there
 
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#36
#36
jakez4ut said:
agreed. he's not bottom 10-12. he's not top 10-12.

judged more harshly for the losses to USCe and Vandy, then praised for the wins over VT, FL and UGA.

it's off season fodder. do with it what you will.

he's an average coach in an average division. put him in the high 30's/low 40's and call it a day.
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The bad losses trump the good wins imo because the bad losses ultimately defined the outcome of the season. Then throw in the high/fair expectations that he fell short of and there you go, the more harsh ranking rather than the forgiving one.
 
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#37
#37
BigOrangeMojo said:
He went 11-1 in back to back seasons at San Diego. He then took Stanford from absolutely nothing to 11-1 in his final season. He won as a 40 point dog against USC in 2007 (his first season at Stanford). He took the 49ers, who were a dumpster fire, took them to the Super Bowl, and they went back to the dumpster fire. He took over at Michigan, which had its second worse 2 year stretch in its history and led them to Top 10 rankings.

I don't like the antics but the results are there
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Okay, just curious. So mostly off the past not actually what he's done at Michigan.
I'm in no way saying he won't get it done there, just that he hasn't so far. I can't count getting ranked inside the top 10.
How many of the Big Ten teams that we absolutely destroyed have been highly ranked. Basically you join the Big and win half your games, you're ranked.

Once again, doesn't mean he won't be explosive, but he hasn't been at Michigan so far.
 
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#38
#38
508mikey said:
So hire Clawson back ?
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When was Clawson ever our head coach? Just for good measure, the hypothetical answer is no, since his hiring/massive failure went a long way toward ending Fulmer's career. Either way, it's a weird question that has nothing to do with how good/bad a head coach Jones is.
 
#39
#39
Yeah. There are several guys ahead of him that don't deserve to be. I didn't see anyone in the short list below him that's better than him.
 
#40
#40
KBVol said:
When was Clawson ever our head coach? Just for good measure, the hypothetical answer is no, since his hiring/massive failure went a long way toward ending Fulmer's career. Either way, it's a weird question that has nothing to do with how good/bad a head coach Jones is.
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Fulmer ended Fulmer's career. Clawson was a victim... not the cause.
 
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#41
#41
sjt18 said:
Yeah. There are several guys ahead of him that don't deserve to be. I didn't see anyone in the short list below him that's better than him.
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Same here.
As I posted before, it's not that he should be high, it's just that our fans are mad about our losses (understandable). But because of lack of emotional attachment, they're glossing over the underachieving by a few others listed above him.
 
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#42
#42
BigOrangeMojo said:
http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...ach-rankings-power-five-coaches-ranked-65-26/

52 Volunteers

Butch Jones (33 2016 ranking): A Champion of Life, but not a champion of our rankings. Still, in my opinion, this is a pretty steep drop considering all the injuries Tennessee dealt with last year. Raised expectations will do that, though.


I'm not the biggest Butch cheerleader but it's crazy that he's behind a guy such as Ed Orgeron.

Let me know if you think this ranking is too high, too low, or just right. Without seeing the Top 25, I'd have Butch in the 25-35 range for Power 5 coaches.
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I would say about 40-50 range, and bottom 2 or 3 in the SEC. I love Tennessee football, but I'm definitely not a fan of Lyle.

edit: and I want to add that he would be very high on the list of over-paid coaches in college football based on his pathetic record against top 25 opponents at 4.6 mil.
 
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#43
#43
BigOrangeMojo said:
When a Big 10 guy does the list, you get results like this..

Butch Jones is 3-0 against the Big 10 West while at UT yet he is ranked behind every Big 10 West coach on the list except for Lovie Smith. He is way behind 3 guys that got blown the F out by UT.
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Yep and if he plays them again he will beat them again.
 
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#44
#44
HARTUPM said:
I would say about 40-50 range, and bottom 2 or 3 in the SEC. I love Tennessee football, but I'm definitely not a fan of Lyle.

edit: and I want to add that he would be very high on the list of over-paid coaches in college football based on his pathetic record against top 25 opponents at 4.11 mil.
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Be prepared to be attacked
 
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#45
#45
Aesius said:
Saban tier:
Nick Saban

Elite tier (the rest of the active coaches with NCs):
Urban Meyer
Jimbo Fisher
Dabo Swinney
Bob Stoops (although he's probably closer to "Very Good," I'm including him because having a NC is so rare among active coaches now)

Very good tier:
David Shaw
Jim Harbaugh
Gary Patterson
Chris Petersen
Bobby Petrino

Good tier:
About 30 coaches who are basically interchangeable, including Butch Jones
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Gary Patterson was 6-7 this year.

I wonder how long Michigan puts up with 3rd in the east of the Big Ten before they kick Harbaugh to the curb?
 
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#47
#47
BigOrangeMojo said:
There are 65 Power 5 schools. There are ONLY 12 that have won 9+ games the last two years (Clemson, FSU, Utah, UF, Tennessee, Ohio St, Michigan, WI, Bama, Oklahoma, Ok State, Stanford). I'm not saying this stat should completely overshadow the Game/Program/PR management issues that have been well documented but it should prove that 52 is too low.
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You are using logic. Some of these coaches are ranked higher because of past records, some in weaker and mid-major conferences.
 
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#48
#48
I am beginning to think that most on this board are really NOT VOL fans. Folks defend other schools just to bash the school they supposedly are a fan of.

Seriously? Just go root for someone else please.
 
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#50
#50
KBVol said:
The bad losses trump the good wins imo because the bad losses ultimately defined the outcome of the season. Then throw in the high/fair expectations that he fell short of and there you go, the more harsh ranking rather than the forgiving one.
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I get it. Just don't care. It's too low really, but is 38th or 43rd all that much different than 52? This guy beats fl for the first time in 11 years, goes b2b against uga, beats a good vt team and trounces Nebraska in a bowl.

He loses to USCe and vandy.

Same guy. Same season. Awesome and pitiful simultaneously.
 
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