2017 feels a lot like 1998

#52
#52
46yrvol said:
This line of thinking is easy to latch onto. Like wanting the next QB to be just like Josh Dobbs or just like Peyton Manning, so it is with teams also. Every team and every great player will have their own identity.

So to broaden the perspective consider all the surprise teams in our recent history. Who could have predicted the magic of 1985 or the 89 team bursting onto the scene. 92 saw a rebuilding team surprise everyone until a coaching fiasco interrupted it. 04 saw a Tennessee team with two true freshmen at QB achieve one of the biggest upsets in our history in Athens to take us to Atlanta.

These are what some call Cinderella teams and we had had one every few years until after 04. Hasn't been one for 13 years now. Are we due?
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This, This, and This . . ....

Great post.

All the 98 comparisons are just wishful thinking. Hoping that A+B=C

A. Hope that we're actually drastically underrated.
B. Optimistic with player development, unity, coaching, etc we can evolve and overachieve.
C. The 98 team was drastically underrated and overachieved spectacularly.

As to 92 comparisons....
91 was a letdown year. We we're pis$ed at not winning the SEC. Our Sr. QB Andy Kelly was gone having rewritten the UT record book (and still almost but not quite a legend), Kelly even got thrown into the fire as an underclassmen VS Bama & never looked back. He never beat Bama either. We had 6 players drafted in the 1st four rounds after 91 season. QB going into 92 was pure uncertainty. We knew Heath Shuler & Jerry Colquitt were both uber talented but after Andy Kelly we could only hope the drop off wouldn't be too severe. Sr Todd Kelly was a defensive captain, hello Todd Kelly Jr.
Johnny Majors - "We don't talk about National Championships". Butch, bless his 5 star heart says "compete for championships" all day long. Even Butch and his special 5 star heart isn't crazy enough to talk about the Natty.
I could keep going on and on with parrelels between our 2017 squad to the 92 team.
I'll overdose on Orange kool-aid with joy if 2017 spectacularly overachieves but presently speaking 2017 doesn't compare to 98 at all.
 
#55
#55
Feels like 98 is just a phrase to compensate for the doubt that those overly optomistic fan have about this season.

The scenerio is not the same.
The team is nowhere near the same.
The players are nowhere near the same.

The 98 team was stocked with some of the greatest player in UT history at nearly every position that where proven sec players. This team is not. Its a bunch of "ifs" at nearly every position on the field and a bunch of unproven potential.

It wont be a terrible season i dont think, but its not anywhere close to 98.
 
#56
#56
chuckb1448 said:
The Florida and Arkansas games were my favorite games that year. Was at both and damn did I have a great time! I hope D4H is right....

Go Vols!
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Arky gift-wrapped the BCS championship for us, that year! If it weren't for the fluke fumble, near the end of the game, we would never have seen a championship in 1998! Thank You Center/QB!!! Destiny, I guess?
 
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#60
#60
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I know I said we could be in for another year like 1998 last season. But that was mostly wishful thinking. There really weren't many parallels between 2016 and 1998. I just wanted Dobbs, Sutton, Barnett, Hurd, Kamara, and JRM to go out as champions. If we're being honest, this year resembles 1998 a lot more than last year. In 2016 we were highly touted. We were the favorites to win the East and were even considered a dark horse playoff team. And we still had our legendary senior QB on the team. That's very different from 1998 when we had just lost our legendary senior QB. We were not expected to win the East let alone contend for a national championship.

When I look at 2017, it starts to look a lot like 1998. (1) We no longer have the legendary Josh Dobbs just as we no longer had the legendary Peyton Manning in 1998. (2) We have a long losing streak to Alabama that most feel we have no chance of breaking. In 1998 we had a long losing streak to Florida and most didn't feel we could beat them either. (3) We are being severely underrated by the media. Nobody expects us to win the East let alone compete for a national championship. (4) And like 1998, we still have a ton of talent on campus that is hungry and motivated to prove themselves.

Guys the saying that "this feels like 98" has never been more appropriate. I really think we are in for a special season. We're gonna shock a lot of people with how good we are.
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did you parallel the talent levels?
 
#63
#63
98 feels like 2017?

98 had NFL players across the board and a coach that didn't make excuses.

2017 has some NFL talent and a coach that makes excuses.

No, this doesn't feel like 98.
 
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#64
#64
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You don't think Dobbs is a Tennessee Football legend?

He's only #2 all-time in total TDs scored for a career, #3 all-time in total yards gained for a career, #2 all-time in total yards for a season, and #1 all-time in total TDs for a season. He also averaged more total yards per game and more total TDs per game over his career than Peyton Manning. He led the program to its first back to back 9 win seasons in over a decade and led the program to 3 consecutive bowl wins for the first time in over two decades. That's already a mouth full and I didn't even get to his sterling record of community service, his incredible academic record, and his penchant for unforgettable plays like the Hail Mary against Georgia that will live in Tennessee lore forever.

By the numbers and by the memories he created, Dobbs is the very definition of a Tennessee Football legend.
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By the numbers, he has a .500 record against Vandy, just like his coach.

And you think that is the definition of a UT football legend?
 
#65
#65
tm3 said:
By the numbers, he has a .500 record against Vandy, just like his coach.

And you think that is the definition of a UT football legend?
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Peyton Manning lost to Memphis.

Stuff happens.

That's why you judge players by their overall body of work. Not one highlight or wart on the resume.
 
#66
#66
I came across a 1998 Street and Smiths mag a few days ago. There are some interesting comparisons from that year to this. Florida picked to win the east and the SEC (ranked #3). Vols ranked #12, 2nd in east. Florida had 3 defenders on their pre-season 1st or 2nd all-American teams, Vols had no players on 1st or 2nd team (some honorable mention). Mentioned that Vol defense had to play well for them to get anywhere. Not given much chance for SEC title. Big difference, Bama was not rated.
I seriously doubt they can win the SEC, but I do believe they have a good chance of beating Florida or Georgia, and would not be surprised to see them beat both. GBO.
 
#68
#68
tm3 said:
By the numbers, he has a .500 record against Vandy, just like his coach.

And you think that is the definition of a UT football legend?
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Johnny Majors (as a player) had a losing record (1-2) vs Kentucky. So you don't think he's a UT legend?
 
#69
#69
tm3 said:
By the numbers, he has a .500 record against Vandy, just like his coach.

And you think that is the definition of a UT football legend?
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Last year's Vandy loss was really on the defense, not Dobbs. I do think you have to put Dobbs as one of the top 5 QBs in Vol history, and a excellent rep for the program.
 
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#70
#70
TVOL71 said:
Last year's Vandy loss was really on the defense, not Dobbs. I do think you have to put Dobbs as one of the top 5 QBs in Vol history, and a excellent rep for the program.
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Did you see his last pass of the Vandy game? Horrible decision to check off to Kamara.
I thought his fumble was a BS call by the refs. The ball clearly came out on slow motion replay but the refs blew the whistle well before anyone touched the ball or was in position to make a recovery. It should have been ruled a dead ball. The broadcast left audio out of the replay. But if Dobbs had held on, the refs couldn't have screwed us.
I'm not exonerating the D at all but Dobbs played a part in the Candy loss.

Without criticizing Dobbs, I'm reluctant to call him a legend.

I love numbers and crunching stats but unlike baseball where stats are the end all and tell all in most comparisons and debates, statistics can be exceptionally misleading with football players, particularly when used for the sake of confirmation bias.

Phil Simms 4K+ yards season is absolute proof positive of his elitism that year. He was the first in NFL history to do it. Anyone think Andy Dalton's gonna get that kind of respect if he chips over 4K next year?

Offenses in football have traditionally gone in cyclical trends & copycat patterns over the years predicated by defenses historically shutting them down over the long haul. Basically the teams keep running what works on offense until the D's figure out how to stop it. In the 70's NFL owners started realizing that offense sells tickets. Competition comitees started skewing and revising rules to benefit and help offenses. Safety concerns and rule changes have seemed to benefit offenses more than defenses a well. Similar to the NFL, NCAA football changes with the times.

Meaning the game changes too constantly by adverse conditions that directly effect the statistics produced by the participants.

Football players are by and large remembered and revered for how they played the game.


TL/DR
To be the best you gotta beat the best.
Did Dobbs beat an elite team?
Manning might not have beaten Florida but he beat some elite top 10 teams. Manning could have been a top draft pick a year earlier, but he came back. That's not redneck bias, that's the kinda wholesome Vol-pride Legends are made of.
I'm so grateful for Dobbs and he was the right man at the right time but I'm hesitant to label him a legend. I will still revere him and he is one of my all time favorite Vols.
 
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#71
#71
2017 will need the luck of the 1998 team to go 10-2. This team still isn't ready to take on Bama yet. 2-1 against UF, UGA, and LSU would be a huge accomplishment.
 
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#72
#72
BigOrangeTrain said:
Not even comparable. That 98 defense was just sick. Its the main reason we won the NC.
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I've already been on the record. I believe the 2017 defense will be sick as well. They'll be #1 or #2 in the SEC and top 10 nationally.

We also have a ton of NFL players on that side of the ball.
 
#73
#73
MemphisVol77 said:
Did you see his last pass of the Vandy game? Horrible decision to check off to Kamara.
I thought his fumble was a BS call by the refs. The ball clearly came out on slow motion replay but the refs blew the whistle well before anyone touched the ball or was in position to make a recovery. It should have been ruled a dead ball. The broadcast left audio out of the replay. But if Dobbs had held on, the refs couldn't have screwed us.
I'm not exonerating the D at all but Dobbs played a part in the Candy loss.

Without criticizing Dobbs, I'm reluctant to call him a legend.

I love numbers and crunching stats but unlike baseball where stats are the end all and tell all in most comparisons and debates, statistics can be exceptionally misleading with football players, particularly when used for the sake of confirmation bias.

Phil Simms 4K+ yards season is absolute proof positive of his elitism that year. He was the first in NFL history to do it. Anyone think Andy Dalton's gonna get that kind of respect if he chips over 4K next year?

Offenses in football have traditionally gone in cyclical trends & copycat patterns over the years predicated by defenses historically shutting them down over the long haul. Basically the teams keep running what works on offense until the D's figure out how to stop it. In the 70's NFL owners started realizing that offense sells tickets. Competition comitees started skewing and revising rules to benefit and help offenses. Safety concerns and rule changes have seemed to benefit offenses more than defenses a well. Similar to the NFL, NCAA football changes with the times.

Meaning the game changes too constantly by adverse conditions that directly effect the statistics produced by the participants.

Football players are by and large remembered and revered for how they played the game.


TL/DR
To be the best you gotta beat the best.
Did Dobbs beat an elite team?
Manning might not have beaten Florida but he beat some elite top 10 teams. Manning could have been a top draft pick a year earlier, but he came back. That's not redneck bias, that's the kinda wholesome Vol-pride Legends are made of.
I'm so grateful for Dobbs and he was the right man at the right time but I'm hesitant to label him a legend. I will still revere him and he is one of my all time favorite Vols.
Click to expand...

So basically your argument comes down to he's isn't Peyton Manning so he can't be a legend? My only question to you is are there any other QB legends in Tennessee history? Because if you set the bar at Peyton Manning, that's a very high bar to reach to be called a legend.

I'm not here to say Dobbs is more legendary that Peyton Manning. That would be foolish to say at this time. But there isn't another QB in school history you can say is clearly better than him. We can have arguments back and forth about Shuler and Clausen vs Dobbs but those are legit arguments with points and counterpoints. But based on the numbers he put up and what he accomplished during his time here, Josh Dobbs is definitely in the conversation for being arguably the second best QB in school history. And if you are in the conversation for 2nd best QB in school history to the legendary Peyton Manning, I believe that makes you a legend as well.
 
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#74
#74
I think the best way to see how "98 felt" at the time is to go back and read articles written in that spring before the season. It is very neat to see some of the same sentiments, that's for sure. I don't believe Tennessee is destined for anything particularly special this season, I could see them winning the East though. But going into the 98 season, most gave Tennessee no chance of anything special. It was basically a rebuilding year. T.Martin had made just 18 passes in his college career, Tennessee had just lost 6 all-sec players, 2 all-americans. Peyton Manning had gone. Spurrier was swapping QBs And was poised to make another national title run. Tennessee hadn't beaten them in years at that point. Tennessee had missed its window. Period. The last game Tennessee had played was against Nebraska in the Orange bowl and had gotten destroyed by them 42-17.

They had national championship buzz all around them in 97, if you read sports articles from that year. But they missed out. 98 was just a rebuilding year. As crazy as that seems now in hindsight.
 
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