'12 VA DT Korren Kirven (Bama signee)

#51
#51
flowd82 said:
I like where the poster's head is at and I know what point he is trying to get across, but the offer lists he put down for most of our recruits last year is completely off. Very much inflated. He basically added at least 2 elite SEC schools to each prospect's offer list. Not currently looking at the list, but I know Worley didn't have half of the offers that were listed and there were many others.
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No actually all the players that joshc listed save for possibly Worley and Posey were all highly recruited. I think Worley would have got a little more attention but he commited very early and never waivered. If you disagree bring some facts to back it up. What players on this list are wrong? Arnett, Clear, Couch, Jackson, Johnson, Kerbyson, Lane, Maggitt, Martin, Moore and Richardson all were all highly recruited. Dallas, Coleman and Lanier had very solid offer lists.
 
#52
#52
There is always that marginal space where recruits are being recruited and may even have an "offer" from a school but it may/may not be committable. I would assume all of the schools on the list were recruiting our signees, but I would love to know how many were committable offers. That would be difficult to come up with I am sure.
 
#53
#53
MarathonVol said:
There is always that marginal space where recruits are being recruited and may even have an "offer" from a school but it may/may not be committable. I would assume all of the schools on the list were recruiting our signees, but I would love to know how many were committable offers. That would be difficult to come up with I am sure.
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Probably a little late to get that info...
 
#54
#54
flowd82 said:
I like where the poster's head is at and I know what point he is trying to get across, but the offer lists he put down for most of our recruits last year is completely off. Very much inflated. He basically added at least 2 elite SEC schools to each prospect's offer list. Not currently looking at the list, but I know Worley didn't have half of the offers that were listed and there were many others.
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Going by Scout and Rivals offer list, Worley had offers from UF, FL.St, LSU, Stan, ND and several others. Are you saying those offers are made up? Just asking.
 
#55
#55
GLDunlap said:
No actually all the players that joshc listed save for possibly Worley and Posey were all highly recruited. I think Worley would have got a little more attention but he commited very early and never waivered. If you disagree bring some facts to back it up. What players on this list are wrong? Arnett, Clear, Couch, Jackson, Johnson, Kerbyson, Lane, Maggitt, Martin, Moore and Richardson all were all highly recruited. Dallas, Coleman and Lanier had very solid offer lists.
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I know UT's players were highly recruited. I never said otherwise.

I did say that some player's offer lists were inflated and especially Worleys. Most of those offers weren't commitable. That was reported by many other fan bases during his recruitment.

One thing that would be smart if you remembered. Just because Rivals or Scout list that a prospect has an offer from a school, doesn't mean it is necessarily the case.

I'm no insider and I'm not on any coaching staff so I can't tell you for a fact that any of what he posted was untrue, but it is just from what I gathered reading many articles and such from the last year.

I'll bring some facts to back up my argument when you do. Basing fact off of what Rivals list on the profiles doesn't count.
 
#56
#56
MarathonVol said:
There is always that marginal space where recruits are being recruited and may even have an "offer" from a school but it may/may not be committable. I would assume all of the schools on the list were recruiting our signees, but I would love to know how many were committable offers. That would be difficult to come up with I am sure.
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Your exactly right not all offers are committable and there's no way to know but if a player has offers from several different SEC schools and/or a few other big time programs you can bet he has plenty options besides UT. Once again the point is that all those players were highly recruited and Dooley didn't just get them by default.
 
#57
#57
vol11 said:
Going by Scout and Rivals offer list, Worley had offers from UF, FL.St, LSU, Stan, ND and several others. Are you saying those offers are made up? Just asking.
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I'm not saying they are necessarily "made up", but I am just saying there is a difference between a school recruiting a player and a school offering a player.

Just because Rivals lists that a player has an offer from a school doesn't necessarily make it true. I can think of plenty of examples over the years where Rivals listed a school as offering a player when it wasn't the case.

There are also cases where schools might offer a player, but it isn't necessarily commitable at the time. I know some posters on here don't believe that occurs, but I think it does.

I wasn't trying to downplay UT's recruiting class last year. I think UT had a good class and I was very impressed with it. Most all of UT's signees were heavily recruited by the elite schools of college football, but some of those listed I don't believe had all those offers.
 
#59
#59
IMO...noone sitting on a message board knows if a kids offer is commitable or not. I would also guess that alot of times a kids offer list does not show all his offers unless he makes a call or takes the time to inform services who has offered. If I am a recruit and have commited to Tennessee....I would bet I get alot less calls asking who has offered and where I stand with my recruiting. Would make sense my offer list is not as updated. JMO
 
#60
#60
flowd82 said:
I'm not saying they are necessarily "made up", but I am just saying there is a difference between a school recruiting a player and a school offering a player.

Just because Rivals lists that a player has an offer from a school doesn't necessarily make it true. I can think of plenty of examples over the years where Rivals listed a school as offering a player when it wasn't the case.

There are also cases where schools might offer a player, but it isn't necessarily commitable at the time. I know some posters on here don't believe that occurs, but I think it does.

I wasn't trying to downplay UT's recruiting class last year. I think UT had a good class and I was very impressed with it. Most all of UT's signees were heavily recruited by the elite schools of college football, but some of those listed I don't believe had all those offers.
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Originally you said the list joshc posted was completely off and very much inflated now you say you know these players were heavily recruited by the elite schools but you don't believe they had all those offers. Ok if you agree they were highly recruited by the "elite schools" in college football then what does it matter if they had every offer listed? The whole point of the post was to point out that we were not losing every recruiting battle as previously posted. Thank G-d you were right there to negate any hint of postitivity before it got out of hand.
 
#61
#61
GLDunlap said:
Originally you said the list joshc posted was completely off and very much inflated now you say you know these players were heavily recruited by the elite schools but you don't believe they had all those offers. Ok if you agree they were highly recruited by the "elite schools" in college football then what does it matter if they had every offer listed? The whole point of the post was to point out that we were not losing every recruiting battle as previously posted. Thank G-d you were right there to negate any hint of postitivity before it got out of hand.
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Becuase what is the point in posting nonsense that isn't true? The whole point of the post was to show what other schools offered UT's commits. I just stated that not all of them were true. I don't see what the big deal is.

And if you can't tell why it matters if a prospect is just recruited by a school, but not offered then I don't know what else to say to you. I wasn't trying to "negate any hint of positivity" with my post. I was letting it be known that not all of those offers were valid.
 
#62
#62
Once again what offers on the list were not valid? I already agreed on Posey and Worley but you said the list was completely off and very inflated. What player specifically do you believe didn't have the "committable" offers listed?
 
#63
#63
Back to Korren .... VaTech when it is all said and done. This HS is a pipeline to Blacksburg. Their QB replacing Tyrod is from this HS.
 
#64
#64
lilesrt said:
This. Beating teams like Vanderbilt, Bowling Green, and USF for a player does not make a coach a good recruiter. Especially with the facilities that UT has. How we lost Kimbrow to Vanderbilt is beyond me. It is borderline ridiculous actually. I am tired of being at the mercy of UA, UGA, LSU, and UF for players that we really want. Until we can recruit with the big boys we will stay on the outside looking in competing for slots in the Music
City Bowl.
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Over half of our class from last year had offers from those guys. There goes that theory. Next.
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#66
#66
CobbVol said:
Back to Korren .... VaTech when it is all said and done. This HS is a pipeline to Blacksburg. Their QB replacing Tyrod is from this HS.
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True. Logan Thomas I believe is his name. UT recruited him heavily out of high school during Kiffin's 1 year tenure. I think he was ranked and recruited as a TE by most all schools. Interesting that he is playing QB for VT now. I do believe he played QB in HS though so it shouldn't be too much of a transition.
 
#67
#67
I've been out of pocket since early yesterday, but the list I posted was straight from Rivals' offer list, and I left several big offers off. I anticipated in my post that one might argue that all those offers were not commitable, but if only 50% of them were, then my point was made.
 
#68
#68
joshc said:
I've been out of pocket since early yesterday, but the list I posted was straight from Rivals' offer list, and I left several big offers off. I anticipated in my post that one might argue that all those offers were not commitable, but if only 50% of them were, then my point was made.
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Your list was as accurate as possible. I would add Kerbyson as another player with many solid offers but like you said you more then made your point. Funny how you also predicted the "they were not committable offers" post. Notice he never could name the players that he thought were way off and very inflated.
 
#69
#69
GLDunlap said:
Your list was as accurate as possible. I would add Kerbyson as another player with many solid offers but like you said you more then made your point. Funny how you also predicted the "they were not committable offers" post. Notice he never could name the players that he thought were way off and very inflated.
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:thumbsup: No way to argue that we didn't recruit with the big boys last year, IMO. Could argue that we haven't so far this year, but there are lots of offer still to be made, lots of evals still to be made, and lots of big players still to land. So this years class is still TBD.
 
#70
#70
GLDunlap said:
Your list was as accurate as possible. I would add Kerbyson as another player with many solid offers but like you said you more then made your point. Funny how you also predicted the "they were not committable offers" post. Notice he never could name the players that he thought were way off and very inflated.
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I followed recruitng very close last year and I can tell you that many of those offers listed were not commitable. I'm not trying to say UT didn't have a good recruiting class last year or that UT can't recruit with the elite teams.

Many of UT's recruits last year had big offers. I'm not disputing that and never did. I'm just saying that some of those offers were not commitable and I'll stand by that.

Like I said I followed each player's recruitment pretty close last year and I don't have the best memory and I'm not going digging in player's threads, but I'll do the best I can.

Worley and Posey, like you mentioned, are the most obvious. There are other cases where, the recruits might have received an initial offer from a school, but wasn't able to commit for whatever reason, and missed the boat. I'm pretty sure that was the case with Marlin Lane and others. I'm not saying he would have picked Bama our Auburn over UT, but he really couldn't have if he tried. They were already full by the time he decommited from Clemson.

Same situation with Randolph. UGA offered initially, but they then received commitments from 2 safetys that they had higher ranked than Randolph and Randolph didn't have that offer anymore.

Another troubling thing is the fact that UT took commitments from many recruits that didn't get offers from their instate schools. AJ, Dallas, Posey, and Randolph didn't even get offers from instate UGA. I am glad it worked out that way though since they all look like future contributors.

Also, on the top of my head, I'm pretty sure there is no way Lanier had a commitable offer from UF.

Again my memory is a little off since last year's recruiting cycle, but those are just on the top of my head. It is obvious that UT got some real elite prospects IMO. Arnett, Clear, Richardson could have went just about anywhere in the country. That is a good list that was posted. And that is exactly from Rivals. The fact is some of those offers just weren't commitable for whatever reason. Doesn't mean I am trying to downplay UT's class.
 
#71
#71
flowd82 said:
I followed recruitng very close last year and I can tell you that many of those offers listed were not commitable. I'm not trying to say UT didn't have a good recruiting class last year or that UT can't recruit with the elite teams.

Many of UT's recruits last year had big offers. I'm not disputing that and never did. I'm just saying that some of those offers were not commitable and I'll stand by that.

Like I said I followed each player's recruitment pretty close last year and I don't have the best memory and I'm not going digging in player's threads, but I'll do the best I can.

Worley and Posey, like you mentioned, are the most obvious. There are other cases where, the recruits might have received an initial offer from a school, but wasn't able to commit for whatever reason, and missed the boat. I'm pretty sure that was the case with Marlin Lane and others. I'm not saying he would have picked Bama our Auburn over UT, but he really couldn't have if he tried. They were already full by the time he decommited from Clemson.

Same situation with Randolph. UGA offered initially, but they then received commitments from 2 safetys that they had higher ranked than Randolph and Randolph didn't have that offer anymore.

Another troubling thing is the fact that UT took commitments from many recruits that didn't get offers from their instate schools. AJ, Dallas, Posey, and Randolph didn't even get offers from instate UGA. I am glad it worked out that way though since they all look like future contributors.

Also, on the top of my head, I'm pretty sure there is no way Lanier had a commitable offer from UF.

Again my memory is a little off since last year's recruiting cycle, but those are just on the top of my head. It is obvious that UT got some real elite prospects IMO. Arnett, Clear, Richardson could have went just about anywhere in the country. That is a good list that was posted. And that is exactly from Rivals. The fact is some of those offers just weren't commitable for whatever reason. Doesn't mean I am trying to downplay UT's class.
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Commitable or uncommitable is not the crux of the debate here...only the most elite of elite prospects have truly unconditional offers...all other players receive offers but if for whatever reason a team decides they no longer have room for the given player then that is part of the game...

What matters here is whether or not the player was offered by the elite programs...if they were then that means that the coaching staffs of these elite programs evaluated said prospect and deemed him worthy of an offer...hence, deeming him a player capable of playing at the highest levels...

Whether or not the offer became uncommitable at some point in the process has little meaning in the context of the offer list debate...an offer at any point from the elite programs is proof of what the best of the best programs think of that player
 
#72
#72
flowd82 said:
I followed recruitng very close last year and I can tell you that many of those offers listed were not commitable. I'm not trying to say UT didn't have a good recruiting class last year or that UT can't recruit with the elite teams.

Many of UT's recruits last year had big offers. I'm not disputing that and never did. I'm just saying that some of those offers were not commitable and I'll stand by that.

Like I said I followed each player's recruitment pretty close last year and I don't have the best memory and I'm not going digging in player's threads, but I'll do the best I can.

Worley and Posey, like you mentioned, are the most obvious. There are other cases where, the recruits might have received an initial offer from a school, but wasn't able to commit for whatever reason, and missed the boat. I'm pretty sure that was the case with Marlin Lane and others. I'm not saying he would have picked Bama our Auburn over UT, but he really couldn't have if he tried. They were already full by the time he decommited from Clemson.

Same situation with Randolph. UGA offered initially, but they then received commitments from 2 safetys that they had higher ranked than Randolph and Randolph didn't have that offer anymore.

Another troubling thing is the fact that UT took commitments from many recruits that didn't get offers from their instate schools. AJ, Dallas, Posey, and Randolph didn't even get offers from instate UGA. I am glad it worked out that way though since they all look like future contributors.

Also, on the top of my head, I'm pretty sure there is no way Lanier had a commitable offer from UF.

Again my memory is a little off since last year's recruiting cycle, but those are just on the top of my head. It is obvious that UT got some real elite prospects IMO. Arnett, Clear, Richardson could have went just about anywhere in the country. That is a good list that was posted. And that is exactly from Rivals. The fact is some of those offers just weren't commitable for whatever reason. Doesn't mean I am trying to downplay UT's class.
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Marlin had a commitable offer from Miami, FSU and maybe Auburn after he parted ways with Clemson and committed to Tennessee


AJ Johnson had a commitable offer to Florida when he committed to Tennessee for the second time

Randolph was offered by Georgia but Randolph never seriously considered them Georgia thought he was going to Ga Tech. He chose Tennessee over Tech and Florida

Georgia did offer AJ early before he commited to us the first time. They also offered Randolph but never had a chance with him. They didn't offer Dallas but who cares he had offers from a bunch of great programs and chose us over a committable offer to Florida

Even Posey had a committable offer to Clemson when he commited to us

Still just trying to figure out why you call out joshc list as completely off and very inflated. It wasn't and you just can't admit it. If your motive wasn't to downplay our recruiting then what was it?
 
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#73
#73
I never once said AJ didn't have a UF offer. So I'm not sure why you are posting that.

And I'll give you Miami and maybe AU for Lane after he decommited from Clemson, but he never was a take by FSU. He visited after his decommitment, but they were obviously way done at RB.

And you are just wrong on Randolph. Yes he got the early offer, but he didn't not have interest in them. He was interested in them early in the process, but like I said they took 2 commits early at safety and he got left out. Simple as that. It doesn't really matter though because he did get an offer.

It is obvious to me that you just aren't going to give up in your little argument and that I must have offended you by "calling out JoshC". I know what I am talking about, and if you want to continue thinking "Rivals offer lists" are the end-all-be-all of recruiting then go ahead. I am done with this conversation.
 
#74
#74
this is supposed to be about kirven but flowed just wants to say how many of ut 2012 class didnt get commitable offers,but all players even some high valued players from all schools do some inflating but if they got an offer wether it is commitable or not they were still offered,nega nega nega vol ,i cant stand it.you could be motavating the team and players but you also could bring them down.if your a vol fan hope for the best if you cant do that dont post.it is bad enough that trolls do it.
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#75
#75
volfan414life said:
this is supposed to be about kirven but flowed just wants to say how many of ut 2012 class didnt get commitable offers,but all players even some high valued players from all schools do some inflating but if they got an offer wether it is commitable or not they were still offered,nega nega nega vol ,i cant stand it.you could be motavating the team and players but you also could bring them down.if your a vol fan hope for the best if you cant do that dont post.it is bad enough that trolls do it.
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Lol.
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