Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are CLEARLY the 2 best QBs in the 2018 NFL Draft

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

So you're saying Alvin couldn't get it done? Interesting.

No one player is great enough to win every close game.

The numbers you posted just supported my point. When the games were close, the Saints trusted Alvin to be their bell cow. When they had control and were ahead they used Ingram to milk the clock.

Anyone who watched the Saints knew who was their go to guy when the game was on the line. And that was Alvin.

 

[bamawriter]

No one player is great enough to win every close game.

But I would think a superstar would do better than 40%.

 

[KBVol]

He had one long run that set up the game winning field goal because Alvin was gassed having some all the work to lead the team back from being down 2 TDs in the 4th quarter.

When the Saints were behind it all Alvin. When Alvin got tired, they put Ingram and he had one long run.

Anyone that watched that game knows Ingram was only in to give Alvin a breather after he carried them the entire 4th quarter.

Hold up dude, the actual facts of that game don’t exsctly match your take here. Imagine our shock, our shock I tell ya.

In the entire second half and OT of that game vs Washington, Alvin touched the ball exactly 8 times, 6 carries and 2 catches, for 76 yards.

Are you really trying to sell the idea that AK, a 22 year old elite athlete, was exhausted/needed a breather, was completely worn out, after touching the ball 8 times in 2+ quarters?.....and only 1 time on the last drive in regulation?

Fact is, Alvin scored on the 18 yard (not 98 yard 2-pt conversion run like you’re trying to imply here) 2-pt run....then Washington got the ball, ran 4 plays including the punt, and Ingram then came in and pretty much ended the game with runs of 20 and 31 prior to NO kicking the game winning field goal.

 

[bamawriter]

Hold up dude, the actual facts of that game don’t exsctly match your take here. Imagine our shock, our shock I tell ya.

In the entire second half and OT of that game vs Washington, Alvin touched the ball exactly 8 times, 6 carries and 2 catches, for 76 yards.

Are you really trying to sell the idea that AK, a 22 year old elite athlete, was exhausted/needed a breather, was completely worn out, after touching the ball 8 times in 2+ quarters?.....and only 1 time on the last drive in regulation?

Fact is, Alvin scored on the 18 yard (not 98 yard 2-pt conversion run like you’re trying to imply here) 2-pt run....then Washington got the ball, ran 4 plays including the punt, and Ingram then came in and pretty much ended the game with runs of 20 and 31 prior to NO kicking the game winning field goal.

This.

Kamara caught an 18 yard pass and scored on the 2 yard 2 point conversion. Those were his only touches over the last 3+ minutes of regulation.

D4H wants to argue that he was so exhausted from those touches that, despite having the final minute of regulation(during which Washington ran 5 plays and called a TO), the changeover and coin toss before OT, and Washington's 1st possession of OT, he couldn't pull it together to get the ball for the Saint's OT possession. Those 20 yards were so exhausting that Alvin couldn't get on the field despite having 10 to 12 minutes of real time to compose himself.

So much for being an athletic wonder.

 

[butchna]

This.

Kamara caught an 18 yard pass and scored on the 2 yard 2 point conversion. Those were his only touches over the last 3+ minutes of the game.

D4H wants to argue that he was so exhausted from those touches that, despite having the final minute of regulation(during which Washington ran 5 plays and called a TO), the changeover and coin toss before OT, and Washington's 1st possession of OT, he couldn't pull it together to get the ball for the Saint's OT possession. Those 20 yards were so exhausting that Alvin couldn't get on the field despite having 10 to 12 minutes of real time to compose himself.

So much for being an athletic wonder.

Endurance issues? Not gonna make the HOF that route. :no:

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Hold up dude, the actual facts of that game don’t exsctly match your take here. Imagine our shock, our shock I tell ya.

In the entire second half and OT of that game vs Washington, Alvin touched the ball exactly 8 times, 6 carries and 2 catches, for 76 yards.

Are you really trying to sell the idea that AK, a 22 year old elite athlete, was exhausted/needed a breather, was completely worn out, after touching the ball 8 times in 2+ quarters?.....and only 1 time on the last drive in regulation?

Fact is, Alvin scored on the 18 yard (not 98 yard 2-pt conversion run like you’re trying to imply here) 2-pt run....then Washington got the ball, ran 4 plays including the punt, and Ingram then came in and pretty much ended the game with runs of 20 and 31 prior to NO kicking the game winning field goal.

You can't be this stupid? Right? I mean you do know that in football, just because you don't touch the ball on a possesion doesn't mean you didn't exert energy?

Unlike you I watched that game. Alvin was in for nearly every snap of the 4th quarter. That means he was out there running routes play after play even though he didn't touch the ball. Remember, every receivers runs routes at full speed every play even if they don't get the ball. Are you gonna argue that a player should only be tired if they touch the ball?

It was the game against Washington where Alvin officially became the #1 RB on the Saints. He was in for nearly the entire 4th quarter when they Saints were trying to come back while Mark Ingram was on the sidelines.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

This.

Kamara caught an 18 yard pass and scored on the 2 yard 2 point conversion. Those were his only touches over the last 3+ minutes of regulation.

D4H wants to argue that he was so exhausted from those touches that, despite having the final minute of regulation(during which Washington ran 5 plays and called a TO), the changeover and coin toss before OT, and Washington's 1st possession of OT, he couldn't pull it together to get the ball for the Saint's OT possession. Those 20 yards were so exhausting that Alvin couldn't get on the field despite having 10 to 12 minutes of real time to compose himself.

So much for being an athletic wonder.

Read my last post. You guys are really showing your football ignorance with these posts.

Using this logic, I guess a receiver can't get tired in a game unless he gets a lot of catches?

Touches don't signify a sign of fatigue. Its the number of snaps. In particular the number of consecutive snaps. And like I said earlier, unlike you and KBVol, I actually watched the Saints/Redskins game. I saw Alvin play snap after snap in the 4th quarter as they were making the comeback. Earlier in the game the 2 RBs were rotating from snap to snap. But in the 4th quarter when they were behind, it was all Alvin. That is when he established himself as the #1 RB on the Saints.

Once the comeback was complete and the game went into OT, Sean Payton finally gave Alvin a breather.

Even the most well conditioned athlete can't play as many consecutive snaps as Alvin played in that 4th quarter.

 

[KBVol]

You can't be this stupid? Right? I mean you do know that in football, just because you don't touch the ball on a possesion doesn't mean you didn't exert energy?

Unlike you I watched that game. Alvin was in for nearly every snap of the 4th quarter. That means he was out there running routes play after play even though he didn't touch the ball. Remember, every receivers runs routes at full speed every play even if they don't get the ball. Are you gonna argue that a player should only be tired if they touch the ball?

It was the game against Washington where Alvin officially became the #1 RB on the Saints. He was in for nearly the entire 4th quarter when they Saints were trying to come back while Mark Ingram was on the sidelines.

Hey genius, you’re the one who said the Saints rode Alvin, that he carried the team on his back the entire 4th quarter, he was their “bellcow”, right? .....so how exactly did he do that? By running out to the flat as a safety valve for Brees? By executing a fake handoff from Brees and stepping up to “block” somebody? Is that how a running back “puts his team on his back for an entire quarter”? Cause he sure as hell didn’t much touch the football and gain any yards outside of 6 rushes and 2 catches the entire second half and OT. Lol.

Also, if Alvin “finally became the #1 back” after the Redskins game, why did Ingram still get more touches over the last 6 games? Why did Ingram get 99 touches to AK’s 82? How does that work?

Was AK better than Ingram?....yeah, nobody arguing otherwise, especially not me, who was advocating for Alvin way back when at UT when you wanted him benched in favor of Baylor WR Jalen Hurd. Alvin is better than both Mark Ingram and that Baylor wideout.

But typically, and call me crazy for bringing this up.....but typically, the #1 running back gets most of the running back touches and the #2 running back gets less touches than the #1 running back. It’s a math thing D4H.

 

[bamawriter]

Read my last post. You guys are really showing your football ignorance with these posts.

I played organized football. Did you? I'm far from an amazing athlete, but I'm completely comfortable speaking to the energy that is expended throughout a game.

Using this logic, I guess a receiver can't get tired in a game unless he gets a lot of catches?

Tired? Sure. But unless he's running deep routes on every single play, and actually having the ball thrown to him so that he's having to get physical with a DB, he's not going to be "exhausted." Unless his conditioning is an issue.

Touches don't signify a sign of fatigue. Its the number of snaps.

Not true. A halfback is going to expend a lot more energy carrying the ball and getting tackled than he is staying back to pass block or running a route.

This is, quite clearly, a subject in which you have no experience, much less any expertise.

In particular the number of consecutive snaps. And like I said earlier, unlike you and KBVol, I actually watched the Saints/Redskins game.

For the sake of this discussion, I just watched the end of the game again. Kamara took 6 consecutive snaps on the final drive (including the 2 point conversion). Admittedly, they ran hurry-up between snaps 2 and 5. Kamara only dealt with contact on the two plays in which he touched the ball. Should he have been tired? Sure. They all were. Exhausted? Not if he's in any kind of shape.

I saw Alvin play snap after snap in the 4th quarter as they were making the comeback. Earlier in the game the 2 RBs were rotating from snap to snap. But in the 4th quarter when they were behind, it was all Alvin. That is when he established himself as the #1 RB on the Saints.

Aside from the fact that Alvin doesn't play defense, so he could only play so many consecutive snaps, he wasn't even in for every snap of NO's second-to-last offensive possession in regulation. If you truly watched the game, then you have either forgotten what happened, weren't able to grasp what you were seeing, or you're lying and hoping that I wouldn't take 5 minutes to pull up the game. Whatever the case may be, it results in you being wrong.

Once the comeback was complete and the game went into OT, Sean Payton finally gave Alvin a breather.

So Payton was worried that over ten minutes without seeing the field wasn't enough?

Even the most well conditioned athlete can't play as many consecutive snaps as Alvin played in that 4th quarter.

The most consecutive snaps he played at any point in the 4th quarter was six.

 

[volnbama_]

D4H is now an expert on the Saints. Smh stay away from my teams

 

[TDawg]

Hold up dude, the actual facts of that game don’t exsctly match your take here. Imagine our shock, our shock I tell ya.

In the entire second half and OT of that game vs Washington, Alvin touched the ball exactly 8 times, 6 carries and 2 catches, for 76 yards.

Are you really trying to sell the idea that AK, a 22 year old elite athlete, was exhausted/needed a breather, was completely worn out, after touching the ball 8 times in 2+ quarters?.....and only 1 time on the last drive in regulation?

Fact is, Alvin scored on the 18 yard (not 98 yard 2-pt conversion run like you’re trying to imply here) 2-pt run....then Washington got the ball, ran 4 plays including the punt, and Ingram then came in and pretty much ended the game with runs of 20 and 31 prior to NO kicking the game winning field goal.

You have data in here that is why I am saying HOLD UP on all the HoF talk for AK. He's a hell of a player but the guy has been a part time player for the last 5.5 years with the lone exception being some time at Hutchinson. Have to go back to HS to find a time when he was the bell cow and that doesn't help the chances at the hall. Until he starts getting big numbers while averaging north of 200 carries a year, the Hall is not happening.

Again, VERY GOOD player but like RPs in baseball, numbers look good with less touches. More touches equals more punishment and YPC takes a dive every time. But being gassed after 8 touches and only targeted a few more times than that doesn't add up.

 

[patrick]

That you don't understand basic math, much less the relationship between number of carries to yards per carry in football.

Literally the entire top 10 rushers are within 1 YPC of each other, and Fournette didn't even play in 3 games, but you are arguing that his 3.9 YPC is trash.

I thought it would be fun to look at actual YPC for some notable NFL running backs in order to address the assertion that Leonard Fournette is a "below average football player" and 3.9 YPC is "trash".

Eddie George -- 3.64 YPC -- 10k + rush yds career;

John Riggins -- 3.89 YPC -- 11k + rush yds career; **

Jerome Bettis -- 3.93 YPC -- 13k + rush yds career; **

Thomas Jones -- 3.95 YPC -- 10k + rush yds career;

Ottis Anderson -- 4.01 YPC -- 10k + rush yds career;

Curtis Martin -- 4.01 YPC -- 10k + rush yds career;

Terry Allen -- 4.0 YPC -- 8k+ rush yds career;

Edgerrin James -- 4.0 YPC -- 12k+ rush yds career;

Marcus Allen -- 4.05 YPC -- 12k + rush yds career; **

Franco Harris -- 4.11 YPC -- 12k+ rush yds career; **

The players denoted with ** are Pro Football Hall of Famers - two of which average YPC was sub 4.0.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I thought it would be fun to look at actual YPC for some notable NFL running backs in order to address the assertion that Leonard Fournette is a "below average football player" and 3.9 YPC is "trash".

Eddie George -- 3.64 YPC -- 10k + rush yds career;

John Riggins -- 3.89 YPC -- 11k + rush yds career; **

Jerome Bettis -- 3.93 YPC -- 13k + rush yds career; **

Thomas Jones -- 3.95 YPC -- 10k + rush yds career;

Ottis Anderson -- 4.01 YPC -- 10k + rush yds career;

Curtis Martin -- 4.01 YPC -- 10k + rush yds career;

Terry Allen -- 4.0 YPC -- 8k+ rush yds career;

Edgerrin James -- 4.0 YPC -- 12k+ rush yds career;

Marcus Allen -- 4.05 YPC -- 12k + rush yds career; **

Franco Harris -- 4.11 YPC -- 12k+ rush yds career; **

The players denoted with ** are Pro Football Hall of Famers - two of which average YPC was sub 4.0.

Then I guess it's time to put Alvin Kamara in the Hall of Fame already.

 

[butchna]

Then I guess it's time to put Alvin Kamara in the Hall of Fame already.

Not with those paltry CAREER stats! hmy:

 

[TDawg]

Not with those paltry CAREER stats! hmy:

LOL .. about 10 more years of those maybe but otherwise, ummm no. I have said since Norcross that Alvin was a damn good player. But I don't care if its a UGA player, none of them are a lock for the Hall for quite a few years into their career.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Looks like Josh Allen is exactly what I said he was: LeSean McCoy gushes over Josh Allen: 'He's special' - NFL.com

Remember last year in training camp when Adrian Peterson had effusive praise for Alvin Kamara. Then Alvin went on to be Rookie of the Year. When teammates talk about you like this it means you're a definite baller. Josh Allen is gonna be a SUPERSTAR. Just wait on it.

 

[HoptownVol]

Looks like Josh Allen is exactly what I said he was: LeSean McCoy gushes over Josh Allen: 'He's special' - NFL.com

Remember last year in training camp when Adrian Peterson had effusive praise for Alvin Kamara. Then Alvin went on to be Rookie of the Year. When teammates talk about you like this it means you're a definite baller. Josh Allen is gonna be a SUPERSTAR. Just wait on it.

Awww gheez, as I recall Allen plays the most difficult position in football, can you wait until he's taken his first snap in a regular season game before you declare him a HOF'er? Practice doesn't count last I heard. :good!:

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Awww gheez, as I recall Allen plays the most difficult position in football, can you wait until he's taken his first snap in a regular season game before you declare him a HOF'er? Practice doesn't count last I heard. :good!:

But a teammate said he was good! That means D4H is right!

 

[volfanCLT]

Looks like Josh Allen is exactly what I said he was: LeSean McCoy gushes over Josh Allen: 'He's special' - NFL.com

Remember last year in training camp when Adrian Peterson had effusive praise for Alvin Kamara. Then Alvin went on to be Rookie of the Year. When teammates talk about you like this it means you're a definite baller. Josh Allen is gonna be a SUPERSTAR. Just wait on it.

Former Penn State quarterback Christian Hackenberg receives praise from teammate Josh McCown

 

[hndog609]

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Looks like Josh Allen is exactly what I said he was: LeSean McCoy gushes over Josh Allen: 'He's special' - NFL.com

Remember last year in training camp when Adrian Peterson had effusive praise for Alvin Kamara. Then Alvin went on to be Rookie of the Year. When teammates talk about you like this it means you're a definite baller. Josh Allen is gonna be a SUPERSTAR. Just wait on it.

So that means you also agree Mason Rudolph will be a superstar.....if you're being consistent of course.

Steelers' Antonio Brown: Mason Rudolph, James Washington 'going to be special'

 

[BIG BOI 23]

Looks like Josh Allen is exactly what I said he was: LeSean McCoy gushes over Josh Allen: 'He's special' - NFL.com

Remember last year in training camp when Adrian Peterson had effusive praise for Alvin Kamara. Then Alvin went on to be Rookie of the Year. When teammates talk about you like this it means you're a definite baller. Josh Allen is gonna be a SUPERSTAR. Just wait on it.

Lol I’m pretty sure I can find quotes like this for every player picked in the top 60

 

[KBVol]

Quote today about Josh Allen from Bills beatwriter...

Things going south for Josh Allen in the Bills’ third 11-on-11 period. With third team offense still, he overthrows RB Taiwan Jones and WR Ray-Ray McCloud on consecutive screen passes. Sailed over them.

 

[Vol8188]

Quote today about Josh Allen from Bills beatwriter...

Things going south for Josh Allen in the Bills’ third 11-on-11 period. With third team offense still, he overthrows RB Taiwan Jones and WR Ray-Ray McCloud on consecutive screen passes. Sailed over them.

You’ve always got to be careful taking an inaccurate college QB. Rarely ever works out

 

[KBVol]

You’ve always got to be careful taking an inaccurate college QB. Rarely ever works out

Couldn’t agree more. Game gets much faster, windows get much tighter. He’s gonna struggle mightily imo.