Official Global Warming thread (merged)

#8,179
#8,179
Tesla says "Thank you, California."

California becomes first state to mandate solar panels on new homes | Fox News

California has become the first state in the nation to mandate solar panels for all new homes, in a move to cut greenhouse gas emissions that critics say will end up raising home prices in the already expensive market.

In a unanimous 5-0 vote Wednesday, the California Energy Commission approved the policy.

The regulation will require all homes and apartments built after 2020 to have solar panels, adding an average of roughly $10,000 to construction costs for a single-family home. On the flip side, the commission says, the panels could yield much more in energy savings.

Spokeswoman for the Energy Commission Amber Beck told Fox News that under the new standards, new homes would be expected to reduce energy use by more than 50 percent. She argued that the change will lead to savings in the long run.

“For residential homeowners, based on a 30-year mortgage, the Energy Commission estimates that the standards will add about $40 to an average monthly payment, but save consumers $80 on monthly heating, cooling, and lighting bills,” Beck said in a statement. “On average the 2019 standards will increase the cost of constructing a new home by about $9,500 but will save $19,000 in energy and maintenance costs over 30 years.”
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#8,180
#8,180
#8,181
#8,181
LouderVol said:
not sure how solar panels are going to decrease the cost of maintenance? They protect the roof from the sun, but they also inherently punch holes in the roof that have to be accounted for. not just the anchors, but any wires going into the building, unless they run the conduit down a wall or something.
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I saw the other thread on this after I posted. The insane prices on Cali real estate just got worse since they are "estimating" $10K for the cost up front.

Not taking into account how those prices will rise due to a sudden market demand for them. Thanks to California, we all get to pay increased prices for rooftop solar kits at this point.

Everyone say "thank you California for making green energy that much more expensive."
 
#8,183
#8,183
Grand Vol said:
I saw the other thread on this after I posted. The insane prices on Cali real estate just got worse since they are "estimating" $10K for the cost up front.

Not taking into account how those prices will rise due to a sudden market demand for them. Thanks to California, we all get to pay increased prices for rooftop solar kits at this point.

Everyone say "thank you California for making green energy that much more expensive."
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The tariffs have had an effect on it but as a whole the prices for the components have remained steady with just a slight increase in the cost of panels.
 
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#8,184
#8,184
Mick said:
The tariffs have had an effect on it but as a whole the prices for the components have remained steady with just a slight increase in the cost of panels.
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They weren't mandated before now.

You take a market the size of California with a sudden increase in demand and not expect the price to rise across the board?
 
#8,185
#8,185
Grand Vol said:
They weren't mandated before now.

You take a market the size of California with a sudden increase in demand and not expect the price to rise across the board?
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The demand will increase no doubt. I'm just telling you the state of the market now. The price may go up and it will add the demand for jobs to make and install them. I was even trying to give you a stock tip.
 
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#8,186
#8,186
Mick said:
The demand will increase no doubt. I'm just telling you the state of the market now. The price may go up and it will add the demand for jobs to make and install them. I was even trying to give you a stock tip.
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I'll stick to my whale oil futures. I have this feeling they'll rebound soon.
 
#8,188
#8,188
Grand Vol said:
They weren't mandated before now.

You take a market the size of California with a sudden increase in demand and not expect the price to rise across the board?
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Depending on what this does to new construction in CA, I think it will slow it dramatically and if I'm right you won't see much of an increase.
 
#8,189
#8,189
hog88 said:
Depending on what this does to new construction in CA, I think it will slow it dramatically and if I'm right you won't see much of an increase.
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Perhaps. But how long before California mandates existing structures have to be retrofit?

It's not a great stretch of the imagination to think they wouldn't pull a stunt like that.
 
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#8,190
#8,190
Grand Vol said:
Perhaps. But how long before California mandates existing structures have to be retrofit?

It's not a great stretch of the imagination to think they wouldn't pull a stunt like that.
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They might at some point but that would be drawn out in court for years.
 
#8,192
#8,192
Louder...Holes in the roof can and are dealt with. Plumbing vents, skylights, etc. These are not reason to discount rooftop solar installations.


This just in last month, and if real, is a sea change in the value of a solar installation.. For your reading pleasure.

perovskite use in solar panels

Lifespan of new solar cell technologies to increase tenfold

Phys.org - News and Articles on Science and Technology

More Good News About Coal-Killing Perovskite Solar Cells | CleanTechnica

Techniques of manufacture may increase the lifespan of solar panels 10 fold. From 20 to 200 years.

Before the April announcement above, because the average degradation of solar panels is 1/2% to 1% (most common) per year, it was wise to install more capacity than you use. Say, up to 120% of your estimated needs. In some states, your local electric provider is required by law to buy all the extra electricity produced by your system. Others perform 'Energy Net Metering' of your daytime excess that they receive and credit that against your night time usage.

Net Energy Metering -- Are We Capitalists Or What?

So, you may can get by without a huge battery backup like the Tesla Powerwall. And that helps mitigate the long term cost of your installation.

While the Tesla tiles are much more expensive and have the right aesthetics, They cost a lot more, will not include the perovskite advancements. Give it some time the above advancements to make it into the product stream, and anyone building a new home will be foolish if they don't include a solar system in their home specs.
 
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#8,194
#8,194
10k on 500k home is nothing. even on a 300k home its not much. and in Cali you aren't getting much cheaper. I don't think the cost thing is nearly as bad as some make it. even if its mandated its a feature they can sell, vs the older product that won't have it.
 
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#8,195
#8,195
LouderVol said:
10k on 500k home is nothing. even on a 300k home its not much. and in Cali you aren't getting much cheaper. I don't think the cost thing is nearly as bad as some make it. even if its mandated its a feature they can sell, vs the older product that won't have it.
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I think it said 10k on average so the bigger the home wouldn't the cost rise along with the sq footage? Now granted a 500k house in most of CA is not much bigger than a shoe-box but it will have an impact both in purchase and rental.
 
#8,196
#8,196
hog88 said:
I think it said 10k on average so the bigger the home wouldn't the cost rise along with the sq footage? Now granted a 500k house in most of CA is not much bigger than a shoe-box but it will have an impact both in purchase and rental.
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Also panels degrade, inverters die, batteries lose capacity, etc. Those will need to be replaced and something done with the resulting waste.
 
#8,197
#8,197
hog88 said:
I think it said 10k on average so the bigger the home wouldn't the cost rise along with the sq footage? Now granted a 500k house in most of CA is not much bigger than a shoe-box but it will have an impact both in purchase and rental.
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Haven't read the proposed code, but I am curious if they are mentioning a minimum size? I would imagine its that than a prescriptive, "you have to produce 50% of your own energy". in which case its a fixed cost, no matter the size of the house. I guess it just depends on how they write it.
 
#8,198
#8,198
Berkeley at it again...

Berkeley Declares A ‘Climate Emergency,’ Calls For Population Control | The Daily Caller

The California city that was home to 1960s radicals and known for excessively liberal politics declared a “climate emergency” on Tuesday evening, backing policies to “humanely stabilize” the human population.

The Berkeley City Council unanimously voted to mobilize other California governments “to initiate a just local, state, national, and global climate emergency mobilization to restore a safe climate.”

The council’s resolution, introduced by Council Member Cheryl Davila, warned that man-made global warming was “driving a global fresh water scarcity crisis and the sixth mass extinction of species, which could devastate much of life on earth for the next 10 million years.” The resolution calls for a World War II-level mobilization effort to fight global warming.

To accomplish this, “requires an effort to preserve and restore half Earth’s biodiversity in interconnected wildlife corridors and to humanely stabilize population,” the resolution claims.
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