Coach Butch Jones,how long a leash does he have ?

#226
#226
CountVolcula said:
If we lose to Utah State, the leash turns into a noose
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It'll make next season critical if it happens. My guess is another 5 win season and they hide behind strength of schedule even though it's their own fault for not getting out of the Oklahoma game. Nobody is getting fired this year even if they go 0-12 and the recruiting class falls apart, which is why I find it hard to care much at this point. We're back to the same zero accountability situation that put us where we are now with the big difference being that recruiting is trending upwards rather than downwards.
 
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#227
#227
AndyMizunogolfer said:
You already play the best teams in the country in the SEC. There is no reason while rebuilding to play games like this. There is no benefit from it.
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Midwestern recruiting. That's the benefit. This game was scheduled in 2005. UF has the luxury of playing all of their OOC games in the state of FL because of the HS talent in the state.

UT doesn't have that luxury. They have to schedule high profile OOC games.

Cancelling the OU game and replacing them with a scrub team doesn't show improvement. Take last season if UT didn't play Oregon but played Troy instead. So what if UT won 6 games and went to a crappy bowl? Is that considered successful? IMO, no! UT still lost to UF, UGA, Bama, Auburn, Mizzou, and Vandy.
 
#228
#228
AndyMizunogolfer said:
You already play the best teams in the country in the SEC. There is no reason while rebuilding to play games like this. There is no benefit from it.
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And no reason to debate this...we're not ducking games anymore...Dooley is not the coach...Hamilton is not the AD.
 
#229
#229
We won't finish where we now are in recruiting if there’s another losing season this year. We're not chocked full with legacies and in state kids this time and opposing staffs will make hay with back to back losing seasons as they move in to flip our current commitments come November. Best to pray for a couple of upsets, unless you're a masochist who enjoys rooting for a perennial loser ala Cubs fans.
 
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#230
#230
Boca Vol said:
Regardless of the W/L record this season, Butch's leash is significantly longer than Dooley's and rightfully so.

1st, he's embraced the alumni and fan base to create this "we're all in this together" feeling.

2nd, UT isn't in any financial situation to go through another carousel.

3rd, he's recruiting his tail off.

Butch is doing his part in the deal. He's doing everything off the field you want your head coach to do. NOW, he needs to take it to the field. I'll admit that I'm not a huge fan of all the slogans and stuff, but if the kids like it and react to it that's great. I'll get over it!

What I'm looking for is a team that competes for 60 minutes. Win or lose, I can deal with that. A big part of that is not going into a gun fight with a butter knife. That's would take its toll on Neyland, Rockne, or Bryant.
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Very well said. Sums up my opinion on his current tenure.
Butch has done the things within his current control to essentially extend his "leash". That's a great thing.
 
#231
#231
Boca Vol said:
Midwestern recruiting. That's the benefit. This game was scheduled in 2005. UF has the luxury of playing all of their OOC games in the state of FL because of the HS talent in the state.

UT doesn't have that luxury. They have to schedule high profile OOC games.

Cancelling the OU game and replacing them with a scrub team doesn't show improvement. Take last season if UT didn't play Oregon but played Troy instead. So what if UT won 6 games and went to a crappy bowl? Is that considered successful? IMO, no! UT still lost to UF, UGA, Bama, Auburn, Mizzou, and Vandy.
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A crappy bowl compared to no bowl would have helped us this year with the youth we have that will be playing. I realize when OR and OU games were scheduled we didn't suck this bad. Although I really feel that we should have bought the OR game out last year. That game did us no favors.
 
#232
#232
I'm new to the forum, but not to the Vols and forums like this.

Why would we be questioning what Butch is doing when his first true class enters this year, ranked in the top 5? Now, it isn't all about recruiting, I think we know that. However, his athletes are becoming STUDENT-athletes, as UT's grades have improved. You haven't heard of one of his players robbing a store, throwing beer bottles off balconies, etc. Instead, they're doing things like building Habitat houses. He's embraced the tradition, the value, and the pride that comes with being at the University of Tennessee. Do we want to win? ABSOLUTELY. But, it takes more than a year and one freshman class. It's not Butch's fault that Fulmer got lazy, Kiffin went crazy, and Dooley sucked...all with the help of Mike Hamilton.
 
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#233
#233
Josh_OCN said:
Why would we be questioning what Butch is doing when his first true class enters this year, ranked in the top 5?
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We have to question, because others will make every allowance and excuse imaginable. His "first true class"? Really? The actual first one doesn't count? What other coach gets to say that? Did he not get paid for last year?

Zero accountability got us where we are today and it looks like some folks want to keep that tradition alive.
 
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#234
#234
oregonvol said:
We have to question, because others will make every allowance and excuse imaginable. His "first true class"? Really? The actual first one doesn't count? What other coach gets to say that? Did he not get paid for last year?

Zero accountability got us where we are today and it looks like some folks want to keep that tradition alive.
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No. But, the first one was a rushed class. This one is more about him as a coach and his system. Looks like some folks just want to keep the bickering and bleacher coaching alive. Let's just go grab Gruden right now so everyone is satisfied.
 
#235
#235
Josh_OCN said:
No. But, the first one was a rushed class. This one is more about him as a coach and his system. Looks like some folks just want to keep the bickering and bleacher coaching alive. Let's just go grab Gruden right now so everyone is satisfied.
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Just about every coach who gets hired has the same couple of months timespan to get a class together as Butch had. Do you really not count the actual first class of any coach who is ever hired?
 
#236
#236
KBVol said:
What if both sides of the ball are vastly improved but it doesn't show in the record?

For example, rather than losing to a top 5 team like Oregon on the road 59-14, we lose to a top 5 Okla on the road 28-27 on a last second 50 yd field goal. What if rather than lose to Alabama 45-10 we lose 31-30?

What if we score many more points, gain many more yards, give up fewer points and cause more turnovers but still lose 7 games and miss a bowl game again? Is it still automatic that we fire either or both Coordinators?
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Then, if that's how it is, we should have kept Fulmer and never aspired to be good!
 
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#237
#237
oregonvol said:
Just about every coach who gets hired has the same couple of months timespan to get a class together as Butch had. Do you really not count the actual first class of any coach who is ever hired?
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I "count" it. But, I don't put any stock into it. Especially with a program as down as Tennessee has been. It'd be different, say, if Alabama had to hire a coach next January. I'd say that month and a half class may look pretty good.
 
#238
#238
This fan base as a whole is tired of losing. Jones and company know that and I have no doubt that he's gonna do his best to try and turn things around. I believe CBJ is sincere about what he preaches about the program. If he doesn't pan out, it definitely won't be because he didn't give it 150%. He's working his a$$ off, so I'll absolutely NEVER question his work ethic. He knows that this is a tired fanbase and understands the frustration from the fans, I have no doubt about that.
 
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#240
#240
checkerboards09 said:
This fan base as a whole is tired of losing. Jones and company know that and I have no doubt that he's gonna do his best to try and turn things around. I believe CBJ is sincere about what he preaches about the program. If he doesn't pan out, it definitely won't be because he didn't give it 150%. He's working his a$$ off, so I'll absolutely NEVER question his work ethic. He knows that this is a tired fanbase and understands the frustration from the fans, I have no doubt about that.
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"Do his best"???? He's getting paid to WIN! 3 Million to be exact. I'm sure Dooley did his best to!
 
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#241
#241
knoxvols11 said:
Then, if that's how it is, we should have kept Fulmer and never aspired to be good!
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Is it possible that you could've possibly missed the point of the question anymore than you did? Probably not.

Guy I responded to wants either Coordinator fired if we don't get to a bowl game....NO MATTER WHAT.

I simply posited the idea, with my question, that perhaps that's not the greatest idea, after only year 2, if both sides of the ball are showing highly significant improvements, which my scenarios via 1 point losses to Oklahoma and Alabama would suggest as compared to the 45 and 35 point blowouts from last year.
 
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#242
#242
knoxvols11 said:
"Do his best"???? He's getting paid to WIN! 3 Million to be exact. I'm sure Dooley did his best to!
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Yes, "do his best". Was Dooley doing anything remotely close to what CBJ is doing when it comes to making in state talent a top priority, allowing alumni to come and go as they please, being relentless in recruiting, and actually looking like he gave a d*** at all? That's just it with Dooley, he looked stupid on our sidelines and acted as if he was here just to collect those millions and didn't wanna earn it. Jones did more in his first 6 months than Dooley could ever dream of doing in all three if his nightmarish years. I know Jones needs to win, but like I said, EFFORT won't be the problem IF he doesn't work out.
 
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#243
#243
Maybe effort wont but if it doesn't work out then everyone on here (includeing) the sunshine pumpers will dog him out just like they did Dooley! He's not getting paid to talk! He's not getting paid to recruit!-We could have hired Ron Zook for less to do that! He's not getting paid 3 mil to shake hands with our great alimni! He's not getting paid 3 mil to keep the score close! He is getting paid THREE MILLION DOLLARS to win! That's the bottom line and that is what he's getting paid to do!
 
#245
#245
knoxvols11 said:
Maybe effort wont but if it doesn't work out then everyone on here (includeing) the sunshine pumpers will dog him out just like they did Dooley! He's not getting paid to talk! He's not getting paid to recruit!-We could have hired Ron Zook for less to do that! He's not getting paid 3 mil to shake hands with our great alimni! He's not getting paid 3 mil to keep the score close! He is getting paid THREE MILLION DOLLARS to win! That's the bottom line and that is what he's getting paid to do!
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Yes I know this, I know it comes down to wins, but you gotta like the effort that we're seeing. I'm not arguing the win/loss thing at all, we all know that. I'm just saying you gotta feel better SO FAR with what Butch has done compared to where Dooley was at this same time in his tenure. It's not that hard to understand.
 
#248
#248
SouthKnoxVOL said:
Some people will never learn. Fire him in year 3..... THAT'S WHY UT IS IN THIS MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! IF Hart fires Jones after his 3rd year....then tell me who the f*** will want to coach here after going through 4 coaches in under 10 years.....pure stupidity.
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If Butch can't get us to a bowl game within 3 years, our program already became worse than the Dooley era.
 
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