I was so wrong...

#76
#76
Of course he's still gotta win on the field. Nobody could've won last year as the head coach. We hardly had the talent. Yet, we still beat South Carolina. But yes...I don't think anybody would've predicted this type of recruiting. He's brought back the energy to this program that's so desperately been needed.
 
#77
#77
I think butch was a really good hire so far.......... If I look at it from a positive point of view, yes we beat USC and almost beat UGA and had some really good team building stuff happen and we were TWO plays away from being 8-4.
But negative we were TWO plays away from being 4-8, with ALMOST losing to USA and USC.

I still think butch has to prove his gameday prep with ALOT of vols fans me including me but think we are on the right track towards bowl games and wins over rivals.

I agree with this....
 
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#78
#78
I guess beating a ranked opponent for the first time in 4 years didn't mean much to some fans. I think we finish 7-6 with the 7th win being a lower bowl game. But, next year we will have the depth to compete at the highest level. We're still not there yet. But I'm patient when I know the right things are being done off the field!
 
#79
#79
I guess beating a ranked opponent for the first time in 4 years didn't mean much to some fans. I think we finish 7-6 with the 7th win being a lower bowl game. But, next year we will have the depth to compete at the highest level. We're still not there yet. But I'm patient when I know the right things are being done off the field!

Gene Chizik won a national championship. Do you think HE's a good coach?

IT'S TOO EARLY TO TELL!!
 
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#82
#82
he can recruit them. we still dont know if he can turn that into wins on the field in the SEC.

But he gets the credit he deserves so far.

He has won every where he has coached and won big. I have every reason to believe he will win at Tennessee and I take in account that we play in the SEC.
 
#83
#83
Wait. What are you getting at here?

That Jones has a way of building a program according to his ideal that disallows convenient choices that MIGHT result in more apparent success early.

Some guys "throw it all at them and see what sticks". Someone with the Fulmer approach probably would have had more relative success last fall. Hopefully Jones stubbornness about building from the foundation up will pay off.
 
#87
#87
Gene Chizik won a national championship. Do you think HE's a good coach?

IT'S TOO EARLY TO TELL!!

Chizik and Malzahn are living proof that a great coordinator plus some great players can carry an absolutely horrible coach. Based on his resume at Iowa St... I have no earthly idea how Chizik got the Auburn job in the first place.
 
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#88
#88
Butch hasn't done anything yet,....only thing he has proven is that he can motivate and get a team to work together. Coaching on Sun.-Fri. is a lot different than getting it done on Saturday.

Fine,...last year was what it was,...this year better be atleast 7-5 then a Bowl. Win or Lose barely matters with a record like that, just get there.

2015 needs to show more growth, Top 25 or better type growth.
 
#89
#89
Agree.

Recruiting/Off the field ....A+
2013 Gameday coaching/preparation ....D

Explain your breakdown of 2013.

If Georgia / USC was A
Other wins = B

And Florida / Vandy was F
Other losses = D

Average = C

Why do you rank him a D?

EDIT: I realize UGA was not a win, but coaching/game prep was an A. JMO
 
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#91
#91
Explain your breakdown of 2013.

If Georgia / USC was A
Other wins = B

And Florida / Vandy was F
Other losses = D

Average = C

Why do you rank him a D?

EDIT: I realize UGA was not a win, but coaching/game prep was an A. JMO

Agree that SoCar and Georgia games were Butch's A games. Those were excellent.

Given that our other losses were by a combined score of 190-50 (avg score 47-12), I gave the other losses an "F" along with the Vandy game.....we weren't remotely competitive in any of those games.

Additionally, I wouldn't give the So Alabama win a "B", more C to D-ish.

IMHO, he was a "D" coach on game days.
 
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#92
#92
join the crowd 90 percent did not like the hire, the man said from the start give him a chance and he would bring us back to the GLORY DAYS, I KNOW WE ARE A WAYS FROM IT, BUT WE ARE ON OUR WAY BACK AND THE BUTCHER IS A MAN OF HIS WORD.
 
#93
#93
Explain your breakdown of 2013.

If Georgia / USC was A
Other wins = B

And Florida / Vandy was F
Other losses = D

Average = C

Why do you rank him a D?

EDIT: I realize UGA was not a win, but coaching/game prep was an A. JMO

WKU- B
APSU- C (what less would you have expected?)
Oregon- D- (OK to lose, not OK to be totally uncompetitive)
UF- D- (very beatable team, poor decision to start Peterman)
USA- D (close win over a team that they should have smashed)
UGA- B (would be an A if not for the volume of injuries to UGA that probably kept it close)
USCe- A
Bama- F (team looked neither prepared nor inspired to play)
Mizzou- F (loss OK... blowout No)
Auburn- C
Vandy- F
UK- C

1.58 GPA- "D"
 
#94
#94
The jury is still out on Jones. People have been praising him all offseason and speaking of him as if he had already restored the UT program to greatness. Watch those same people blast him after this season if the Vols go 5-7 or so. He may be all that and more, but he has not proven it yet and likely will not in 2014. UT fans will find out if he is the man for the job in 2015. If he trips or stumbles in 2015, he is going to feel the heat.

You my friend understand recruiting, transitioning that recruiting to play on the field, our ridiculous fan base, and football in general. EXCELLENT POST !
 
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#95
#95
last year wasn't great coaching but have any of you not been on the field when you are outmanned? Outsized, outdepth and outspeed. Add in a totally new system and it's a mess. I've been on the field or court before when we knew what was coming and there wasn't anything we could do about it. That's not an excuse. It's a fact. People complaining about the blowouts are clueless as to how little talent we have had. If you have any damn questions, look at the nfl draft the past few years and the last db or lb we had taken in the draft was Eric Burry, Ericburry. In '09. It's '14
Yes the Vandy game sucked. Yes the SC game was awesome. Usually an outmanned team will win one they shouldn't and lose one they shouldn't and that's what happened.
Worst part is if poor Pig doesn't try to help his qb, last years team is bowling and erybody isn't pissed off or questioning the coaches, though we are trying to stop the all time SEC leading receiver with Max Arnold, Swafford, Toney and #47 linebacker on the field on the last drive. That's not happening again.
 
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#96
#96
last year wasn't great coaching but have any of you not been on the field when you are outmanned? Outsized, outdepth and outspeed. Add in a totally new system and it's a mess. I've been on the field or court before when we knew what was coming and there wasn't anything we could do about it. That's not an excuse. It's a fact. People complaining about the blowouts are clueless as to how little talent we have had. If you have any damn questions, look at the nfl draft the past few years and the last db or lb we had taken in the draft was Eric Burry, Ericburry. In '09. It's '14
Yes the Vandy game sucked. Yes the SC game was awesome. Usually an outmanned team will win one they shouldn't and lose one they shouldn't and that's what happened.
Worst part is if poor Pig doesn't try to help his qb, last years team is bowling and erybody isn't pissed off or questioning the coaches, though we are trying to stop the all time SEC leading receiver with Max Arnold, Swafford, Toney and #47 linebacker on the field on the last drive. That's not happening again.

Agreed 100%
 
#97
#97
If the player(s) would have executed last year we would have been 7-5, with wins over two ranked teams. Is that on Jones' coaching or the players inability to execute?

The flip side to this argument is North's catch against USC. Was that coaching or a player making a great play?

The bottom line is the coach is on the hook. We're quick to blame Dooley for EVERYTHING when he, too, had to account for injuries to key players. When you make Million$$, it comes with the territory. Butch is no different. He'll be judged whether or not he wins games.
 
#98
#98
WKU- B
APSU- C (what less would you have expected?)
Oregon- D- (OK to lose, not OK to be totally uncompetitive)
UF- D- (very beatable team, poor decision to start Peterman)
USA- D (close win over a team that they should have smashed)
UGA- B (would be an A if not for the volume of injuries to UGA that probably kept it close)
USCe- A
Bama- F (team looked neither prepared nor inspired to play)
Mizzou- F (loss OK... blowout No)
Auburn- C
Vandy- F
UK- C

1.58 GPA- "D"

UGA's injuries means Butch is downgraded.

UT's injuries against Mizz have no factor on grade.

That seems incongruous.
 
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#99
#99
The bolded is hor$ecrap.

In an effort to give the benefit of the doubt, I am willing to accept that Jones has a methodical way of building and changing that may sacrifice early on in order to build a foundation.

For instance, Fulmer used to say "we'll throw it all at them and see what sticks". He was constantly in one form or another customizing his O to his players. There wasn't very much discipline to that approach though. Perhaps Jones is the type that says, "This is our system and we build it from the ground up. We execute the base/fundamental elements to standard then build up from there."

If that's the case then I actually prefer what he's doing strongly... AND we should see visible, incremental improvement this fall.

But this whole line that there was not enough talent left to have had a better season last fall simply isn't true. He wasn't left a team that should have beaten Bama or won the East... but he wasn't left a team that couldn't have competed better and won 6 or 7 games either UNLESS there was an intentional, philosophical, strategic reason for doing it.

This is what I'm thinking as well. I think the reason we had a lot of those blow outs last year was because the players were young and couldn't grasp the "fundamentals" of the offense. I think Butch and co have a system that says first this or these plays then those then these until the whole play book is open and any play can be called with faith in the players that it will be executed.
 
last year wasn't great coaching but have any of you not been on the field when you are outmanned? Outsized, outdepth and outspeed.
Yes. Almost every game. But we were taught to execute, execute, execute. If we only ran 5 plays we were going to execute them to absolute perfection.

And therein lies my hope for what Jones might have been doing last year that resulted in subpar results. It is my hope that he's just the type to say "By golly, we're going to perfect the base O and base D before we work on anything else." If that IS the reason that the team only won 5 games and was uncompetitive too often last fall then we can truly look forward to great things.

However if last year's use of available talent was really the absolute best this staff can do... then it doesn't matter how well they recruit. UT will not make it completely back to the top until there's another change.

I've been on the field or court before when we knew what was coming and there wasn't anything we could do about it.
I'm not sure we ever played anyone who didn't have better athletes than we did. We played a division above the actual size of our school. During my 3 years we were 32-5 including a 14-0 state championship run. Four of our losses were to teams that won state championships in the same season we lost to them. At least 3 of those teams had players who played professionally later on. We didn't have a single player that played above the FCS level.

Coaching, development, team, and execution are FAR bigger factors than many of you want to admit.

I can accept that as a reason for last fall... I reject the attempts of folks like you to throw players under the bus or distort the level of their talent in a vain effort to avoid placing blame on the coaches.

That's not an excuse. It's a fact. People complaining about the blowouts are clueless as to how little talent we have had.
Completely false. Several teams with significantly less talent than UT had were more competitive than UT against all 4 teams that blew UT out. Again, if you want to say that the inability to compete was a function of a willful decision to build "brick by brick" only adding "bricks" when the foundation of understanding/execution was in place... I'm with you. Lack of talent? Sorry. But no.

If you have any damn questions, look at the nfl draft the past few years and the last db or lb we had taken in the draft was Eric Burry, Ericburry. In '09. It's '14
Look at the NFL draft over the past few years. How many players total have been taken from Ark St, Toledo, or Indiana? All were more competitive vs Mizzou than UT was.

How about Ga State? Bama beat UT about as easily as them. Colorado St was more game that UT too. I don't think either of those schools are loading NFL rosters, are they?

If you want we can keep going through opponents. UT's roster last year had enough talent to win 6-7 games and to NOT be uncompetitive in 4.


Yes the Vandy game sucked. Yes the SC game was awesome. Usually an outmanned team will win one they shouldn't and lose one they shouldn't and that's what happened.
Despite what many of you think. The USCe game was a reasonably good match up talent wise with particular position match ups that favored UT. The coach UT needs will NOT make a habit out of losing to teams that have less talent and WILL make a habit of beating teams with more.

That IS according to Daj Jones' history... he has to repeat it at UT.

Worst part is if poor Pig doesn't try to help his qb, last years team is bowling and erybody isn't pissed off or questioning the coaches, though we are trying to stop the all time SEC leading receiver with Max Arnold, Swafford, Toney and #47 linebacker on the field on the last drive. That's not happening again.

Poor Pig was trying to help his QB? I thought he was trying to win the game. How is that helping Worley any more than any other player on the team?
 

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