Zimmerman Trial

#227
#227
Vol8188 said:
A 17 year old who we later find out has a history of theft.
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But Zimmerman is white ...... Well somewhat..... And a sweet looking 12 year old black boy.....that was actually 17 and over six feet tall was shot....it's classic white on black crime if I've ever seen it
 
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#228
#228
lawgator1 said:
The State really has no choice. She claimed to hear a bunch of important stuff. Whether they believe her, or think she makes a good witness, is irrelevant.
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Some of her testimony was valuable to the defense. She placed Martin far from the shooting scene, near where he was staying and out of breath from running so far away from Zimmerman. He could have just gone inside, but he did not. Then she described him talking in a low voice for the next few minutes, that is the time he was backtracking to stalk and confront Zimmerman.
 
#229
#229
Vol Main said:
Some of her testimony was valuable to the defense. She placed Martin far from the shooting scene, near where he was staying and out of breath from running so far away from Zimmerman. He could have just gone inside, but he did not. Then she described him talking in a low voice for the next few minutes, that is the time he was backtracking to stalk and confront Zimmerman.
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I'm sure they'll argue that its at least possible, and therefore a reasonable doubt exists.
 
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#230
#230
Vol Main said:
Some of her testimony was valuable to the defense. She placed Martin far from the shooting scene, near where he was staying and out of breath from running so far away from Zimmerman. He could have just gone inside, but he did not. Then she described him talking in a low voice for the next few minutes, that is the time he was backtracking to stalk and confront Zimmerman.
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She might have. But it's still potentially hearsay. "Trayvon told me on the phone where he was" doesn't give a first hand account of the actual location. While it's testimony, the lawyer group on here can tell you this kind of testimony is often tossed out as unreliable, even from a first hand source. Problem is, there is no way of telling whether or not she's telling the truth about it since her track record sucks about right now. The defense did a pretty good job of showing the jury just that.

On a side note, not sure if I've ever seen a witness so hostile towards a lawyer before in my life, save movies that make things up.
 
#231
#231
The more this thing goes on and the more facts (or lack thereof) comes to light, the more this trial looks like a political prosecution. I have yet to hear of any facts that would support an affidavit of probable cause - and this is after 3 days of the State presenting its witnesses!

Seriously - the prosecutors have come no where even remotely close to bringing forth evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman should be held guilty of 2nd degree murder. At this point, it would be unreasonable if you didn't have doubt as to Zimmerman's guilt.

If I was a member of the Florida bar, I would be furious at Angela Corey for using this trial as some type of reelection campaign. Nothing has been presented that calls into question Zimmerman's claim of self-defense. This legal circus is an embarrassment to the entire legal profession, and it is this type of stuff that gives lawyers a bad name.
 
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#232
#232
Vol4LifeLCA said:
The more this thing goes on and the more facts (or lack thereof) comes to light, the more this trial looks like a political prosecution. I have yet to hear of any facts that would support an affidavit of probable cause - and this is after 3 days of the State presenting its witnesses!

Seriously - the prosecutors have come no where even remotely close to bringing forth evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman should be held guilty of 2nd degree murder. At this point, it would be unreasonable if you didn't have doubt as to Zimmerman's guilt.

If I was a member of the Florida bar, I would be furious at Angela Corey for using this trial as some type of reelection campaign. Nothing has been presented that calls into question Zimmerman's claim of self-defense. This legal circus is an embarrassment to the entire legal profession, and it is this type of stuff that gives lawyers a bad name.
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This....it was perpetuated by a media circus that kept showing an image of 12 year old Trayvon and claiming a he was murdered on his way home from buying candy
 
#233
#233
Grand Vol said:
She might have. But it's still potentially hearsay. "Trayvon told me on the phone where he was" doesn't give a first hand account of the actual location. While it's testimony, the lawyer group on here can tell you this kind of testimony is often tossed out as unreliable, even from a first hand source. Problem is, there is no way of telling whether or not she's telling the truth about it since her track record sucks about right now. The defense did a pretty good job of showing the jury just that.

On a side note, not sure if I've ever seen a witness so hostile towards a lawyer before in my life, save movies that make things up.
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Hearsay or not, the judge allowed the jury to hear the testimony. It was not tossed out. I do not recall the defense objecting to it. The defense seemed issue specific about impeaching the points she made. It discredited some of it while emphasizing other parts which bolstered Zimmerman's story.

So far, all but one of the prosecution witnesses with damaging testimony were very flaky. They were all women, which makes me wonder if there was some point in selecting a female jury. I don't really understand why they did that.
 
#234
#234
Another neighbor testifying that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman during the altercation.

The prosecution is really struggling to paint Zimmerman as the agressor.
 
#235
#235
Defense pretty much got it in the bag now. Even if Zimmerman was initial aggressor, he can still successfully argue self defense so long as he: 1) withdrew from physical contact w/ TM; 2) indicated clearly to TM that he wanted to withdraw or terminate his use of force; and 3) TM continued the use of force.

Don't see how State can meet its burden.
 
#237
#237
Unless the prosecution is saving a really strong witness, this thing is all over but the shouting.

If I'm the Defense, the only witness I call is the doctor to testify to Zimmerman's injuries. There is no reason to go any further.
 
#240
#240
lawgator1 said:
From what I am reading this witness is saying TM was on top and straddling GZ, punching him and analogizing to MMA.
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Yep, in the witness's words. Trayvon was using the ground and pound technique on Zimmerman and in his opinion Zimmerman was yelling for help.
 
#242
#242
i am still saying guilty of something, maybe manslaughter, just so there wont be riots or something to that effect. the outcry for an arrest was to big for all this to go down the way it has. but the prosecutions case has fallen flat on it face
 
#243
#243
hog88 said:
Is this a state witness?
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State puts on all eye witnesses. Their job is to win, yes, but they are tasked by the system with putting on the good and the bad for their case. They are held to a much higher standard in terms of embracing testimony that hurts their effort to convict.

It is what they are supposed to do.
 
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#244
#244
bamawriter said:
Unless the prosecution is saving a really strong witness, this thing is all over but the shouting.

If I'm the Defense, the only witness I call is the doctor to testify to Zimmerman's injuries. There is no reason to go any further.
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Perhaps true but given all the furor over the "GZ followed TM" for my own part I'd like to hear the two sides take apart the 911 call. In particular how (as I understand things as I type this) 1: GZ was already out of his vehicle when told he didn't need to try to follow TM, which he stopped doing as instructed and began setting up a meet with the police and 2: once GZ lost contact with TM exactly how was contact made again without it being a deliberate act by TM?

Having that hashed out in court might help with how things are perceived in the aftermath if GZ is set free.
 
#246
#246
Vol4LifeLCA said:
The more this thing goes on and the more facts (or lack thereof) comes to light, the more this trial looks like a political prosecution. I have yet to hear of any facts that would support an affidavit of probable cause - and this is after 3 days of the State presenting its witnesses!

Seriously - the prosecutors have come no where even remotely close to bringing forth evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman should be held guilty of 2nd degree murder. At this point, it would be unreasonable if you didn't have doubt as to Zimmerman's guilt.

If I was a member of the Florida bar, I would be furious at Angela Corey for using this trial as some type of reelection campaign. Nothing has been presented that calls into question Zimmerman's claim of self-defense. This legal circus is an embarrassment to the entire legal profession, and it is this type of stuff that gives lawyers a bad name.
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And it's damn expensive for the state.
 
#247
#247
hndog609 said:
Perhaps true but given all the furor over the "GZ followed TM" for my own part I'd like to hear the two sides take apart the 911 call. In particular how (as I understand things as I type this) 1: GZ was already out of his vehicle when told he didn't need to try to follow TM, which he stopped doing as instructed and began setting up a meet with the police and 2: once GZ lost contact with TM exactly how was contact made again without it being a deliberate act by TM?

Having that hashed out in court might help with how things are perceived in the aftermath if GZ is set free.
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I don't think there is any effective way to do that. There don't appear to be any witnesses to those moments, and it's impossible to establish who was where and when from a phone call.
 
#248
#248
hndog609 said:
Perhaps true but given all the furor over the "GZ followed TM" for my own part I'd like to hear the two sides take apart the 911 call. In particular how (as I understand things as I type this) 1: GZ was already out of his vehicle when told he didn't need to try to follow TM, which he stopped doing as instructed and began setting up a meet with the police and 2: once GZ lost contact with TM exactly how was contact made again without it being a deliberate act by TM?

Having that hashed out in court might help with how things are perceived in the aftermath if GZ is set free.
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I'm not angry at you but this is a freakin murder trial, not an let's appease the public's need for knowing what happened conference. A man could be sent to jail for the rest of his life. In reality, none of what you just mentioned even matters in order to Zimmerman to claim self-defense. This is exactly why this dang trial should have never happened. Now, b/c the vast majority of people, do not understand the role of our criminal justice system and how we conduct trials, there will probably be riots.
 
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#249
#249
bamawriter said:
I don't think there is any effective way to do that. There don't appear to be any witnesses to those moments, and it's impossible to establish who was where and when from a phone call.
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The defense will try to do that effectively in closing arguments. A body of evidence for it has already been established.
 
#250
#250
bamawriter said:
I don't think there is any effective way to do that. There don't appear to be any witnesses to those moments, and it's impossible to establish who was where and when from a phone call.
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From what I've seen of the transcripts there's a lot of what has been presented, at least publicly, that I think might suffer greatly under scrutiny of the 911 call. If it comes to that I can only speculate.
 
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