You think hiring a proven HC doesn't matter?

#401
#401
Cartervol said:
It's amazing the amount of them they have and how quick they move on from one to the other.
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There are some, but its amazing to me how many legitimate opinions, questions and actual facts, get categorized as excuses by posters that are very vocal and stubborn about their "opinion". If its not what they believe, its an excuse. They've actually brainwashed themselves and are now convinced they are right about everything.
 
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#402
#402
Behr said:
There are some, but its amazing to me how many legitimate opinions, questions and actual facts, get categorized as excuses by posters that are very vocal and stubborn about their "opinion". If its not what they believe, its an excuse. They've actually brainwashed themselves and are now convinced they are right about everything.
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Welcome to 21st Century America.
 
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#403
#403
JMSqb11 said:
Yes they did. And by him lying about death threats, Florida got a lucky break of cutting him immediately.
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I think there was an small element of self-sabotage at play with Mac. His energy was just weird all last season.

He sounded depressed in several press conferences, he tweeted pictures with his family with a Nebraska hat in the background. He just wasn’t the same guy from the 2015 season.

Personally I think the SEC stage was too big for him and he wanted out. I’m glad he’s gone.
 
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#404
#404
05_never_again said:
Yep. This is an unpopular thing to say now and people here are just too blinded by hindsight bias, but there were reasons to think Butch might actually turn out to be a pretty good coach when he was hired. Especially relative to Dooley. Unlike Dooley, he had successful and more meaningful experience as an HC. He followed Brian Kelly at both jobs, but there was a lot of attrition off those rosters once he departed. He stabilized both programs and won conference titles at both schools after Kelly left, both with and without Kelly's players. I thought that given his track record at Central Mich and Cincy he was probably a decent tactician and talent developer but concerned about his recruiting chops. Shows you how much I know. He turned out to be the exact opposite. It seems pretty clear now that his teams were good because he simply out-recruited MAC and Big East competition, and you can be the best team in your conference by doing that at that level.

Butch I think is still perfectly capable of being a pretty good coach at a G5 school again. The thing that stunned me the single most about him is how out of whack his perception of the expectations was with the reality. Butch always seemed to believe that having 2015 and 2016 as the pinnacles of his career here was fantastic and something that the fanbase should be over the moon with. He never really understood just how big a deal football is here, which is amazing considering he was a professional college football coach.
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That sounds resonable, I, unlike most here am mot a Butch hater.
 
#405
#405
volfannbama said:
Saban won his first game 52-6. He beat a ranked team (arkansas) in game 3, only lost o ranked Georgia by 3 in week 4. He stomped ranked Tennessee and also made it to a bowl game. He fielded a competative team and didnt make.excuses. There are no similarities between saban and pruitts first year. Except pruitt doesn't make excuses, fans do.it for him.
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Not just him, lots of great coaches had a rough first year. Gundy, Stoops, Saban, Gary Patterson, and the list goes on....
 
#406
#406
Lawrence Wright said:
I think there was an small element of self-sabotage at play with Mac. His energy was just weird all last season.

He sounded depressed in several press conferences, he tweeted pictures with his family with a Nebraska hat in the background. He just wasn’t the same guy from the 2015 season.

Personally I think the SEC stage was too big for him and he wanted out. I’m glad he’s gone.
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I think that is a fair assessment. Obviously, he didn't do anything like Mac, but I felt the same about Muschamp and Dooley and a lot of former Saban guys. Florida is one of those job you can't turn down, but you also can't make excuses. Tennessee used to be that way. While Mullen wasn't a huge name, he has a track record of being one of the best offensive minds in the country while churning out QB after QB. Like I said, it helps he had Grantham attached to his hip. I mostly feel the same way about Pruitt minus the head coaching experience. Given how he seems to be a no nonsense guy, I feel good about this rebuild compared to Butch. Just ready for the next two seasons to be over.
 
#407
#407
NEOCON said:
Wanna see real coaching?

Go watch the Florida game. Mullen went with the option to throw the d off cause Franks sucks.

Made multiple adjustments on both sides of the ball.

Then go watch our game and see how not to coach.

We have more money than they do but they expect wins and our fans are such cucks we get happy over moral victories.

Oohhh we only lost to Auburn by ( insert number) someone will day next week.

Just so sick of this. Why can’t we ever demand to have a real head coach???
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I really wish there was a farm system for Athletic Directors..... Looking at the past 10 years, I really think there is no better job in the sports world than being an AD.
 
#408
#408
Behr said:
There are some, but its amazing to me how many legitimate opinions, questions and actual facts, get categorized as excuses by posters that are very vocal and stubborn about their "opinion". If its not what they believe, its an excuse. They've actually brainwashed themselves and are now convinced they are right about everything.
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There are quite a few around here who didn't want Pruitt in the first place, and were just looking for any opportunity to start with the I told you so bs. Most of them would be completely supportive of a certain coach who took an NFL job in northern California if he was here and having the same struggles.
 
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#410
#410
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
There are quite a few around here who didn't want Pruitt in the first place, and were just looking for any opportunity to start with the I told you so bs. Most of them would be completely supportive of a certain coach who took an NFL job in northern California if he was here and having the same struggles.
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That's the thing, I wanted someone else, Pruitt wasn't even on my radar, I was disappointed when he was hired and I was vocal about it....for about a week.

Now, its just like ground hog day. I decided to give him a chance and try to be positive about it, because wtf else am I gonna do? Bish and moan? And what if all the bishing and moaning actually paid off? Who does everybody think our administration is gonna hire?

Lol, the same people always "strutting" like Internet peacocks about how they knew Butch wouldn't be successful, and Dooley wouldn't win anything because "look, look at their history".... these people can't wait to fire the coach we have and hire another, because our AD is gonna hire a good one this time. Smdh.

Now here they come " who said anything about firing Pruitt?" Lol, go ask Getyousomeofthat, and let him read between everybody's lines, cause if he's as good as it as he seems to think, he can give you a list of who hasn't SAID it, but only because they are skirt to.
 
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#411
#411
I don’t understand the argument that Tennessee puts up with mediocre results.

They fired Fulmer. An alumnus and national champion.

They fired Dooley after 3 years.

Butchs teams were on an improving trend until year 5 and they fired him at year 5.

I just don’t see where Tennessee puts up with poor results.

They gave people the boot on other sports too.

The problem isn’t an unwillingness to fire someone, it’s who they hire
 
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#412
#412
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
There are quite a few around here who didn't want Pruitt in the first place, and were just looking for any opportunity to start with the I told you so bs. Most of them would be completely supportive of a certain coach who took an NFL job in northern California if he was here and having the same struggles.
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To be honest, I dont remember a single person on this board that wanted pruitt before he was announced.
 
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#414
#414
It all started with elevating Hamilton to Director of Men's Athletics. The person(s) who made that decision and those behind the scenes who encouraged it are to blame for all the ensuing woes. UT's doom was naked in the open when Joan Cronan declined to take up the unified AD position and opted to join the search committee instead. When Joan demurred from being drafted to save Tennessee athletics, everyone knew that they couldn't be saved. Rebuilding from the ashes was and is the only course. We need an architect who can actually lay brick, not an eager career climber who knows how to make a slogan out of 'em. Of course, as long as those making the hires are occupants of the circus clown car, no true architect is going to want the job...

Now, we have Fulmer. Sadly, Blackburn was sacrificed so that Phil could sidestep into the job. Will PF learn on the job to become the architect of Tennessee's future athletics glory?

Time will tell...
 
#416
#416
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
There are quite a few around here who didn't want Pruitt in the first place, and were just looking for any opportunity to start with the I told you so bs. Most of them would be completely supportive of a certain coach who took an NFL job in northern California if he was here and having the same struggles.
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Its interesting how Florida has had two 4 win seasons under 2 different coaches and have been able to bounce back both times pretty much immediately. also, since 1990, every UF coach except Zook (Spurrier, Meyer, Muschamp and McElwain) were able to reach double digit wins by no later than year 2 and it may be presumptuous, but it looks like Mullin may be able to pull it off in year 1 if everything keeps going like it is now. All of those coaches took over mediocre to bad Florida teams. Meanwhile UT had its first 4 win season in program history.

Florida's recruiting ranks per Rivals look like this:

2019 (so far): 25 vs UT 10
2018: 17 vs UT 20
2017: 9 vs UT 15
2016: 14 vs UT 15
2015: 23 vs UT 5
2014: 8 vs UT 5

UF isn't out recruiting UT over time and when they do its by a small amount. So the idea that Florida has access to (and is actually getting) all this talent that UT somehow doesnt have access to is balony.

Since 1990, UF has had 6 coaches and UT has had 6 coaches.
Since 2000, UF has had 6 coaches and UT has had 5 coaches.
Since 2010, UF has had 4 coaches and UT has had 3 coaches.
In the last 10 seasons both teams have had 4 coaches and...
UF has had only 1 coach for more than 3 complete seasons since Spurrier left.

So the idea that UT is hampered more than other schools because of coaching instability and turnover is also balony.

Is it money?
Well, Mullen makes a little over 4 mil. McElwain made pretty much the same. Muschamp barely made it to 3 mill.
Comparitively, Pruitt is making just under 4 mil. Lyle made just over 4 mil . Dooley is the lone standout. He was paid more to leave UT that was paid to coach there..lol But we also found Dooley hanging around the dumpster behind Ferris hall and gave him the head coaching job after Lane bolted.

Bottom line though is that the money each school commits to coaching is not out of sync with one another.

So, if it isn't recruits, it isnt coaching turnover and it isnt moeny, what then is it? And why do people make these excuses for UT that they've been put into this hisorically unprecidented position that they cant possibly overcome quickly with the right guy at the helm? Why is it unrealistic to expect a good coach can turn things around pretty much immediately? Florida has had no magic bullet. No secret to success that is somehow unattainable at any other school. As far as I can see, they just have the expectation to win and win now (both the fan base and the Administration).
 
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#417
#417
99gator said:
I don’t understand the argument that Tennessee puts up with mediocre results.

They fired Fulmer. An alumnus and national champion.

They fired Dooley after 3 years.

Butchs teams were on an improving trend until year 5 and they fired him at year 5.

I just don’t see where Tennessee puts up with poor results.

They gave people the boot on other sports too.

The problem isn’t an unwillingness to fire someone, it’s who they hire
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GHAHHH! Holy sh!t, somone gets it! Except that UT fans get it stuck in their head that it takes 5-7 years to "rebuild" whole Florida fires a coach after double digit wins and SEC east championships.

The expectations are just different.
 
#418
#418
It’s not necessarily a magic bullet, but it’s not a stretch to say UF’s leadership has been head and shoulders better than UT.
 
#419
#419
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
There are quite a few around here who didn't want Pruitt in the first place, and were just looking for any opportunity to start with the I told you so bs. Most of them would be completely supportive of a certain coach who took an NFL job in northern California if he was here and having the same struggles.
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Pruitt was like out 27th choice as head coach. He wasnt even considered by the administration as a possibility until we freaking fired our AD in the middle of a coaching search. So I think its wholly realistic that many people were not thrilled with the hire.

Maybe he turns out to be the second coming of Saban, but that doesnt mean that people's initial impression of the hire were unfounded.
 
#420
#420
Lawrence Wright said:
It’s not necessarily a magic bullet, but it’s not a stretch to say UF’s leadership has been head and shoulders better than UT.
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That's ecactly what I was getting at.

And also, its not who you fire and how long you give them, its who you hire that matters most.
 
#421
#421
But the difference is they had big boys unlike we do. Also those big boys at FL didn't get coached the last 3 years by a band player like Butch Jones. Jones had no clue what he was doing, he was way out of his realm. He was able to recruit good his first couple years because they players listened to his spill and he is a good talker. But after year 3 it was apparent he had no clue what he was doing the only reason is classes "looked" good was because he used the number and got many players on board which made his classes higher. id rather have 15 guys that are 3-5 star than his 28-30 2-3 star players. The type players it takes to play big boy football in the SEC are just not at Tennessee right now, Yes there are a few on roster and are learning but a vast majority don't belong in this league. They would have worked out well at Cincy, or W. Michigan where Butch came from before. Those are the type players butch went after because that is all he knew how to get.
 
#424
#424
MWAVolfan said:
That's ecactly what I was getting at.

And also, its not who you fire and how long you give them, its who you hire that matters most.
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True...I always thought UGA hiring Richt did irreparable damage to UT, due to Richt locking down the state’s best recruits.

Spurrier going to South Carolina to a lesser degree.
 
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