Would you Quit Beating Your Head Against The Wall

#78

'Boro-vol

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#78
I dont agree with the last part.

Its evident some were pissed he was offered the job, some that hes a Bama guy, some that hes not who they wanted. His struggles have made that a lot easier to be vocal about.
Can some of them live with him if hes successful? Yes. But it's a lot easier to go armageddon when you didnt like him to begin with. That would happen with the first slip after that.
I can live with him if he's successful. I hope he's successful...it's the best thing for the program, which is what I ultimately want. I think however, like his predecessors, he's out of his depth.

But you're right...I don't find him likable, and I will probably never like him. At all. I'm a little embarrassed that he is most recognizable public face of our University. More than that he doesn't seem to value the position he's in. He doesn't, in my opinion, view it as a special place to be.
 
#79

Behr

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#79
We've taken the sunshine approach two other times and both times has failed. We were told to give Dooley plenty of time and we did. He got probably one more year than he deserved And then we kept Butch for 5 years and look at the irreparable damage he's done to the program. Why can't we try another approach for once? The sunshine Pumpers always get their way and then we find out what a big mistake it was and then they ask us to do it all over again.
This is really funny.
 
#80

BeecherVol

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#80
We've taken the sunshine approach two other times and both times has failed. We were told to give Dooley plenty of time and we did. He got probably one more year than he deserved And then we kept Butch for 5 years and look at the irreparable damage he's done to the program. Why can't we try another approach for once? The sunshine Pumpers always get their way and then we find out what a big mistake it was and then they ask us to do it all over again.
Well maybe you will get your way on the next failed hire. Maybe they will fire the next guy after the spring game or better yet right after signs a disappointing first class. Even the scales a bit.

Some have figured out its not the firing process that has set UT back. Its the step before that.
 
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#81

BeecherVol

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#81
I can live with him if he's successful. I hope he's successful...it's the best thing for the program, which is what I ultimately want. I think however, like his predecessors, he's out of his depth.

But you're right...I don't find him likable, and I will probably never like him. At all. I'm a little embarrassed that he is most recognizable public face of our University. More than that he doesn't seem to value the position he's in. He doesn't, in my opinion, view it as a special place to be.
I think when he was hired he was outside his depth for sure. And honestly I think Fulmer knew that and hoped he could just get through a couple years and recruit and then see where he was then. Most of those that didn't want him had that factored in to why. Its understandable.

Dooley was a failed HC before he got here. And everyone knew Jones was a salesman that had found some success following Kelly at a couple stops. I would have like to have had a more seasoned proven hire in all 3 cases, but that didn't happen and given history we know why. At this point you either give him some time to find out if he can grow as a coach (which does happen). Or you fire him and hope for some reason UT does something they havent been doing in hiring coaches.

I wouldn't know if he values the position he's in. I don't think you can base that just off his level or lack of success, so I won't touch that one. But it probably would be an easy opinion to have if I didn't like him.
 
#82

'Boro-vol

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#82
I think when he was hired he was outside his depth for sure. And honestly I think Fulmer knew that and hoped he could just get through a couple years and recruit and then see where he was then. Most of those that didn't want him had that factored in to why. Its understandable.

Dooley was a failed HC before he got here. And everyone knew Jones was a salesman that had found some success following Kelly at a couple stops. I would have like to have had a more seasoned proven hire in all 3 cases, but that didn't happen and given history we know why. At this point you either give him some time to find out if he can grow as a coach (which does happen). Or you fire him and hope for some reason UT does something they havent been doing in hiring coaches.

I wouldn't know if he values the position he's in. I don't think you can base that just off his level or lack of success, so I won't touch that one. But it probably would be an easy opinion to have if I didn't like him.
I was trying to be as honest as I could with my response. To be clear, I’d fire him yesterday, but I’m fully aware that is not happening anytime soon. We love a loser here, until we don’t...institutionally speaking.

My distaste for him has nothing to do with his lack of success. I disliked him from the first press conference. His lack of success has just reinforced what I believe.

I find myself in the unenviable personal position of having to hope for his success because it’s what is best for the University and program that I love. If he’s successful, then I’m stuck with a guy I can’t stand, and find embarrassing. Maybe winning will make him more palatable....something else I can hope for.
 
#85

Behr

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#85
Behr, you’re always so strategically neutral.
I'm always honest too. I make mistakes and I'm wrong as well.

Id be fine without another "Rah rah support this team.or you're not a true fan" post or thread, just as I'm fine with never seeing another "Don't set yourself up for disappointment" post or thread.

Neither are going to stop anytime soon and if everyone else can cry, so can I.
 
#86

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#86
I was trying to be as honest as I could with my response. To be clear, I’d fire him yesterday, but I’m fully aware that is not happening anytime soon. We love a loser here, until we don’t...institutionally speaking.

My distaste for him has nothing to do with his lack of success. I disliked him from the first press conference. His lack of success has just reinforced what I believe.

I find myself in the unenviable personal position of having to hope for his success because it’s what is best for the University and program that I love. If he’s successful, then I’m stuck with a guy I can’t stand, and find embarrassing. Maybe winning will make him more palatable....something else I can hope for.
Yeah that's unenviable for sure.
Sucks for you.

His personality, demeanor or whatever else makes him likeable or unlikable outside the lines means substantially less to me.

I thought Dooley was entertaining and intelligent but had no business being offered the job. Neither of those attributes mattered.

UT aside, firing him right does nothing but create more turmoil for the SRs to ensure. I cant find a good reason to do that right now.
 
#87

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#87
We fired a guy, in part, because he couldn’t hire affective coordinators. We then rehired that guy to hire a HC, at which time he hired another coordinator with no HC experience to be HC. Almost two years in this hire doesn’t look to be affective either, but the fan base is supposed to be patient because the guy we once fired and the not affective guy he hired know what they’re doing
 
#90

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#90
Well maybe you will get your way on the next failed hire. Maybe they will fire the next guy after the spring game or better yet right after signs a disappointing first class. Even the scales a bit.

Some have figured out its not the firing process that has set UT back. Its the step before that.
I'm willing to give a coach time But that coach has to give you something tangible in return. Winning five games last year and then turning around this year and I only winning two or three is not Improvement. Especially when you consider that the schedule was easier this year and he's got one more year of his system in place and more of his players in place. I don't understand the mindset that there's a certain time table that is set like a religion that you have to keep a coach that particular amount of time regardless if he is taking you down the toilet. That is not what Alabama did before they found Saban. That is not what Florida did. They were not afraid to get rid of a coach after a couple years if they saw that coach was not the answer and look where those programs are compared to ours.
 
#91

DougVol

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#91
I'm always honest too. I make mistakes and I'm wrong as well.

Id be fine without another "Rah rah support this team.or you're not a true fan" post or thread, just as I'm fine with never seeing another "Don't set yourself up for disappointment" post or thread.

Neither are going to stop anytime soon and if everyone else can cry, so can I.
I hear ya. It’s football. Fans get emotionally involved. And they get pi..ed off when we lose. After the last ten years, I’m kind of numb to it all.
 
#92

Behr

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#92
But true. Not one thing I said was inaccurate. Butch was here five years ,Dooley was here three years,neither deserved it
I just thought it was whiney and childish. "Pumpers always get their way". I don't think anyone has had their "way". Who wanted Dooley, Butch or Pruitt? Guarantee none of those guys were ever on anyone's "wish list".

What do you want me to refer you and the group you support as? The Real fans? TRF. I don't consider myself a Pumper, but for conversation sake I'll be one. What were my choices those other two times? I'm asking because nobody told me I had one. What's my choice now?

Lol, get out with I always get my way.

And you said " Butch caused irreparable damage" your words. Thats really funny, because just yesterday there was an argument about that very thing and one of your biggest members of TRF group has bargained and we agree that Butch is responsible for the Auburn and Kentucky wins last year. So Maybe we fired Butch too soon?

TRF also don't approve of blaming anything on Butch, so you saying he caused irreparable damage is funny to me.
 
#93

troyntn71

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#93
I just thought it was whiney and childish. "Pumpers always get their way". I don't think anyone has had their "way". Who wanted Dooley, Butch or Pruitt? Guarantee none of those guys were ever on anyone's "wish list".

What do you want me to refer you and the group you support as? The Real fans? TRF. I don't consider myself a Pumper, but for conversation sake I'll be one. What were my choices those other two times? I'm asking because nobody told me I had one. What's my choice now?

Lol, get out with I always get my way.

And you said " Butch caused irreparable damage" your words. Thats really funny, because just yesterday there was an argument about that very thing and one of your biggest members of TRF group has bargained and we agree that Butch is responsible for the Auburn and Kentucky wins last year. So Maybe we fired Butch too soon?

TRF also don't approve of blaming anything on Butch, so you saying he caused irreparable damage is funny to me.
I cannot speak for the ones that said Butch is responsible for the Kentucky and Auburn wins. I don't agree with that. I will say even a blind squirrel can find a nut sometimes. Maybe it was the Alabama lover in Pruitt that gave him extra incentive to beat Auburn. Lord knows he's beating very few teams since then. You do have a point. We probably don't have a choice in the matter. Because Fulmer will not get rid of this guy no matter how bad it gets. He's too stubborn. Being too stubborn is what cost him his job when he was coach. Doesn't mean I have to sit here every day and praise the coaches and praise the situation. I'm going to scream from The Mountaintop how unhappy I am even though I'm sure my voice doesn't make a difference. However if there was thousands of people demanding change we might get it. It's just frustrating that we have so many fans that have just thrown their hands up and accepted this. As long as the money keeps rolling in to that University they will never care if we have a winning product. Fans need to wake up to that reality.
 
#94

BeecherVol

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#94
I'm willing to give a coach time But that coach has to give you something tangible in return. Winning five games last year and then turning around this year and I only winning two or three is not Improvement. Especially when you consider that the schedule was easier this year and he's got one more year of his system in place and more of his players in place. I don't understand the mindset that there's a certain time table that is set like a religion that you have to keep a coach that particular amount of time regardless if he is taking you down the toilet. That is not what Alabama did before they found Saban. That is not what Florida did. They were not afraid to get rid of a coach after a couple years if they saw that coach was not the answer and look where those programs are compared to ours.
Who were the last coaches fired by Florida and Bama after 2 seasons?

We may only win 2 games but you dont fire a guy because you think hes going 2 - 10. You fire him because he did. That's assume he gets fired.
 
#95

troyntn71

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#95
Who were the last coaches fired by Florida and Bama after 2 seasons?

We may only win 2 games but you dont fire a guy because you think hes going 2 - 10. You fire him because he did. That's assume he gets fired.
I'm not saying has to be fired today. My concern is if he goes 1 and 11 he still won't be fired. And if he doesn't next year he still won't be fired. That's my concern
 
#96

'Boro-vol

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#96
I cannot speak for the ones that said Butch is responsible for the Kentucky and Auburn wins. I don't agree with that. I will say even a blind squirrel can find a nut sometimes. Maybe it was the Alabama lover in Pruitt that gave him extra incentive to beat Auburn. Lord knows he's beating very few teams since then. You do have a point. We probably don't have a choice in the matter. Because Fulmer will not get rid of this guy no matter how bad it gets. He's too stubborn. Being too stubborn is what cost him his job when he was coach. Doesn't mean I have to sit here every day and praise the coaches and praise the situation. I'm going to scream from The Mountaintop how unhappy I am even though I'm sure my voice doesn't make a difference. However if there was thousands of people demanding change we might get it. It's just frustrating that we have so many fans that have just thrown their hands up and accepted this. As long as the money keeps rolling in to that University they will never care if we have a winning product. Fans need to wake up to that reality.
Nobody said that...the question was if Butch is responsible for the state of the program under Pruitt, shouldn't he then be at least partially responsible for the team that beat Auburn & Kentucky? Some concepts are too complex to keep some individuals from oversimplifying to make a point.

For the record, Butch sucked. So does Pruitt. It is yet to be seen who wins the honor of sucking the most...but Pruitt has a sizable head start on the worst season in Tennessee history.
 
#97

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#97
I'm not saying has to be fired today. My concern is if he goes 1 and 11 he still won't be fired. And if he doesn't next year he still won't be fired. That's my concern
I see.

I thought you were trying to make a point that both Bama and UF weren't afraid to fire a coach after 2 seasons and that's why. they ended up with who they did and where they are. My mistake.

Ifs and buts....and so on.
IF that happens the conversation is there to be had.
 
#98

Behr

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#98
I cannot speak for the ones that said Butch is responsible for the Kentucky and Auburn wins. I don't agree with that. I will say even a blind squirrel can find a nut sometimes. Maybe it was the Alabama lover in Pruitt that gave him extra incentive to beat Auburn. Lord knows he's beating very few teams since then. You do have a point. We probably don't have a choice in the matter. Because Fulmer will not get rid of this guy no matter how bad it gets. He's too stubborn. Being too stubborn is what cost him his job when he was coach. Doesn't mean I have to sit here every day and praise the coaches and praise the situation. I'm going to scream from The Mountaintop how unhappy I am even though I'm sure my voice doesn't make a difference. However if there was thousands of people demanding change we might get it. It's just frustrating that we have so many fans that have just run their hands up and accepted this. As long as the money keeps rolling in to that University they will never care if we have a winning product. Fans need to wake up to that reality.
Just a difference of opinions and a bunch of people get mad because they think they are right. On both sides. No one KNOWS anything.

We're in a mess and firing Pruitt right now, just doesn't seem smart to me. Not right now. For many reasons and one being its likely to be a replacement that we will all hate...again. Remember those Last 3? ...But, I don't KNOW.

Others, like you think its better to go ahead and fire him before it gets worse. We could fire him tomorrow and the AD finally go out and hire a real proven winner. He could come in and turn it around in year one. What if they don't and its like or worse than the last 3? Could be, but I don't KNOW.

Both just want to win, they just have different opinions on what our best shot at it is.
 
#99

BeecherVol

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#99
However if there was thousands of people demanding change we might get it. It's just frustrating that we have so many fans that have just thrown their hands up and accepted this. As long as the money keeps rolling in to that University they will never care if we have a winning product. Fans need to wake up to that reality.
Organize and see if you can get UT and the boosters to move on it. It could work I suppose.

I'm not sure what you do next because that wont solve the problem that has been there for over a decade and multiple hires.
 

Behr

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Nobody said that...the question was if Butch is responsible for the state of the program under Pruitt, shouldn't he then be at least partially responsible for the team that beat Auburn & Kentucky? Some concepts are too complex to keep some individuals from oversimplifying to make a point.

For the record, Butch sucked. So does Pruitt. It is yet to be seen who wins the honor of sucking the most...but Pruitt has a sizable head start on the worst season in Tennessee history.
Nope, you're the one that kept saying "Responsible for" not partially. Thats what started the conversation in the first place. Cincy said Butch helped get us in this mess. But you weren't having it. Follow the stupidity back, itll be easy with the post below.

I need some clarification....we are saying that if Butch is responsible for the current state of things he’s also responsible for the two wins against ranked teams last year, right?

I’m just trying to stay on the same page. Which coach do we like today?
 

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