WNBA discussion thread?

[chuckiepoo]

Still don't think the Ladies wil get the 50/50 Revenue sharing like NBA players do...

…and that does seem unfair. Tough issue. At what point do the investors (owners) recoup their losses and move forward with an equitable agreement? That’s basically the purpose of the CBA.

 

[knoxvol52]

…and that does seem unfair. Tough issue. At what point do the players investors (owners) recoup their losses and move forward with an equitable agreement? That’s basically what the purpose of the CBA.

NBA Revenue for the season just completed was 10.3 billion... The WNBA may generate a little over a billion.. even with the new generation of players it will be hard to generate much more than the billion...going forward.

 

[1reVOLver]

From an investor viewpoint, the P&L losses don't matter much if the equity appreciates substantially. The marketing incompetence that causes losses can be fixed.

 

[madtownvol]

From an investor viewpoint, the P&L losses don't matter much if the equity appreciates substantially. The marketing incompetence that causes losses can be fixed.

More to the point, WNBA losses are an accounting fiction. David Portnoy of Barstool Sports explains:

"I see lots of morons trying to act like WNBA players don’t deserve more money," Portnoy tweeted. "They are throwing around this 'lost 50 million' number that nobody even knows where it comes from. The finances of the league are a mess, tied in with NBA and purposely murkey. The owners don’t want to say how the league is doing cause then you gotta pay more going into bargaining agreement. The league is exploding. Franchise values are exploding. Ticket sales, merch, TV rights all exploding. The players have an opt-out in their CBA. Of course they took it. It’s all about leverage in re-negotiations and for the 1st time in history of league players have power. The players make virtually nothing while the entire league explodes. Of course they deserve more money. Just the values of the team pay for it without all the other stuff. If somebody told me I could buy a Boston team for 250 million I would do it without blinking. That’s all you got to know about the WNBA finances."

Just to be clear, the players are not asking to be paid NBA salaries (they are not delusional), they want the same revenue sharing deal as the men have.

Just to highlight how arbitrary these numbers are, the NBA jointly negotiates the media rights deal for the WNBA. A lot of the players wanted an independent negotiation but owners argued that it was better to be part of the NBA overall package. Consequently, more than a few analysts have suggested that the W's 200 million a year for 10 years media deal seriously undervalues the league but no one knows how big the number actually is since the NBA (who owns 60% of the league) draws the line between what is NBA and WNBA.

A good discussion of these financial complexities and obfuscations can be found here:

WNBA CBA negotiations: Where things stand after All-Star Weekend as potential work stoppage looms

The CBA, which expires Oct. 31, was a major topic in Indianapolis over the weekend

www.cbssports.com

Last thought, the players main negotiating leverage is a strike but that action would also be terrible for the league. The owners are probably betting that players would not risk their gains, which puts the players in more of a cornered position. It will be interesting see which side blinks first. Because so many are mindlessly parroting the 50 million dollar loss accounting fiction, public opinion will be against the players.

As Jemele Hill noted, all that "protect women's sports" energy magically disappeared once W players wore shirts demanding a more equitable CBA.

 

[chuckiepoo]

As Jemele Hill noting, all that "protect women's sports" energy magically disappeared once W players wore shirts demanding a more equitable CBA.

Now that’s a centered, responsible reference…

 

[madtownvol]

Now that’s a centered, responsible reference…

She has made some controversial statements in the past. The one that got her into some heat was "Rooting for the Celtics is like saying Hitler was a victim. It's like hoping Gorbachev would get to the blinking red button before Reagan." That comment was over the top and she apologized and retracted it quickly.

But she is not wrong on the WNBA situation.

A bit more from Jemele:

Another thing I notice is that all the people saying what these women don’t deserve keep citing the financials from this year, conveniently leaving out that their new media rights deal kicks in next season and is $200 MILLION a year,” she wrote. “The WNBA is adding multiple franchises because there are a line of investors wanting in. The financial trajectory is high. You think billionaires want to be in on bad products? The NBA lost money for over 40 years. Do you think player salaries stayed the same for 40 years? (Hint: They did not).”

 

[madtownvol]

NBA Revenue for the season just completed was 10.3 billion... The WNBA may generate a little over a billion.. even with the new generation of players it will be hard to generate much more than the billion...going forward.

Just over 50% of NBA revenue comes from media rights. That % is going to increase with the new media deal. Again, in the jointly negotiated media contract, the NBA gets 7 billion a year and the W gets 200 million. Switch the numbers to $6.5 billions and $700 million and the economics of W look entirely different.

In sum, there is a lot of play in these accounting numbers.

 

[RandomUTfan]

I was looking into the WNBA's finances the other day after seeing somewhere they lost 50 million dollars. Unless I misunderstand Capitalism companies that lose money cease to exist. It was clear upon just a cursory amount of research that the finances of the league are being deliberately obscured so they can claim they aren't making money off of it.

 

[madtownvol]

I was looking into the WNBA's finances the other day after seeing somewhere they lost 50 million dollars. Unless I misunderstand Capitalism companies that lose money cease to exist. It was clear upon just a cursory amount of research that the finances of the league are being deliberately obscured so they can claim they aren't making money off of it.

Well, lots of companies particularly in the tech sector (including Tesla) operate in the red for long periods of time and are kept afloat by venture capitalists who are betting on longer term pay offs. The rules of capitalism that apply to your local mom and pop butcher shop are not same for large corporate ventures.

The WNBA was kind of a tax write-off for the NBA and a longer term bet for investors but it very likely has turned into a revenue generator in more recent years and that reality is probably being masked through accounting practices-- that is another component of the players displeasure

 

[RandomUTfan]

Well, lots of companies particularly in the tech sector (including Tesla) operate in the red for long periods of time and are kept afloat by venture capitalist who are betting on longer term pay offs. The rules of capitalism that apply to your local mom and pop butcher shop are not same for large corporate ventures.

The WNBA was kind of a tax write-off for the NBA and a longer term bet for investors but it very likely has turned into a revenue generator in more recent years and that reality is probably being masked through accounting practices-- that is another component of the players displeasure

Yeah, you have a point, but you're also talking about ventures with promises of long-term profitablity. The way they talk about the WNBA there's no hope of profitability. And we both agree that's pretty ludicrous.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Yeah, you have a point, but you're also talking about ventures with promises of long-term profitablity. The way they talk about the WNBA there's no hope of profitability. And we both agree that's pretty ludicrous.

females account for 51% of the population in the USA
If they ever figure out how to market their venue properly,,,there is a huge probability of profitability

 

[Orange Maniac]

Another thing I notice is that all the people saying what these women don’t deserve keep citing the financials from this year, conveniently leaving out that their new media rights deal kicks in next season and is $200 MILLION a year,” she wrote. “The WNBA is adding multiple franchises because there are a line of investors wanting in. The financial trajectory is high. You think billionaires want to be in on bad products? The NBA lost money for over 40 years. Do you think player salaries stayed the same for 40 years? (Hint: They did not).”

Implying that they will paid the same with the new $200 million media rights deal is not being very truthful. They will all get a decent raise because of the new deal. No, the men's salary didn't stay the same for 40 years but neither will the women's. They are currently getting 9 percent of total revenue and with the new bargaining agreement they are working towards, that percentage will increase. The dispute is over how much. The women want 50 percent like the men but they are dreaming if they think they will get that much.

 

[madtownvol]

Implying that they will paid the same with the new $200 million media rights deal is not being very truthful. They will all get a decent raise because of the new deal. No, the men's salary didn't stay the same for 40 years but neither will the women's. They are currently getting 9 percent of total revenue and with the new bargaining agreement they are working towards, that percentage will increase. The dispute is over how much. The women want 50 percent like the men but they are dreaming if they think they will get that much.

You have to contextualize her statement. She is arguing against the social media warriors who keep posting that WNBA players don't deserve more $ because the league supposedly lost 50 million last year. Her comparison to the NBA is to highlight the double standard-- NBA players could still demand more when their league was operating in the red and they were not widely condemned for wanting better pay and working conditions.

 

[BruisedOrange]

You can make a lot of money under today's rules & practices by just moving money, without ever buying or selling a product or service. So anything would be believeable regarding the WNBA and owners and hot franchises.

I appreciate all you posters with more than a cursory knowledge sharing your facts and insights.

Opinions are easy. Understanding reality in all its complexity is a pain in the challenge today.

 

[chuckiepoo]

You can make a lot of money under today's rules & practices by just moving money, without ever buying or selling a product or service. So anything would be believeable regarding the WNBA and owners and hot franchises.

I appreciate all you posters with more than a cursory knowledge sharing your facts and insights.

Opinions are easy. Understanding reality in all its complexity is a pain in the challenge today.

I’ve been swayed in my opinion by @madtownvol .

I hate it when I agree with “The Turd”.

 

[knoxvol52]

I’ve been swayed in my opinion by @madtownvol .

I hate it when I agree with “The Turd”.

Cowherd off the top rope with a elbow smash...

 

[madtownvol]

I’ve been swayed in my opinion by @madtownvol .

I hate it when I agree with “The Turd”.

Plum's "tattle" on Clark was just strange. Clark and everyone on "her" team wore the shirt so what's the beef?

A Union negotiation is a time for solidarity not pettiness. If Plum has a grudge with Clark (which seems to be the case), keep it private. Cowherd was spot-on, time to grow-up.

 

[Hoosier_Vol]

 

[VolBall09]

Plum's "tattle" on Clark was just strange. Clark and everyone on "her" team wore the shirt so what's the beef?

A Union negotiation is a time for solidarity not pettiness. If Plum has a grudge with Clark (which seems to be the case), keep it private. Cowherd was spot-on, time to grow-up.

Many of them do. It’s a bit sad to see them confirming many stereotypes about women. The jealousy and pettiness is nasty and a bad look in general.

Plum is notoriously dim and this isn’t the first time she’s done something weird like that.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Dayum, @Hoosier_Vol

 

[maple]

Plum's "tattle" on Clark was just strange. Clark and everyone on "her" team wore the shirt so what's the beef?

I believe the context of the "tattle" was a joke that was taken out of context for clicks. Anything to stir up the CC outrage (from either side).

 

[n_huffhines]

Of course, WNBA players deserve more money. Does nobody see how these franchise valuations are skyrocketing? Like, what else do you need? You're just going to take the word of the league with their accounting tricks over common sense?

Who thinks Caitlyn Clark's value to the league is anywhere near $78k? Get real. They pay all the players a combined $17m, and CC is worth that by herself.

I can't think of a bigger loser energy than sitting on message boards joking about why girls shouldn't get paid what they're worth in sports.

 

[n_huffhines]

Plum's "tattle" on Clark was just strange. Clark and everyone on "her" team wore the shirt so what's the beef?

A Union negotiation is a time for solidarity not pettiness. If Plum has a grudge with Clark (which seems to be the case), keep it private. Cowherd was spot-on, time to grow-up.

Clark is the happiest person in the WNBA with regards to $ because of all the sponsorship it makes available to her, and she has reason to not want to rock the boat, but she still fkn wore the shirt.

I was a Plum fan, but this **** was so stupid.

 

[madtownvol]

I believe the context of the "tattle" was a joke that was taken out of context for clicks. Anything to stir up the CC outrage (from either side).

This one is a little mixed, the full clip is public and the comment was not taken out of context. Plum did say she was trying to keep it “light” but Sabrina Ionescu literally cringed when Plum made the remark. It is hard to see what the joke was. Perhaps some weird reference to saying our team is better than the other all star team but it remains a dumb comment to make at the time, particularly from the VP of the players union,

 

[maple]

This one is a little mixed, the full clip is public and the comment was not taken out of context. Plum did say she was trying to keep it “light” but Sabrina Ionescu literally cringed when Plum made the remark. It is hard to see what the joke was. Perhaps some weird reference to saying our team is better than the other all star team but it remains a dumb comment to make at the time, particularly from the VP of the players union,

I’ll agree with you then. I don’t think most players in the W hate CC or are jealous of her or any of those dumb narratives, but it doesn’t help when people put their foot in their mouths either.

Edit: For what it’s worth, I don’t like the narrative that “women are the worst critics of other women” since you can go online and see some of the nastiest things ever typed out being sent by men to some of these players. Also I am a woman and I don’t like CC. But I dislike her because I am a UConn fan and also a basketball fan who remembers pre-CC hype days — though when I say “I dislike her” it’s more I dislike the way her style of play, the rabid and sometimes toxic fanbase of people who just started watching two years ago, and the obnoxious media. I don’t know CC personally and she’s probably a lovely person off the court. And I would argue that is generally the normal opinion of people who “dislike” her.