WNBA discussion thread?

[chuckiepoo]

Still don't think the Ladies wil get the 50/50 Revenue sharing like NBA players do...

…and that does seem unfair. Tough issue. At what point do the investors (owners) recoup their losses and move forward with an equitable agreement? That’s basically the purpose of the CBA.

 

[knoxvol52]

…and that does seem unfair. Tough issue. At what point do the players investors (owners) recoup their losses and move forward with an equitable agreement? That’s basically what the purpose of the CBA.

NBA Revenue for the season just completed was 10.3 billion... The WNBA may generate a little over a billion.. even with the new generation of players it will be hard to generate much more than the billion...going forward.

 

[1reVOLver]

From an investor viewpoint, the P&L losses don't matter much if the equity appreciates substantially. The marketing incompetence that causes losses can be fixed.

 

[madtownvol]

From an investor viewpoint, the P&L losses don't matter much if the equity appreciates substantially. The marketing incompetence that causes losses can be fixed.

More to the point, WNBA losses are an accounting fiction. David Portnoy of Barstool Sports explains:

"I see lots of morons trying to act like WNBA players don’t deserve more money," Portnoy tweeted. "They are throwing around this 'lost 50 million' number that nobody even knows where it comes from. The finances of the league are a mess, tied in with NBA and purposely murkey. The owners don’t want to say how the league is doing cause then you gotta pay more going into bargaining agreement. The league is exploding. Franchise values are exploding. Ticket sales, merch, TV rights all exploding. The players have an opt-out in their CBA. Of course they took it. It’s all about leverage in re-negotiations and for the 1st time in history of league players have power. The players make virtually nothing while the entire league explodes. Of course they deserve more money. Just the values of the team pay for it without all the other stuff. If somebody told me I could buy a Boston team for 250 million I would do it without blinking. That’s all you got to know about the WNBA finances."

Just to be clear, the players are not asking to be paid NBA salaries (they are not delusional), they want the same revenue sharing deal as the men have.

Just to highlight how arbitrary these numbers are, the NBA jointly negotiates the media rights deal for the WNBA. A lot of the players wanted an independent negotiation but owners argued that it was better to be part of the NBA overall package. Consequently, more than a few analysts have suggested that the W's 200 million a year for 10 years media deal seriously undervalues the league but no one knows how big the number actually is since the NBA (who owns 60% of the league) draws the line between what is NBA and WNBA.

A good discussion of these financial complexities and obfuscations can be found here:

WNBA CBA negotiations: Where things stand after All-Star Weekend as potential work stoppage looms

The CBA, which expires Oct. 31, was a major topic in Indianapolis over the weekend

www.cbssports.com

Last thought, the players main negotiating leverage is a strike but that action would also be terrible for the league. The owners are probably betting that players would not risk their gains, which puts the players in more of a cornered position. It will be interesting see which side blinks first. Because so many are mindlessly parroting the 50 million dollar loss accounting fiction, public opinion will be against the players.

As Jemele Hill noted, all that "protect women's sports" energy magically disappeared once W players wore shirts demanding a more equitable CBA.

 

[chuckiepoo]

As Jemele Hill noting, all that "protect women's sports" energy magically disappeared once W players wore shirts demanding a more equitable CBA.

Now that’s a centered, responsible reference…

 

[madtownvol]

Now that’s a centered, responsible reference…

She has made some controversial statements in the past. The one that got her into some heat was "Rooting for the Celtics is like saying Hitler was a victim. It's like hoping Gorbachev would get to the blinking red button before Reagan." That comment was over the top and she apologized and retracted it quickly.

But she is not wrong on the WNBA situation.

A bit more from Jemele:

Another thing I notice is that all the people saying what these women don’t deserve keep citing the financials from this year, conveniently leaving out that their new media rights deal kicks in next season and is $200 MILLION a year,” she wrote. “The WNBA is adding multiple franchises because there are a line of investors wanting in. The financial trajectory is high. You think billionaires want to be in on bad products? The NBA lost money for over 40 years. Do you think player salaries stayed the same for 40 years? (Hint: They did not).”

 

[madtownvol]

NBA Revenue for the season just completed was 10.3 billion... The WNBA may generate a little over a billion.. even with the new generation of players it will be hard to generate much more than the billion...going forward.

Just over 50% of NBA revenue comes from media rights. That % is going to increase with the new media deal. Again, in the jointly negotiated media contract, the NBA gets 7 billion a year and the W gets 200 million. Switch the numbers to $6.5 billions and $700 million and the economics of W look entirely different.

In sum, there is a lot of play in these accounting numbers.

 

[RandomUTfan]

I was looking into the WNBA's finances the other day after seeing somewhere they lost 50 million dollars. Unless I misunderstand Capitalism companies that lose money cease to exist. It was clear upon just a cursory amount of research that the finances of the league are being deliberately obscured so they can claim they aren't making money off of it.

 

[madtownvol]

I was looking into the WNBA's finances the other day after seeing somewhere they lost 50 million dollars. Unless I misunderstand Capitalism companies that lose money cease to exist. It was clear upon just a cursory amount of research that the finances of the league are being deliberately obscured so they can claim they aren't making money off of it.

Well, lots of companies particularly in the tech sector (including Tesla) operate in the red for long periods of time and are kept afloat by venture capitalists who are betting on longer term pay offs. The rules of capitalism that apply to your local mom and pop butcher shop are not same for large corporate ventures.

The WNBA was kind of a tax write-off for the NBA and a longer term bet for investors but it very likely has turned into a revenue generator in more recent years and that reality is probably being masked through accounting practices-- that is another component of the players displeasure

 

[RandomUTfan]

Well, lots of companies particularly in the tech sector (including Tesla) operate in the red for long periods of time and are kept afloat by venture capitalist who are betting on longer term pay offs. The rules of capitalism that apply to your local mom and pop butcher shop are not same for large corporate ventures.

The WNBA was kind of a tax write-off for the NBA and a longer term bet for investors but it very likely has turned into a revenue generator in more recent years and that reality is probably being masked through accounting practices-- that is another component of the players displeasure

Yeah, you have a point, but you're also talking about ventures with promises of long-term profitablity. The way they talk about the WNBA there's no hope of profitability. And we both agree that's pretty ludicrous.