Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

#277
#277
butchna said:
Graham-3 NFL titles. That All-American League was glorified sandlot football. Made the Super Bowl twice as much as any of your other candidates...as well as Manning. Better.
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Sandlot?

NFL HOF: Paul Brown, Marion Motley, Lou Groza
 
#278
#278
spyfish007 said:
Why do you seem to think that only Peyton got punched in the mouth? Meaning his teammates are being left out.
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Couldn’t rise above it. Happened against Nebraska in the Fiesta Bowl too. Lot of heroic performances and that’s why I’m a fan. Could go fetal position on you tho. Brady never did.
 
#280
#280
butchna said:
29>9 Brady’s also been greater longer...as well as simply greater. Lombardi’s Packer’s lived and died with the Sweep. A trained aardvark coulda won games at QB for them. There you go being naive again. 😉
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Brady has also had the luxury of a top 10 scoring defense in the vast majority of his tenure.
 
#283
#283
butchna said:
Should have been able to score. Peyton would fold when punched in the mouth. See that Jets playoff game also. No examples of that with Brady.
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You've gotta be kidding.

Brady got blown out by the Lions just this year! Had 38 QBR.
And the Titans! Had 29.5 QBR. Benched.
 
#285
#285
lifeisdeep said:
Anybody who has ever watched Brady for even one of his record number of fourth-quarter comebacks and still tries to say he's not the greatest is just being disingenuous. And that's a nice word for it. I've prided myself since I was a kid on never being a bandwagoner; I grew up a Redskins fan because my uncle lived in D.C. for years and was a fan of them. I was pulling for the Rams in 2001 because I knew Warner's story and admired him. And it took all of one game watching Brady play to make me a Pats fan, and I've been one ever since. I don't see how anyone can watch greatness on that level and try to diminish it. But that's just me.
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Yeah he was great in that game threw for about 140 yards. I think Brady kicked the winning 48 yard field goal too.
 
#286
#286
BigOrangeTrain said:
Brady has also had the luxury of a top 10 scoring defense in the vast majority of his tenure.
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Never shut down another team in the Super Bowl. They made Jake Delhomme a lot of money. Outscored them 5 times tho.
 
#288
#288
WiseOlVol said:
On your last point, Denver is outdoors, cold, windy and high.
PManning turned them into a championship contender and champion.
He had the best season (2013) any QB ever had in Denver (set 4 untouchable records).
When he left, they returned to the cellar.

You're fixated on SBs as if football started in 1966. The AFL started in 1960 (and wasn't competitive for a decade); Graham retired in 53. Graham played in the Championship Games that there were -- 10 times in 10 years. Brady 8 times in 19 years.
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I corrected my prior post about PM and being in Denver.....but just check his #s in the playoffs in the DOME and out of the DOME....

And I'm NOT fixated on the SBs....I'm trying to compare apples with apples.

I do know that the AFL existed as a separate league in competition with the NFL for several years. But the NFL didn't recognize them as a professional league qualified to compete for the NFL Championship until the first Super Bowl game was played at the end of the 1966 season between the AFL & NFL.

The NFL championships were games played between Eastern and Western conference champions in the NFL until the first SB.
In effect, the NFL Championship was for all practical purposes EXACTLY what the AFC/NFC conference championships are today!!
Therefore, in an attempt to keep an "apples to apples" comparison between Graham, Starr, Brady, and Manning--I examined the AFC conference championships.

2 RBs (Taylor and Hornung) and 3 of Starr's OL during his tenure at GB are in the HOF.
Otto Graham had Marion Motley running the ball during his tenure.

Can you name 1 RB for the Patriots during Brady's tenure who made the Pro-Bowl?
Can you name 1 RB who has even finished in the top 10 of AFC RBs in rushing YPG average for the Patriots during Brady's tenure?

Manning had Marshall Faulk at his best while Faulk was in Indy.

It doesn't matter to you guys. PM is always gonna be the GOAT to you because he's a VOL. I understand it....and I love PM. He was the best ambassador for the NFL while he played. NO ONE played with more class and intelligence than PM. And maybe no one respected the game and his competitors as much as PM, either. And he definitely will always be one of the top 5 QBs to ever play the game.

But he just isn't the GOAT from ANY perspective for anyone who isn't a UT Volunteer fan.
 
#289
#289
lifeisdeep said:
Anybody who has ever watched Brady for even one of his record number of fourth-quarter comebacks and still tries to say he's not the greatest is just being disingenuous.....
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Inform yourself.
Brady has 40 4th Q comebacks. In 19 years.
PManning holds record @ 45. In 16 years.
 
#290
#290
lifeisdeep said:
Anybody who has ever watched Brady for even one of his record number of fourth-quarter comebacks and still tries to say he's not the greatest is just being disingenuous. And that's a nice word for it. I've prided myself since I was a kid on never being a bandwagoner; I grew up a Redskins fan because my uncle lived in D.C. for years and was a fan of them. I was pulling for the Rams in 2001 because I knew Warner's story and admired him. And it took all of one game watching Brady play to make me a Pats fan, and I've been one ever since. I don't see how anyone can watch greatness on that level and try to diminish it. But that's just me.
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Sorry to tell you but as with many of the Patriots SB wins, it was the defense that should get the majority of the credit for that win.
 
#291
#291
PhoenixAZVol said:
Yeah he was great in that game threw for about 140 yards. I think Brady kicked the winning 48 yard field goal too.
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Second year in the league...first as a starter and only after Bledsoe got injured. Nowhere close to what he eventually became...won anyway.
 
#294
#294
WiseOlVol said:
Inform yourself.
Brady has 40 4th Q comebacks. In 19 years.
PManning holds record @ 45. In 16 years.
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Brady usually built more leads...negating comebacks. Fun stat...but tactically useless. Troy Aikman made the HOF and his teams didn’t require many COMEBACKS during their halcyon days.
 
#296
#296
MikeVol44 said:
...It doesn't matter to you guys. PM is always gonna be the GOAT to you because he's a VOL. I understand it....and I love PM. He was the best ambassador for the NFL while he played. NO ONE played with more class and intelligence than PM. And maybe no one respected the game and his competitors as much as PM, either. And he definitely will always be one of the top 5 QBs to ever play the game.

But he just isn't the GOAT from ANY perspective for anyone who isn't a UT Volunteer fan.
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Until somebody (it won't be Brady) gets to 5 NFL MVPs and 7 All-Pros, it's PManning.
These are individual awards.
The GOAT is, by necessity, an individual.

You'll say Brady has played on 5 NFL Championship teams and therefore he's the GOAT.
These necessarily are team accomplishments.
100 people get Super Bowl rings.
 
#297
#297
butchna said:
Second year in the league...first as a starter and only after Bledsoe got injured. Nowhere close to what he eventually became...won anyway.
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12 points scored by kicker and a Pats INT. So Bradys numbers were pedestrian. Pats D picked off Warner twice, sacked him 3 times, held Faulk without a catch or a TD and kept him under 100 yards rushing. Also while keeping the highest scoring team in the NFL to almost 3TDs under their average.

Take away Laws INT and the Pats lose. Just stop. While Brady has been great, he has benefitted from his great defenses.
 
#300
#300
BigOrangeTrain said:
12 points scored by kicker and a Pats INT. So Bradys numbers were pedestrian. Pats D picked off Warner twice, sacked him 3 times, held Faulk without a catch or a TD and kept him under 100 yards rushing. Also while keeping the highest scoring team in the NFL to almost 3TDs under their average.

Take away Laws INT and the Pats lose. Just stop. While Brady has been great, he has benefitted from his great defenses.
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Brady 145 yards. Kicker won the game.
 
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