Will Jalen Hurd make an All SEC Team?

#177
#177
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Mike...whatever. It is monumental stupidity to think this is an ok thing to do. You like it because you want it to be a means to an end. There is nothing good coming from this....nothing.
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I didn't rattle your chain...but since you spoke up....reading is elementary......

I never said that I liked it...I agreed with Bruin that it shouldn't be out in the public....but I did say that it would be worse for Hurd, et. al...to say nothing and then LEAVE the program....

I would be best if HURD took his concerns privately to the AD........and attempted to work it out that way....and we don't know if he's done that or not....

So far--we've had some guys leave and written it off as just immaturity and whining.....HURD isn't whining...and CBJ and crew would never be able to justify his leaving the program....and it would hurt recruiting....and then you'd be the one whining about "what happened???"

it would be immature and childish for HURD to leave--and would hurt him personally--but that wouldn't change the fact that CBJ has demonstrated his arrogance and unwillingness to adjust and adapt his system to SEC competition--and sitting at 5-4 instead of at least 7-2 validates that opinion...his system or his coaching has repeatedly FAILED the program and players in at least 3 of our 4 losses this year in the second half...

and all of these folks quoting stats about our offense's success--I would ask them--against who???? Who have we beaten this year--or any year since CBJ has been here that was truly a quality team?????

we're 1-2 against UGA....and 3-0 against USCe....Is beating USCe the measuring stick we want to use for success???

I ALSO said that--it would be BEST for Hurd's overall development if he would submit to the coaching staff and the system in the end...a lesson that's hard to learn when you're 20....

and finally--I also said--in trying to put myself in Hurd's shoes--that maybe he and 74 are frustrated with a lack of willingness on CBJ and crew to CHANGE...

And--I'm certainly not Machiavellian in my approaches.....but if you really don't think that changes need to be made by this coaching staff in their approach to SEC football.....then I have nothing else for you.....

:salute:
 
#178
#178
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Not going to comment on alot of what i just read besides it being discouraging as a Vol fan. Hurd is my favorite player and I think he fits the scheme great. We just dont have the big nastys up front but will next year.


As a comparison Fournette had 9 car for 9 yards by halftime against bama. Finished with 31 yards on 19 car. A QB under center with FB and RB inbehind doesn't mean more yards.......Our scheme gave us a shot at beating Bama.
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Well....just check out the numbers LSU has put up running the ball this year against all other SEC competition...including Fla....

Bama is elite in their front 7 and LSU's youth was exposed.....and I just watched the replay of that game last night--LSU did miss some opportunities for huge plays using Fournette in that game....2 were on Fournette's failure to cut it back and hit the open hole...and 2 were on their QB....missing a wide open Fournette.....

You can say that our scheme gave us a shot at Bama....but then you must ALSO say that our scheme cost us the games against OK and Fla....and possibly Arky....
 
#179
#179
MikeVol44 said:
You can say that our scheme gave us a shot at Bama....but then you must ALSO say that our scheme cost us the games against OK and Fla....and possibly Arky....
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we ran for 250 yards against FL. we ran effectively against Bama and ARK.

offensively, we've been able to run the ball.

not sure where all this vitriol is coming from regarding the running game.

it's not a traditional i formation, follow a full back running game....but it gets a lot of people involved.

if you want to criticize the scheme, here's a valid criticism...

it doesn't do enough to win on 1st down.....and running Hurd outside doesn't work, but it's necessary b/c the O line is not making holes in the middle.

with movements and motions we do, the jet sweep action...we could do more misdirection, we could do more pass options, include a reverse...

anyway, it all starts with the o line.

Hurd gets those "dirty" yards. he doesn't get the wide open holes Henry and Fournette get. the few times Hurd has been in open space, he's been good. that screen against KY was as fluid as i've seen him, and against GA, he was as physical as any back has been all year.

Hurd's good. he turns chicken s..t in to chicken salad.

next year, the line will get better, he'll be better,...dobbs better be better...the wr's better be better....kamara will be better (if he's there).

long story short....next year could be a break out year offensively for several people.....IF THE OFFENSIVE LINE CAN MAKE REAL PROGRESS THIS OFF SEASON.

moderate improvement that we've seen this year is not going to get it next year. that O Line needs to be beastly with some of the fronts we're going to see next year.
 
#181
#181
KBVol said:
Hahahahaha!!!! Dude just stop it. Hurd is a fine back , but to say he's "so much better than Henry"....dear God alive, give it a rest. Henry's a bigger, stronger, faster athlete than Jalen....just is what it is.
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Henry is neither bigger, nor stronger. Faster, maybe, but that is it.
 
#182
#182
orangetd88 said:
Henry is neither bigger, nor stronger. Faster, maybe, but that is it.
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I am a huge Hurd fan but when you compare him physically to Henry there is a big difference. Yea on paper Henry might be 6-3/242 and Hurd 6-4/240 according to the school websites but they are two different body types.

Henry is much more barrel chested and his arms look much bigger than Hurds so I would certainly say Henry is the bigger back. Hurd appears to have his weight spread evenly and looks more cut than bulk. And stronger? I don't know what Jalen is lifting and I wish I could lift half as much as him but have you seen the videos of Henry squating 500lbs and doing all the tire flips. I am sure Hurd is close but Henry is a freak. I would still pick Hurd over Henry, I like his running style and shows more quickness as well. I also don't think he makes an all SEC team but he is good enough to be considered.
 
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#183
#183
jakez4ut said:
we ran for 250 yards against FL. we ran effectively against Bama and ARK.

offensively, we've been able to run the ball.

But not when it mattered most....and we've not been able to run the ball for good success in the 2nd half of any game this year except against UGA...check those stats....

not sure where all this vitriol is coming from regarding the running game.

not vitriol....just conclusions from observations over the last 2 years and a 5-4 record this year that should be at least 7-2....this system requires a STUD QB...but our STUD is HURD....

it's not a traditional i formation, follow a full back running game....but it gets a lot of people involved.

And it has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in at least 3 of 4 games this year....and I like the inverted veer as part of an overall running scheme....and not saying that we have to run 100% out of traditional I packages....but I sure would like to see a short-yardage package with Hurd dotting the Power I formation and watch him score against Fla from the 1/2 yd line....

if you want to criticize the scheme, here's a valid criticism...it doesn't do enough to win on 1st down.....

Ok, Jake.....it's more than just first downs....it hasn't out-produced ANY SEC team we've played this year except for UGA...in the 2nd half....and that's not vitriol--it's FACT...

1. We don't win 1st down in this offense.....this offense doesn't put us in 2nd and 5s or 2nd and 4s very often....there was a stat in one of the televised games that exposed this very fact....we haven't been winning first downs....

2. This offense doesn't win 2nd halves.....against the quality opponents....OK, Fla, Arky, Bama, USCe.....it didn't produce in the 2nd half of any of those games....check the stats regarding our 2nd half production......the only team we've beaten in the 2nd half is UGA...

3. The VEER (read-option, whatever label you identify with best...they all leave a defender unblocked and option his decision) is not a new scheme.....blocking by the OL for the VEER has always been the same...we just invert it and that puts the FEATURE on the QB...

You must have a STUD QB to succeed....Fla had one in Tebow...Auburn has had 2 in Cam Newton and Nick Marshall....Ohio State has Jones...but they won last year because they fed their AA tailback the ball and he ran between the tackles...

No stud QB = no success....and although Dobbs is good--he ain't a stud....however, HURD is our STUD and this system doesn't fully utilize his abilities...and it doesn't even utilize the full capabilities of Kamara....

And, truly--this scheme doesn't even utilize Dobbs' talents to the fullest....EVERYONE knows that Dobbs is not the QB who can stand back in the pocket and pick apart a defense...His abilities and talents would be better served--for at least 30-40% of an offensive system...with him being put in a position to throw the ball down the field off of play-action.....

And, yes--I would like to see Hurd have the opportunity to run the ball on some isolation plays and toss-sweeps....which would give him the opportunity to hit the line of scrimmage with shoulders square and at full-speed...

You conclude that it's all on the OL and that another year of development will make things right....a seemingly logical deduction...and there is a thread of truth in there....but this same "inexperienced and young" OL has produced 2 TD leads against 4 quality opponents in the first half--how do you justify your conclusions with those actual facts?

And--we haven't even discussed our Defensive scheme....
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#185
#185
BruinVol said:
Serious?
I certainly hope that was a joke
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Okay...it might seem stupid....but--I have agreed with you that it is not best to make his displeasure public....

but I haven't read any of your suggestions as to what you think HURD should do...no anger there...just an honest question..

What would you honestly suggest that he do? 74 says that he's had several conversations with Jones....and is actually frustrated enough that he's seriously considering leaving the program.....

How do you professionally deal with the brightest star in your program--not in an effort to give in to him--but in an honest and transparent effort to listen and reason with him??

Should Hurd and 74 just shut up and leave? Should they just shut up and bear up and endure and leave after next year?

Does the program just allow Jones to run his ship without anyone being able to sit down behind closed doors with Jones and demand changes?

Obviously--I think changes should be made....but once again--if you are Dave Hart--and in charge--and this info comes to your attention--How do you attempt to resolve the conflict?

:salute:
 
#186
#186
MikeVol44 said:
Okay...it might seem stupid....but--I have agreed with you that it is not best to make his displeasure public....

but I haven't read any of your suggestions as to what you think HURD should do...no anger there...just an honest question..

What would you honestly suggest that he do? 74 says that he's had several conversations with Jones....and is actually frustrated enough that he's seriously considering leaving the program.....

How do you professionally deal with the brightest star in your program--not in an effort to give in to him--but in an honest and transparent effort to listen and reason with him??

Should Hurd and 74 just shut up and leave? Should they just shut up and bear up and endure and leave after next year?

Does the program just allow Jones to run his ship without anyone being able to sit down behind closed doors with Jones and demand changes?

Obviously--I think changes should be made....but once again--if you are Dave Hart--and in charge--and this info comes to your attention--How do you attempt to resolve the conflict?

:salute:
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It's pretty simple what Hurd should do assuming he has already met with jones about the scheme and nothing has changed.

He should realize he is apart of something much larger than himself and do the very best he can within its parameters.


He should realize he is a player and not the coach and go to work being a good teammate.

He should instruct anyone close to him to keep any frustrations behind closed doors.

He in absolutely no shape form or fashion do Anything more than having a face to face civil conversation with his coaches. Meeting with the AD is beyond unacceptable over a matter such as scheme.

If he isn't on board with accepting these things things then hit the road jack.
 
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#187
#187
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Not going to comment on alot of what i just read besides it being discouraging as a Vol fan. Hurd is my favorite player and I think he fits the scheme great. We just dont have the big nastys up front but will next year.


As a comparison Fournette had 9 car for 9 yards by halftime against bama. Finished with 31 yards on 19 car. A QB under center with FB and RB inbehind doesn't mean more yards.

Teams are built to stop traditional football. Our scheme gave us a shot at beating Bama.
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Lost to alot of posters in this thread, we actually outrushed Bammer this year. Look it up, it's a matter of public record.
 
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#188
#188
BruinVol said:
I am 100% fine with the frustrations about the offense. In fact I don't think the spread can win championships without a heisman type QB in the SEC and have said that from day 1 of the cbj era.

However I didn't committ to play for a coach that has a track record with that style.

I am 100% against the player allowing his frustrations to be brought here out in the open. Shame on the kid, 74, or both.
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Do we know what coaches tell these kids to get them to their school? And thats not just Jones but many coaches in general. I wouldn't pretend to know in every situation and no one should including you.
 
#189
#189
Hurd's big year will be next year. He will hit the 1000 mark this year, but the sky is the limit for him next year.
 
#190
#190
Remy said:
Lost to alot of posters in this thread, we actually outrushed Bammer this year. Look it up, it's a matter of public record.
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Look up the sack yardage....it will enlighten you....

Henry had 28 attempts for 143 yards....

As a team--we had 39 attempts for 132 yards....

oops!
 
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#191
#191
BruinVol said:
It's pretty simple what Hurd should do assuming he has already met with jones about the scheme and nothing has changed.

He should realize he is apart of something much larger than himself and do the very best he can within its parameters.


He should realize he is a player and not the coach and go to work being a good teammate.

He should instruct anyone close to him to keep any frustrations behind closed doors.

He in absolutely no shape form or fashion do Anything more than having a face to face civil conversation with his coaches. Meeting with the AD is beyond unacceptable over a matter such as scheme.

If he isn't on board with accepting these things things then hit the road jack.
Click to expand...

Okay....thanks....I really can't disagree with anything you've said....I suppose my idea of suggesting a meeting with Hart is not so smart after all....:hi:

I've been wrong before and I will be wrong again...I can take correction.....

By the way--I was faced with the very same frustrations when I played high school baseball....was indeed the better catcher...a SR...a better hitter...but my coach would only play me as a DH...and played a sophomore ahead of me....I asked my uncle for his advice....and he instructed me to be a man, take my concerns to the coach--and leave it there....

My smart-azz coach told me that I was just half a player and that nothing would change....and I had a decision to make....I could leave or do what you suggested above....it was one of the VERY FEW times I actually got something right as a teenager...I stayed--not because I liked the coach, but because I truly loved my team-mates--and I loved BASEBALL!

Here's a another question--in the true spirit of honest discussion--what would you do with this knowledge of Hurd's malcontent if you are Dave Hart? Would you address it with CBJ?
 
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#192
#192
MikeVol44 said:
Okay...it might seem stupid....but--I have agreed with you that it is not best to make his displeasure public....

but I haven't read any of your suggestions as to what you think HURD should do...no anger there...just an honest question..

What would you honestly suggest that he do? 74 says that he's had several conversations with Jones....and is actually frustrated enough that he's seriously considering leaving the program.....

How do you professionally deal with the brightest star in your program--not in an effort to give in to him--but in an honest and transparent effort to listen and reason with him??

Should Hurd and 74 just shut up and leave? Should they just shut up and bear up and endure and leave after next year?

Does the program just allow Jones to run his ship without anyone being able to sit down behind closed doors with Jones and demand changes?

Obviously--I think changes should be made....but once again--if you are Dave Hart--and in charge--and this info comes to your attention--How do you attempt to resolve the conflict?

:salute:
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I suggest he go on a hunger strike and refuse to play until CBJ is either fahred or agrees to switch to his preferred offensive system. Worked at MZ?
 
#193
#193
BruinVol said:
Just to be clear here.

You think airing out these frustrations here is warranted?
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The truth hurts...

God forbid someone close to the situation tell us what's really going on... Jesus you act like he shouldn't be entitled to sharing that information. Take off the orange colored shades and remember this a kid here thinkin about his future. If he thinks he would be better in a different system or in a system that features more north-to-south running plays then...well...common sense kind of indicates that he is right. Our offense does not particularly suit Hurd's style of running. Hurd is one of the best all-around backs in the SEC and I truly believe the coaches are shooting themselves in the foot by not giving him more designed running plays that go north-south.

In the end, 74 says what he knows and I'm okay with it because it's the reality of the situation.
 
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#194
#194
MikeVol44 said:
Here's a another question--in the true spirit of honest discussion--what would you do with this knowledge of Hurd's malcontent if you are Dave Hart? Would you address it with CBJ?
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This issue has nothing to do with the AD and the AD should have zero action regarding it. This is a coach/ player thing solely
 
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#196
#196
Volsick said:
Hurd's big year will be next year. He will hit the 1000 mark this year, but the sky is the limit for him next year.
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I see this all the time but honestly how? We're still going to have the same offensive line with Richmond starting. That'll be the only different player that's playing. Jones and hall play most the game anyway. It won't be much different next year then it is this year.
 
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#197
#197
gobraves101035 said:
I see this all the time but honestly how? We're still going to have the same offensive line with Richmond starting. That'll be the only different player that's playing. Jones and hall play most the game anyway. It won't be much different next year then it is this year.
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said it earlier this thread:
long story short....next year could be a break out year offensively for several people.....IF THE OFFENSIVE LINE CAN MAKE REAL PROGRESS THIS OFF SEASON.
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most of this team is re built and has pretty good depth for next year.

most if it except the O line.

the hole Dooley left us in there was real, and it was big. Generally O linement take the longest to develop...strength, smarts, agility.....

this is where we're the most deficient, and barring any other set backs, will be the big question heading in to next year too.
 
#198
#198
Reading is elementary? You are a long winded balloon full of hot air. It is obvious that you want this to be a means to your end. You hate the system, and you want it changed. If Hurd screws up team chemistry by being a selfish butthole, then so be it...right? The quicker to get rid of Butch and his crappy system. I understand frustration, but I hate the selfish "whatever is best for me" nature that pervades "team" sports now...NOTHING good comes from this for the TEAM. I'm sure you will respond with another long winded monologue about how Hurd is a champion of social justice, and he is only standing up to that scumbag, totalitarian coach because it is the right thing to do, but I'm done, that is all I to say about that...have a nice day. ��
 
#199
#199
GwinnettVol21 said:
I am a huge Hurd fan but when you compare him physically to Henry there is a big difference. Yea on paper Henry might be 6-3/242 and Hurd 6-4/240 according to the school websites but they are two different body types.

Henry is much more barrel chested and his arms look much bigger than Hurds so I would certainly say Henry is the bigger back. Hurd appears to have his weight spread evenly and looks more cut than bulk. And stronger? I don't know what Jalen is lifting and I wish I could lift half as much as him but have you seen the videos of Henry squating 500lbs and doing all the tire flips. I am sure Hurd is close but Henry is a freak. I would still pick Hurd over Henry, I like his running style and shows more quickness as well. I also don't think he makes an all SEC team but he is good enough to be considered.
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OK, so I was wrong. I didn't think he was as heavy or tall as Hurd, but he is pretty dang close.

I stand corrected.
 
#200
#200
MikeVol44 said:
Okay....thanks....I really can't disagree with anything you've said....I suppose my idea of suggesting a meeting with Hart is not so smart after all....:hi:

I've been wrong before and I will be wrong again...I can take correction.....

By the way--I was faced with the very same frustrations when I played high school baseball....was indeed the better catcher...a SR...a better hitter...but my coach would only play me as a DH...and played a sophomore ahead of me....I asked my uncle for his advice....and he instructed me to be a man, take my concerns to the coach--and leave it there....

My smart-azz coach told me that I was just half a player and that nothing would change....and I had a decision to make....I could leave or do what you suggested above....it was one of the VERY FEW times I actually got something right as a teenager...I stayed--not because I liked the coach, but because I truly loved my team-mates--and I loved BASEBALL!

Here's a another question--in the true spirit of honest discussion--what would you do with this knowledge of Hurd's malcontent if you are Dave Hart? Would you address it with CBJ?
Click to expand...

I hoped a few years later as a man that you went and beat his punk ... and curb stomped that idiot. He probably was going turkey hunting with the soph dad who was taking him places he could not go otherwise. Seen that played out with some kids I know before.
 
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