Why Was Our Defense So Bad Against SC?

#77
#77
MikeVol44 said:
Development is NOT the problem....KONGBO is.....Fulmer used to say that sometimes you get players who "look like Tarzan, but play like Jane."

He's not an enigma--he's the reality. Not every big, tall, strong guy has the ability to play SEC FB....
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The way recruiting is now, as opposed to Fulmer's era, coaches have ample opportunity to determine if the player can be coached/developed before signing them. There are always exceptions, and nobody gets every single player they want; but most coaches have a pretty good idea if a kid is going to be coachable.

Maybe Kongbo isn't going to further develop, and it's all his fault; but that's not really the point... the point is few of the other defensive players seem to improve much, either. Seems to me if none of the players improve perceptibly, then they weren't all wrongly evaluated by all those recruiting sites, not to mention all those other HC's nationwide... doesn't seem likely; seems much more likely that a coach isn't getting all their potential out of them.

But, hey, if Vols fans are satisfied with the coaching and development, and think an infusion of 25 equally talented players is the panacea, that's their prerogative. Objectively, I guess I just expected a lot more from a defensive-minded coach; didn't really think there'd be more questions on defense than offense, given the resume.
 
#78
#78
G8R8U2 said:
The way recruiting is now, as opposed to Fulmer's era, coaches have ample opportunity to determine if the player can be coached/developed before signing them. There are always exceptions, and nobody gets every single player they want; but most coaches have a pretty good idea if a kid is going to be coachable.

Maybe Kongbo isn't going to further develop, and it's all his fault; but that's not really the point... the point is few of the other defensive players seem to improve much, either. Seems to me if none of the players improve perceptibly, then they weren't all wrongly evaluated by all those recruiting sites, not to mention all those other HC's nationwide... doesn't seem likely; seems much more likely that a coach isn't getting all their potential out of them.

But, hey, if Vols fans are satisfied with the coaching and development, and think an infusion of 25 equally talented players is the panacea, that's their prerogative. Objectively, I guess I just expected a lot more from a defensive-minded coach; didn't really think there'd be more questions on defense than offense, given the resume.
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You specifically said that Kongbo was not the problem...that we just don't have coaches that can develop him.

I countered with the fact that Kongbo is a player who looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane.

And, although players have all of those camps they go to--Under Armor, Army, yada...yada...yada.... it still doesn't mean that you will not run into players who "look like Tarzan and play like Jane". Kahlil Mackenzie is a PRIME EXAMPLE.

And you just completely FAIL to understand that you cannot turn a MULE into a thoroughbred.

We now have a BETTER coaching staff who has coached at the highest level on CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS evaluating the talent. They can't do ANYTHING about the mules on the current roster--and they know the difference between a MULE and a THOROUGHBRED.

At the end of the day--all that I am trying to say to you is that you are making your decisions about the current coaching staff TOO SOON! Give them at least time to turn out the mules and bring in their own players. Good grief, man--just how hard is that to understand.
 
#79
#79
I think two issues. We needed to be more 3-4 instead of nickel. I saw Tuttle and Phillips getting some push, but our LBs couldn’t get off of blocks.

I think there were two big plays. I thought he pass interference towards the end was a bad call as he barely touched him. Our WRs were mugged on the deep throws. The other deep throw also was bad play on our D.

Other than that we ran a lot of nickel versus 3-4 and they ran into that with 1-2 TEs. We should have gone to base D, but that is just totally an opinion. I think we were trying to avoid the big play
 
#80
#80
In my opinion our linebackers were very bad in this game. They weren't filling gaps they weren't attacking the line of scrimmage. They were sitting back waiting to be blocked.
 
#81
#81
There is not a single player on UT's defense who would start for another team in the SEC. The talent level is just that bad. Warrior is good but struggles with lining up correctly and consistent effort, Bituli is good but not as fast or as physical as other SEC linebackers, Tuttle would have been a star if not for that punk OL from UGA. No one else is even worth a mention.

It will take a lot of time in the weight room, in the film room, and on the practice field for a few of the younger guys to get to an SEC level but realistically, its' just gonna take a lot of recruiting.

Summitt, the linebackers have been very bad all year.
 
#82
#82
Backwards K said:
There is not a single player on UT's defense who would start for another team in the SEC. The talent level is just that bad. Warrior is good but struggles with lining up correctly and consistent effort, Bituli is good but not as fast or as physical as other SEC linebackers, Tuttle would have been a star if not for that punk OL from UGA. No one else is even worth a mention.

It will take a lot of time in the weight room, in the film room, and on the practice field for a few of the younger guys to get to an SEC level but realistically, its' just gonna take a lot of recruiting.

Summitt, the linebackers have been very bad all year.
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I don't think they have. They have had some good games.
 
#83
#83
VolSummitt44 said:
I don't think they have. They have had some good games.
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Against anyone other than UTEP or ETSU? They just seem to struggle with lining up correctly, guessing the right hole to fill and with speed and frankly in many cases they aren't strong enough to shed blockers.
 
#84
#84
Backwards K said:
There is not a single player on UT's defense who would start for another team in the SEC. The talent level is just that bad. Warrior is good but struggles with lining up correctly and consistent effort, Bituli is good but not as fast or as physical as other SEC linebackers, Tuttle would have been a star if not for that punk OL from UGA. No one else is even worth a mention.

It will take a lot of time in the weight room, in the film room, and on the practice field for a few of the younger guys to get to an SEC level but realistically, its' just gonna take a lot of recruiting.

Summitt, the linebackers have been very bad all year.
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There are more guys there than just those you mentioned who are supposed to be good. Kongbo was a highly recruited, #1 JUCO physical freak that never materialized. Kyle Phillips was a 5-star, another physical freak. DK Jr was a really good, productive player who has dealt with numerous injuries and is primarily on the team now for his intelligence and leadership. Kongbo and Phillips have had anonymous careers at Tennessee not because of a lack of talent. TK Jr was a highly-recruited kid who had a very promising freshman/sophomore year, then got hurt and fell off a 30 ft wall, and now doesn't even appear to be an SEC level player. It isn't unreasonable to believe that if some of these guys went other places, they would have been developed better and turned into productive players.

It isn't like Tennessee has recruited the scraps nobody else wanted. When I hear "lack of talent," I'd expect to see a defense full of 3-stars or guys who didn't have great offer lists. That just isn't the case. Are we just unlucky and ended up with all of the busts?
 
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#85
#85
Depth depth depth...both the offense and defensive lines were whipped midway through the third quarter. Until we can get a loaded roster, not even necessarily full of 4-5 stars but just bodies to keep your big dogs rested for when you need them, we will lose games in the second half.
 
#86
#86
Why was it bad? Maybe because our DL doesn’t plug any holes, the LBs can’t tackle, and the DBs couldn’t cover high school receivers. Other than that, I don’t know.
 
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#87
#87
O5, do you think any of the guys you mentioned would start for any other SEC team. Maybe Phillips. The rest have been injured and never fully recovered or have just not been very good . I don't know the reason, I just know what I see each week. A team devoid of many SEC level football players.

Not just the defense either. I'm not sure if there are any players on the offensive side who would start for another SEC team. Jennings is a good possession receiver who will catch the ball in traffic and battle for extra yards. There are probably a few teams he could start for. Who else would start for ANY SEC team?
 
#88
#88
Backwards K said:
Against anyone other than UTEP or ETSU? They just seem to struggle with lining up correctly, guessing the right hole to fill and with speed and frankly in many cases they aren't strong enough to shed blockers.
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I just don't agree that they have been bad all year.
 
#89
#89
Idk, but its been bad all year. Didn't just start now. S&P has had our defense in the 70s or 80s all year. Bottom 2 in the conference in rush D. No pass rushers.

Is what it is. Maybe just now people realize it because we finally playwd an unranked team and same things happened.
 
#91
#91
Defenses that are successful against SEC offenses can do two things. Stop the run and get pressure on the QB. The quicker you make the QB make decisions the better your chances that he cant make a play. The most annoying thing about the SC game was how much time their QB had to make a play. We seldom stopped the run but when we did he had all day to connect with a receiver. You cant win when you give a QB the time we gave him.
 
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#92
#92
DiderotsGhost said:
That's what terrifies me.

Right now, I see our offense moving in the right direction, and I think we could see a big jump in Year 2. On the defensive side of the ball, however, we're not playing well right now, and it only gets worse next year when a hefty chunk of our D-line are going to be true Freshmen!

Not that this is Pruitt's fault, but if our depth looks bad now with 4 seniors in the 2-deep on the D-line, what does it look like next year?!
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So this years excuse is talent and next years is already written down as youth? Look I understand what your saying, I really do... but this day and age the good to great programs win with young, talented players... you need good coaching and you need good players, lots of the good players these days are young players.... at some point we have got to quit spinning the excuse wheel. Again, I do understand where you are coming from and I’m not attacking you.
 
#93
#93
05_never_again said:
There are more guys there than just those you mentioned who are supposed to be good. Kongbo was a highly recruited, #1 JUCO physical freak that never materialized. Kyle Phillips was a 5-star, another physical freak. DK Jr was a really good, productive player who has dealt with numerous injuries and is primarily on the team now for his intelligence and leadership. Kongbo and Phillips have had anonymous careers at Tennessee not because of a lack of talent. TK Jr was a highly-recruited kid who had a very promising freshman/sophomore year, then got hurt and fell off a 30 ft wall, and now doesn't even appear to be an SEC level player. It isn't unreasonable to believe that if some of these guys went other places, they would have been developed better and turned into productive players.

It isn't like Tennessee has recruited the scraps nobody else wanted. When I hear "lack of talent," I'd expect to see a defense full of 3-stars or guys who didn't have great offer lists. That just isn't the case.
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It's not like they've all been "bad", but they've been wildly inconsistent this season.

I would've called Darrell Taylor our "best defensive player" a few weeks ago. He looked like it versus Auburn. He totally disappeared in that SC game, though. Think he only recorded 1 tackle.

Bituli has probably been the one player that has been consistently good, but besides him, everyone has had highs and lows in that front 7.

Phillips and Alexis Johnson have both had their moments. DK Jr has played well at times and poorly at others. Same deal with Kongbo; looked great versus Auburn, but less so earlier in the season. Same deal with Ignont.

Is it fair to blame the players, though? Are the coaches putting them in bad spots? Are they getting gassed because of lack of depth? Against SC, I'm just not sure. Time of possession favored us. Albeit, getting pushed around for 4 quarters in the run game starts to take a toll. But why were we getting pushed around so much? And I do think the defensive coaches did a poor job adjusting, as well, so I don't want to put it all on the players.

Right now, I'm very optimistic about our offense in 2019 and more concerned about our defense. Doesn't feel like we should be playing this bad on D. And if it's this bad now, what happens when we lose our top 4 d-linemen to graduation in 2019?

Hoping this is just a slight bump in the road and coaches get things figured out over the next few weeks.
 
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#94
#94
G8R8U2 said:
It's always coaching; whether it's technique, strength, or conditioning, coaching is instruction. If the HC/DC fails, especially in games between similarly talented opponents, then he hasn't adequately taught them... "coached them up".

Defense is supposed to be Pruitt's forte; if guys are still making all these same mistakes 8 games into the season, maybe it's not the players whose performance should be judged.

On the defense...

“Defensively, got one turnover, gave up explosive plays. You can’t do that. You’ve got to make the other team earn it. It’s a shame that we continue to have some guys play well up front, then we just have guys that literally just turn people loose. It baffles me. I’ve got to do a better job coaching them up.”
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Coaches don't get on the field. Have you actually played Football? You're taught technique at 11 years old they are just not getting it done.
 
#96
#96
VolSummitt44 said:
Yeah because I use my eyes and understand that you can make a play without making a tackle.
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So you're like the old men in Moneyball clinging to their eyes and instincts over facts and numbers, lol. The totality of all those plays, tackles or not, eventually end up in the stats. We are only a tick better than last year. That isn't good.
 
#97
#97
Devo182 said:
The totality of all those plays, tackles or not, eventually end up in the stats. We are only a tick better than last year. That isn't good.
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I never said our defense was good. I said I didn't think our linebackers played bad all year.
 
#98
#98
Devo182 said:
So you're like the old men in Moneyball clinging to their eyes and instincts over facts and numbers, lol. The totality of all those plays, tackles or not, eventually end up in the stats. We are only a tick better than last year. That isn't good.
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Think more along the lines of trouble with the curve.
 
#99
#99
Eastknox865 said:
Coaches don't get on the field. Have you actually played Football? You're taught technique at 11 years old they are just not getting it done.
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Strange, every other program's coaches are still teaching technique right up to draft day; and I suspect your is too.

I'm just using the coach's own words in his own self-assessment... “I’ve got to do a better job coaching them up.” .

So if the players ain't "getting it done", then it's his job to figure out why they still aren't... that's what a hc does, solve problems.
 
#100
#100
malinoisvol said:
1. Discipline
Time and again, our pass defenders leave their receivers to go after a QB when he leaves the pocket. Many time this has led to chunk plays.

2. Depth

3. S.S.S.S
Size
Speed
Strength
Stamina

JMHO
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Ditto....better said than me....we have hit the end of the season after going through an horrific gauntlet. Playing a team that had an off week to expose weaknesses.
 
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