Why is Butch Jones (still) hated so much?

[BigOrangeMojo]

I was talking to a friend earlier this week:

How many other historical top 25-caliber teams have had this many former coaches not land another significant head coaching job? That seems a reasonable metric for your hiring decisions.

Kiffin was a fluke, leaving after 1 season for a "dream job."

Other than him, Majors went back to Pitt, but nobody else has held a significant HFC role since the 80s.

That's terrible.

How many Top 10-12 all time programs have hired a guy with no P5 Head coaching experience, fire him within 3 years, have that guy never get another HC gig anywhere else

And then do it again 5 years later...

 

[stolitonic]

They were 2-8. They had a grad assistant at QB. They lost to Jeremy Pruitt. It was a really bad team.

In terms of your record saying what you are or whatever the Bill Parcells line was-I fully agree.

Just saying peel back a couple of layers on the onion and the picture looks a bit different.

They win their games against us and UF (both were roughly one score losses) and they are in the back end of their schedule with a 4-2 record with wins over 2 top 15 teams and a top 5 team.

I doubt Muschump gets fired at that point with a 4-2 record

Like I said the team kinda fell apart after Mike Bobo was named interim coach and they got shellacked every game. 3 of the 4 games with Bobo "should" have been winnable on paper-Ole Miss (Lanes first year there), KY, and Mizzou.

I was dating a Gamecock alum girly at that time so I had to watch WAY more South Carolina football than I really wanted to ha ha. Covid made us all so crazy things I suppose lol.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

1. People hated the hire to begin with, so hating on him now gives them validation.

2. He squandered a load of talent, made terrible in-game coaching decisions, he made terrible player personnel decisions, and had some really stupid slogans.

3. He took the massive payout and, instead of getting a real job, he took a low paying job and drained every penny he could from UT. . . at Alabama - then blew cigar smoke in all our faces after their win.

4. He's an easy person to pick on in general.

5. He lost to Vanderbilt and missed a huge bowl game because of it.

6. Barb's Chip Dip

7. A combination of all those things.

Any of those things would bring hate his way. Add them all together and you have someone who is pretty much universally disliked.

Dont forget completely blowing the Oklahoma game while kicking a field goal at the 1 yardline!

 

[BigOrangeFanatic]

He was a con man trumpet boy. Worried more about which song we were gonna play on third down than trying to win football games. Not to mention blowing 2 seasons in 15 and 16 with playoff talent rosters. Beat UGA and UF in the same season and still couldn't win the East. He was pathetic.

 

[GAVol]

It was pretty obvious early on that Butch was just a guy with a big ego trying to play the role of a CEO. The job was way too big for him. The coachspeak and cliches were telltale signs of an empty suit.

 

[hUTch2002]

For me, it’s mainly because of his arrogance and hard headedness. He had every opportunity to be successful here but was too much of a control freak. His general attitude toward even the slightest bit of criticism was nauseating. His responses to fans and the media with “let me educate you” type remarks got old fast. I can’t remember where I heard it, but someone said that Butch always thought he was the smartest guy in the room when most of the time he was the dumbest.

It’s hard to keep all these bad hires straight but wasn’t Butch the one who ran read option an entire year with a QB who never kept the ball? That decision, the play calling in goal to go against Florida that one year and the D line playing 2 feet off against GT were some of the dumbest coaching moves I’ve ever seen and I believe they were all Butch.

 

[CNeagleVolFan]

I remember seeing pictures of his office, and one thing that stuck out to me was just how many pictures of himself he had hanging on the walls. I think a lot of people dislike Butch because he was a guy with a huge ego, he was a sleaze ball, he was a used care salesman, and overall he just wasn’t that nice of a dude.

 

[Delmar]

It’s hard to keep all these bad hires straight but wasn’t Butch the one who ran read option an entire year with a QB who never kept the ball? That decision, the play calling in goal to go against Florida that one year and the D line playing 2 feet off against GT were some of the dumbest coaching moves I’ve ever seen and I believe they were all Butch.

I may be getting it confused since I’ve tried to forget those 15 years in the wilderness so somebody correct me if I’m wrong. Wasn’t Botch the one that tried to play an SEC schedule with a light and “mobile” offensive line? If I remember right, we had the least number of 300 pounders of anyone in the league. That struck me as a problem at the time but again my memory may be failing me.

 

[hUTch2002]

I may be getting it confused since I’ve tried to forget those 15 years in the wilderness so somebody correct me if I’m wrong. Wasn’t Botch the one that tried to play an SEC schedule with a light and “mobile” offensive line? If I remember right, we had the least number of 300 pounders of anyone in the league. That struck me as a problem at the time but again my memory may be failing me.

You’re spot on. He had so many dumb decisions it’s hard to remember them all.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

I remember when he wouldn't put the QB under center when they were at the goal line and his excuse was the QB had not taken any snaps under center in practice. They had to settle for FG's several times because the spread O was not effective at the goal line. Just no printable words here for some of his actions.

 

[VOLnMiami]

Probably because of all of his stupid sayings and then being photographed smoking cigars with a bunch of butt picking Bammers

That photo of him celebrating that win over the team that he recruited made me sick..Screw that POS.

 

[VOLnMiami]

In hindsight, I like all of them. Without them, we wouldn't have gotten to where we are today.

Without them maybe we don't go through the darkest era in Tennessee football history...I hated the way We would just hire some blowhard who had very little head coaching experince to run our historical program...Kiffin was fibne in my book even tho he left us high and dry, Dooley was a joke and Jones was nothing more than a snake oil salesman who had crappy quotes that everybody made fun of..I wish we could play him just once to run up around 80 on his ass, Pruitt was complete joke who I blame Fulmer for 100%...He was over his head and was always a Bammer at heart...Terrible hires

 

[VolFan_stuck_in_the_901]

Without them maybe we don't go through the darkest era in Tennessee football history...I hated the way We would just hire some blowhard who had very little head coaching experince to run our historical program...Kiffin was fibne in my book even tho he left us high and dry, Dooley was a joke and Jones was nothing more than a snake oil salesman who had crappy quotes that everybody made fun of..I wish we could play him just once to run up around 80 on his ass, Pruitt was complete joke who I blame Fulmer for 100%...He was over his head and was always a Bammer at heart...Terrible hires

The one thing that entire 15-year "Dark Age" has in common is weak/ineffectual leadership in both the Athletic Department and the University from the president on down

 

[VolFan_stuck_in_the_901]

Think about it: football was not the only sport that experienced turbulence/dysfunction during that time. Basketball was mediocre-bad for 5-6 years before Rick Barnes broke through, baseball went through the absolute wilderness before Vitello.... even the Lady Vols took a step back from their dominance as Pat had to step down due to her health issues. Obviously football gets all the publicity due to being the chief money maker and the engine that drives the train, but all of the major revenue sports struggling is symptomatic of an Athletic Department that was in turmoil.

 

[sjt18]

Lord I wish we could have found a way to fire him with cause. A loser person and a loser coach who couldn’t even win the east when it was handed to him and created the most toxic locker room this team has ever had. I dislike the other failed coaches we’ve had over the years but Lyle is such a narcissistic person it’s honestly revolting. If you have ever dealt with a narcissist you know what I mean. His outright refusal to take accountability for anything was just pathetic.

No one threw players under the bus like Jones. You're right. Even when he would say things like, "It starts with me... he would qualify it to mean that the players were at fault".

I didn't even get to the fact that he wasn't a very good coach on top of all the leadership issues. He came in pretty much claiming that he was going to change the way football was played in the SEC. He was a buffoon.

 

[sjt18]

I was talking to a friend earlier this week:

How many other historical top 25-caliber teams have had this many former coaches not land another significant head coaching job? That seems a reasonable metric for your hiring decisions.

Kiffin was a fluke, leaving after 1 season for a "dream job."

Other than him, Majors went back to Pitt, but nobody else has held a significant HFC role since the 80s.

That's terrible.

You're right. Fulmer probably could have gotten a job. The rest just got exposed by their time at UT.

Looking back, I think not hiring Cut was the stupidest decision of that walk in the valley.

 

[LowKey]

It was pretty obvious early on that Butch was just a guy with a big ego trying to play the role of a CEO. The job was way too big for him. The coachspeak and cliches were telltale signs of an empty suit.

But he recruited 5 star hearts. He was a champion of life.

 

[Volfan76]

Seems that many threads turn into eith a Jones or Kiffin bashing thread. Don’t get me wrong; I hate CLK came in and ran half the team off and had virtually none of his recruiting class pan out and, Jones never could get over the hill. But, there seems to be more hatred towards Jones on VN threads than any of the other coaches and this includes Pruitt.

Is it because more was expected of him or that we didn’t really expect more from the other coaches? I mean, Pruitt could have completely devastated the program but yet he doesn’t seem the most disliked of our coaches. Jones was like forever and three coaches ago but, again, he’s beat down still and a lot.

I think it's a combination of things.
1. He was a poser and sucked at his job. His past success has always been on the coattails of other coaches. The little success he had here was mostly the result of Josh Dobbs, Juan Jennings, and a few position coaches.
2. He turned UT football into a laughing stock with all of his ridiculous quotes.
3. He would take the least little success(a decent recruiting class, most of who left) and immediately start lobbying for a raise/extension.
4. He took a job with saban for less than the average school teacher's wages so that he could intentionally milk every dime he could from the UT football program until his contract had expired.
5. cigars, blah blah, etc.

Pruitt was just incompetent....Pruitt's mess was more on Fulmer than it was Pruitt. You can't blame the dog for eating it's own vomit...that's just what they do. Blame the guy that brought home the dog. Pruitt genuinely thought he would be successful here and gave every effort to be that. He didn't intentionally hurt UT for his own gain. His incompetency hurt himself as much as the university.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Butch could have been successful here if he would have put his ego aside, hired some good coordinators to run his offense instead of handcuffing them.

His refusal to change and adapt was his biggest downfall.

Like someone said, he had the tools to be successful here but wasted it.

Smoking cigars in the Bama locker room after making yourself look good in front of your formal players was the final straw for me.

I have no use for him after that.

 

[whobethis16]

Without them maybe we don't go through the darkest era in Tennessee football history...I hated the way We would just hire some blowhard who had very little head coaching experince to run our historical program...Kiffin was fibne in my book even tho he left us high and dry, Dooley was a joke and Jones was nothing more than a snake oil salesman who had crappy quotes that everybody made fun of..I wish we could play him just once to run up around 80 on his ass, Pruitt was complete joke who I blame Fulmer for 100%...He was over his head and was always a Bammer at heart...Terrible hires

Wait, you hated hiring guys with little head coaching experience yet you're fine with the guy who had the absolute least amount of head coaching experience before getting here? Makes sense.

 

[VolInNW]

You're right. Fulmer probably could have gotten a job. The rest just got exposed by their time at UT.

Looking back, I think not hiring Cut was the stupidest decision of that walk in the valley.

Nope. No one will ever convince me that Fulmer went into complete retirement voluntarily. If he had left in 1999 or any time through 2002 or so, he likely would have found a job. But by the time he left, it seemed he was outdated, hard-headed, and incapable of managing a modern program. I don't recall that any major program came close to hiring him.

But, of course, WE bring him on as AD. The essence of Fulmer's odd view of things was contained in his quote from the news conference when his 'retirement' was announced along with Pruit's termination. When he commented that 'recruiting was strong' under his time as AD (or words to that effect) I knew he was utterly clueless.

In his prime, Fulmer could recruit VERY well, and until it became completely outdated he ran Walt Harris' offense scheme well. Other than that, IMHO he has Cutcliffe and Chavis to thank for the good runs during the 90s.

 

[sjt18]

Nope. No one will ever convince me that Fulmer went into complete retirement voluntarily. If he had left in 1999 or any time through 2002 or so, he likely would have found a job. But by the time he left, it seemed he was outdated, hard-headed, and incapable of managing a modern program. I don't recall that any major program came close to hiring him.

You could be right but I think even he claimed different. He just didn't seem to have the heart for it any more. You're right. He didn't like the way the game was changing and started being outclassed on the field and especially where his success was built- recruiting.

I have been very critical of Fulmer. So much so that it set people here off. I don't think he was a particularly great leader either. He just "lucked" into having Cut and Chavis to shore up his weaknesses. His numbers and record with and without Cutcliffe tell a pretty interesting story.

But, of course, WE bring him on as AD. The essence of Fulmer's odd view of things was contained in his quote from the news conference when his 'retirement' was announced along with Pruit's termination. When he commented that 'recruiting was strong' under his time as AD (or words to that effect) I knew he was utterly clueless.

In his prime, Fulmer could recruit VERY well, and until it became completely outdated he ran Walt Harris' offense scheme well. Other than that, IMHO he has Cutcliffe and Chavis to thank for the good runs during the 90s.

I'll admit that I thought Fulmer was more suited to be an AD than HFBC. I guess I didn't even remember my own criticisms. More than half of a leader's success is who they choose to be their subordinate leaders and then how they build in discipline and accountability. I think those things more than anything else tanked him both as a HC and AD.

My "theory" on Pruitt is that he believed a program should be run like Fulmer ran his... Fulmer still wanted to prove he was wrongly fired so he hired a guy he thought did things like he did.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

The one thing that entire 15-year "Dark Age" has in common is weak/ineffectual leadership in both the Athletic Department and the University from the president on down

That weak and ineffectual leadership made the terrible hires, but doesn't get nearly as much blame. Fulmer getting routinely chopped for Pruitt (though I understand the agenda there) being the only outlier.

 

[Mccage]

And there’s that one time at band camp!

 

[BigOrangeFanatic]

It’s hard to keep all these bad hires straight but wasn’t Butch the one who ran read option an entire year with a QB who never kept the ball? That decision, the play calling in goal to go against Florida that one year and the D line playing 2 feet off against GT were some of the dumbest coaching moves I’ve ever seen and I believe they were all Butch.

The read no option?