Why is Butch Jones (still) hated so much?

#151
#151
stolitonic said:
Honestly? I just disliked him from......maybe not the start, but pretty close to it anyway.

His cliches wore thin VERY quickly.

Backed into some very high end legacy/in state talent and squandered it all.

That 2017 season was pain personified man. We just never stood a chance. 2020 was bad, but not even in the same ballpark.

Sorry, I just can't give Lyle a pass for driving the bus straight into the ditch.
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The 2020 team at least won 3 SEC games... in a normal, non-COVID year that is a 3-5 record in conference with a 7-5 season overall; it's not good - it's incredibly mediocre to bad - but not the 2017 disaster
 
#152
#152
05_never_again said:
I thought a big part of that was because he never felt comfortable here, but he speaks the same way at Arkansas St.

I do think he was always uncomfortable here with the expectations and culture, but he's also just a strange guy.
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He wasn’t comfortable in his skin. It was like he was always waiting to be found out that he was not worthy of the job. He was gifted a window of some very talented players who were legacies and he was able to put together some decent seasons, but took a nosedive once that talent headed out. Being put on player’s shoulders following a Music City Bowl win over a mediocre Nebraska team was beyond pathetic .
 
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#154
#154
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#155
#155
VolFan_stuck_in_the_901 said:
The 2020 team at least won 3 SEC games... in a normal, non-COVID year that is a 3-5 record in conference with a 7-5 season overall; it's not good - it's incredibly mediocre to bad - but not the 2017 disaster
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2020 was weird man-in more ways than one.

We started off by beating Mizzu and SC teams that weren't half bad teams. Then we got absolutely smacked by Georgia and the season tanked.

I have always been torn on whether something happened behind the scenes early in that season. Perhaps the staff knew by mid Sept that an investigation was imminent or something and their jobs were at risk?

I'm not saying we were a great team in 2020 but we had some pieces. No excuse for losing to KY. Ever.
 
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#156
#156
It seems to me Jones is a narcissist who probably had not had an injury or at least a major injury until he was let go from here. Reason I say that is due to how he acted and what he did. A normal (type) person who was handed that much money in a buyout, most likely would not care about much. However, like a spurned high school girl, it’s almost like he can’t get over it.

Coaches get fired all of the time. Many D1 have gone to Sabans academy of reinvention. So, I could see that. However, the picture with Bama players smoking a cigar after they beat us, displays a very shallow person. It wasn’t like he even helped recruit any of them for one and two, they beat a team with mostly his players.

I have always felt he did that as a means of thumbing his nose at the Tennessee fan base. His comments blaming us for losing at Arkansas State shows that because the failure here is still in his head. His narcism would be Tennessee fans appreciative of what he accomplished (which is nothing) but instead he felt our disappointment.
 
#157
#157
RDU VOL#14 said:
He wasn’t comfortable in his skin. It was like he was always waiting to be found out that he was not worthy of the job. He was gifted a window of some very talented players who were legacies and he was able to put together some decent seasons, but took a nosedive once that talent headed out. Being put on player’s shoulders following a Music City Bowl win over a mediocre Nebraska team was beyond pathetic .
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They used to call that "Imposter Syndrome".... not sure if they still do
 
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#158
#158
#1fulmerite said:
It seems to me Jones is a narcissist who probably had not had an injury or at least a major injury until he was let go from here. Reason I say that is due to how he acted and what he did. A normal (type) person who was handed that much money in a buyout, most likely would not care about much. However, like a spurned high school girl, it’s almost like he can’t get over it.

Coaches get fired all of the time. Many D1 have gone to Sabans academy of reinvention. So, I could see that. However, the picture with Bama players smoking a cigar after they beat us, displays a very shallow person. It wasn’t like he even helped recruit any of them for one and two, they beat a team with mostly his players.

I have always felt he did that as a means of thumbing his nose at the Tennessee fan base. His comments blaming us for losing at Arkansas State shows that because the failure here is still in his head. His narcism would be Tennessee fans appreciative of what he accomplished (which is nothing) but instead he felt our disappointment.
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I must've missed that... where did he blame us for his losing at Arkansas State?
 
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#159
#159
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#160
#160
#1fulmerite said:
Seems that many threads turn into eith a Jones or Kiffin bashing thread. Don’t get me wrong; I hate CLK came in and ran half the team off and had virtually none of his recruiting class pan out and, Jones never could get over the hill. But, there seems to be more hatred towards Jones on VN threads than any of the other coaches and this includes Pruitt.

Is it because more was expected of him or that we didn’t really expect more from the other coaches? I mean, Pruitt could have completely devastated the program but yet he doesn’t seem the most disliked of our coaches. Jones was like forever and three coaches ago but, again, he’s beat down still and a lot.
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He was a fraud. Pruitt was stupid. Kiffin was a jerk. But neither really pretended to be something they weren't. Jones was just fake. He was a guy holding his breath trying to make a suit that was two sizes too big look like it fit.

I think there is also an element of unfulfilled promise. He sold the program well to start. But he was such a poor leader and manager of the team that the talent never gelled into a team. For me, that crystalized with Hurd. Jones mismanaged him. He made empty promises. IMO, he destroyed a bright future with Hurd and others simply by being a fraud as a leader.
 
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#161
#161
stolitonic said:
2020 was weird man-in more ways than one.

We started off by beating Mizzu and SC teams that weren't half bad teams. Then we got absolutely smacked by Georgia and the season tanked.

I have always been torn on whether something happened behind the scenes early in that season. Perhaps the staff knew by mid Sept that an investigation was imminent or something and their jobs were at risk?

I'm not saying we were a great team in 2020 but we had some pieces. No excuse for losing to KY. Ever.
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That South Carolina team went 2-8 and fired Muschamp. They were awful. Missouri was in their second game under Drinkwitz in a Covid offseason. They turned out half decent, and there’s no way Pruitt wins that if it’s game 8 instead of game 2. Vanderbilt was so bad they were playing women, probably the worst SEC team of all time.

Pruitt was worse than Butch and even Dooley. The reason Butch is more hated is because there was not an ounce of accountability in that weasel. Having to listen to that guy’s BS for 5 years was embarrassing. Pruitt and Dooley were not here as long and their public personas were not as grating.
 
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#162
#162
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
That South Carolina team went 2-8 and fired Muschamp. They were awful. Missouri was in their second game under Drinkwitz in a Covid offseason. They turned out half decent, and there’s no way Pruitt wins that if it’s game 8 instead of game 2. Vanderbilt was so bad they were playing women, probably the worst SEC team of all time.

Pruitt was worse than Butch and even Dooley. The reason Butch is more hated is because there was not an ounce of accountability in that weasel. Having to listen to that guy’s BS for 5 years was embarrassing. Pruitt and Dooley were not here as long and their public personas were not as grating.
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#163
#163
#1fulmerite said:
Seems that many threads turn into eith a Jones or Kiffin bashing thread. Don’t get me wrong; I hate CLK came in and ran half the team off and had virtually none of his recruiting class pan out and, Jones never could get over the hill. But, there seems to be more hatred towards Jones on VN threads than any of the other coaches and this includes Pruitt.

Is it because more was expected of him or that we didn’t really expect more from the other coaches? I mean, Pruitt could have completely devastated the program but yet he doesn’t seem the most disliked of our coaches. Jones was like forever and three coaches ago but, again, he’s beat down still and a lot.
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Is there a reason he shouldn't still be despised by TN fans? Him, Pruitt, and Dooley earned all the disrespect they get.
 
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#164
#164
Bc he was a petty SOB.

Butch joined the enemy on Tennessee’s dime and never really looked for other employment until he had milked every cent out of Tennessee he could. Also celebrated that Bama win over kids he recruited and coached at Tennessee. Just a bad look and defined the character of the guy.
 
#165
#165
Hamilton was a crappy AD. He hired Dooley. Everyone knew Dooley was a poor leader and a crappy coach. Other than Hammy, nobody in their right mind thought he could lead a SEC program. Shocker, he couldn't.

Fulmer was a crappy AD. He was the only person who thought Pruitt was intelligent enough to be head coach in the SEC. The ethical and toxic personality red flags were obvious. Shocker, he was too dumb and had a toxic personality.

Those two 2 ADs are shouldering some of the hatred for those two hires.

Butch had a favorable set up. UGA and Florida were in flux. Strong talent pipeline. And he continously F'ed up. It was never his fault. The team quitting on him. Not his fault. The injuries. Not his fault. Not going for 2. Not his fault. Lying to players. Not his fault. Barely playing Kamara. Not his fault. Team didnt meet expectations. Life champions. The trash can. The OU game. Not his fault. His highlight (DobbNail boot) only happened because of his epic F up..

He was despised because he was set up to succeed and he was too thin skinned and hard headed to actually do so...
 
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#169
#169
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
That South Carolina team went 2-8 and fired Muschamp. They were awful. Missouri was in their second game under Drinkwitz in a Covid offseason. They turned out half decent, and there’s no way Pruitt wins that if it’s game 8 instead of game 2. Vanderbilt was so bad they were playing women, probably the worst SEC team of all time.

Pruitt was worse than Butch and even Dooley. The reason Butch is more hated is because there was not an ounce of accountability in that weasel. Having to listen to that guy’s BS for 5 years was embarrassing. Pruitt and Dooley were not here as long and their public personas were not as grating.
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I would dig a little bit deeper into that SC team

They had a NASTY schedule early. Candy was the only game they were favored in

Played us when we were ranked 15 or so early, then played Florida who was in the top 5 and kept both games close.

Won a few games. They beat a decent Auburn team who was in the top 20.

They got blown out by LSU (the year after their last NC) and then the best team Jimbo ever had at A&M (they were the first team out of the playoffs that year)

Muschump got canned after those two blowout losses in early November (season started in really late September due to Covid). The team tanked after that and didn't win another game.

Were they a great team? Nope. Would I have taken that team over a few we put on the field in the midst of our dysfunction? Maybe.
 
#170
#170
For me, it’s mainly because of his arrogance and hard headedness. He had every opportunity to be successful here but was too much of a control freak. His general attitude toward even the slightest bit of criticism was nauseating. His responses to fans and the media with “let me educate you” type remarks got old fast. I can’t remember where I heard it, but someone said that Butch always thought he was the smartest guy in the room when most of the time he was the dumbest.
 
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#173
#173
stolitonic said:
I would dig a little bit deeper into that SC team

They had a NASTY schedule early. Candy was the only game they were favored in

Played us when we were ranked 15 or so early, then played Florida who was in the top 5 and kept both games close.

Won a few games. They beat a decent Auburn team who was in the top 20.

They got blown out by LSU (the year after their last NC) and then the best team Jimbo ever had at A&M (they were the first team out of the playoffs that year)

Muschump got canned after those two blowout losses in early November (season started in really late September due to Covid). The team tanked after that and didn't win another game.

Were they a great team? Nope. Would I have taken that team over a few we put on the field in the midst of our dysfunction? Maybe.
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They were 2-8. They had a grad assistant at QB. They lost to Jeremy Pruitt. It was a really bad team.
 
#174
#174
I was talking to a friend earlier this week:

How many other historical top 25-caliber teams have had this many former coaches not land another significant head coaching job? That seems a reasonable metric for your hiring decisions.

Kiffin was a fluke, leaving after 1 season for a "dream job."

Other than him, Majors went back to Pitt, but nobody else has held a significant HFC role since the 80s.

That's terrible.
 
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#175
#175
sjt18 said:
He was a fraud. Pruitt was stupid. Kiffin was a jerk. But neither really pretended to be something they weren't. Jones was just fake. He was a guy holding his breath trying to make a suit that was two sizes too big look like it fit.

I think there is also an element of unfulfilled promise. He sold the program well to start. But he was such a poor leader and manager of the team that the talent never gelled into a team. For me, that crystalized with Hurd. Jones mismanaged him. He made empty promises. IMO, he destroyed a bright future with Hurd and others simply by being a fraud as a leader.
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Lord I wish we could have found a way to fire him with cause. A loser person and a loser coach who couldn’t even win the east when it was handed to him and created the most toxic locker room this team has ever had. I dislike the other failed coaches we’ve had over the years but Lyle is such a narcissistic person it’s honestly revolting. If you have ever dealt with a narcissist you know what I mean. His outright refusal to take accountability for anything was just pathetic.
 
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