why can't we view Tennessee this way

[vol66]

Yep. CBB resume easily bests that of CBJ.

Plus, CBB didn't stick with "family," instead hiring a strong group of assistants including Randy Shannon (remember all the VN fantasizing for him before the Sunseri debacle?) and Sam Pittman.

AR lost close games to great opponents, and just had two very impressive shutouts -- expected year 2 progress with a strong coaching staff.

Again, I think this stuff with the comparison to Arky. has taken kind of a weird turn. I was simply trying to point out that those that seem to covet CBB's results at Arkansas should be looking at who Dave Hart ended up hiring and who Jeff Long ended up hiring.

I also tried to point out that what CBB inherited at Arky is better, over all, than what CBJ inherited here.

Finally, lol... I hope...let me just say this...As a guy who played and has coached on a lesser level...I will stack my 3* red shirt senior with 36 starts under his belt up against your 5* freshman and try to work that match up to the fullest, especially at any of the line positions.

That's exactly what Missouri did. That's what Chattanooga did.

I hope no matter where anyone stands on the issues tonight that you all have a great Thanksgiving tomorrow!

GBO!!!

 

[ptclaus98]

And what if he wins a championship in the next 2-3 years?

Then fantastic. What if he doesn't? I'm basing my opinion on what this staff has proven so far. They're fantastic recruiters and decent game planners, but in the heat of the moment they've failed many more times than they haven't. Adjustments, time management, using their parts in the best fashion have not been among this staffs strong suits. They don't have a sense of urgency, and sometimes seems to be winging it. They're better than the staff they replaced, but they're much closer to that than they are to Saban, Miles, or even Richt or Malzahn.

 

[thebjd]

That's easy to do when you have a decent OL. We would have at least 2 more wins with a decent OL. Can't make chicken salad out of chicken $€!t

The topic was why Arkansas is getting love from the press and we aren't. Your post is why. They are better than us at this moment.

 

[Vol Revolver]

I've seen a lot of praise for Arkansas today, even though they have 2 conference wins in the last 2 years. The talk is how being patient
is tthe key to getting a program to a powerhouse. The media is on board, the school, now the fans. We've gotten a little hype from the media, but nothing like Arkansas. I know they beat better teams, but my point is why can't we understand it takes time? Especially the shape Tennessee was in.

Believe it or not we were way behind Arkansas win the new coaches took over. Look at the previous coaches of each program the last 5 years.

 

[HARTUPM]

I think the point Butch keeps trying to make, and I keep mentioning with our alum group here when we watch games is, we'd like to be in a position where we don't have to play true Freshman, really at most any position, especially in the trenches. Anyone using Barnett as a rebuttal, come one. I love him. He's a fantastic talent with a great motor. You have a guy like that, and how can you not put him on the field? Well, if you have former 4 and 5* Jr/Sr DL'men, that's how. That's what Butch wants. He wants 18yo kids developing with off-season conditioning to get the bodies of SEC men during the season, while his team of RS Freshmen, Sophomores, Jrs, and Srs goes out and wins f'ing football games.

Take a look around the SEC. Take a look around the nation, any conference, any team, even mid-majors. No one is playing 23 Freshmen in the 2-deep. No one is starting 7 Freshmen in a game. UGa, UF, Bama, etc, they may have 1-2 standouts that are freakish enough to play/start/contribute as true Freshman because they are simply just too good to keep off the field, a la Eric Berry in '07 (do I have the year correct?). Other than that, you're not going to see many. Even Winston redshirted a year, and he was one of the most heralded recruits in the nation that year. That's called depth, and it takes program development to get to that point.

Arkansas had their crapshow a little further in their rearview mirror before Bielema arrived (the goofy guy who lost almost all his games was only one year, and didn't kick a bunch of players off the team a la Kiffin), so they didn't have attrition and depth issues that we did. People need to make like Aaron Rodgers and RELAX. What happened with the UT program is a bit of a special case. Not many teams had to endure waning talent leading up to '07, followed by 4 tumultuous bungled years of poor development and attrition to lead us to the point where we have to hang all our hopes this season largely on the performance of an entire Freshman class...all the while replacing all starters on both sides of the OL and DL (seriously, can anyone remember a team ever, any team ever, that that's happened to?? Seriously, maybe I'll even google it)!! We really have fought hard to even be in the spot we're in now. Next year will be twentysome more Freshman contributors, and more growing pains. '16 and '17 is where we will see the fruits of this timing-wise. We'll have upperclassmen out there who've been entrenched in this workman-like culture. And the new young studs, well they can redshirt and watch Barnett as a Jr go out and lay waste to opponent OL's while Sutton (if he's still around as a Sr) swats everything in sight like Darrelle Revis.

Can I get a hell yeah for that?

Cliff notes version?

 

[ptclaus98]

Cliff notes version?

The first couple of sentences in the third paragraph tell me all I need to know. CN: That dude thinks he knows, but he hasn't talked to a single Arkansas fan and does a poor job of using reason if he thinks the 2012-2013 Tennessee program was in worse shape than the 2012-2013 Arkansas program.

 

[ptclaus98]

Believe it or not we were way behind Arkansas win the new coaches took over. Look at the previous coaches of each program the last 5 years.

No we weren't. Just because we had a horrible head coach and they had a good one for most of those years doesn't mean we didn't have the better roster or the better facilities. The record is irrelevant. Tennessee recruited more talent than Arkansas in that time period. We had a year which saw basically every piece on offense have an NFL future, and there was even players on that defense, as bad as it was, who have or will end up in the NFL.

How many players has Arkansas sent to the league in that same time period?

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

The first couple of sentences in the third paragraph tell me all I need to know. CN: That dude thinks he knows, but he hasn't talked to a single Arkansas fan and does a poor job of using reason if he thinks the 2012-2013 Tennessee program was in worse shape than the 2012-2013 Arkansas program.

It actually was. Petrino did a good job of stacking offensive talent before he was canned. John L. Smith did a Dooley for the few months he was interim coach. So relatively speaking, Arkansas had a better foundation and better depth than us.

 

[ptclaus98]

The topic was why Arkansas is getting love from the press and we aren't. Your post is why. They are better than us at this moment.

They are better at us at this moment because the Bielema knows what a true championship culture is, and how to build up a true championship team, and what it takes to win championships. To win, anywhere, you run the ball and you stop the run. You do that and you can truly compete with anyone, even when the other team is on their game. We only have one half of that equation and not at all consistently. It doesn't take 5-star talent to be physical, and Arkansas proves that.


What Bret is doing at Arkansas is a great example of what the brick-by-brick shtick our staff likes to distract our fanbase with should be. He's not going out to get 5 star 6'4" WR's so that he can run bubble screens with them. He's not recruiting a big 6'3 230lb battering ram to run him side to side with a statue at QB. He may not get the best players, but he'll get the best fit for his team.

 

[ptclaus98]

It actually was. Petrino did a good job of stacking offensive talent before he was canned. John L. Smith did a Dooley for the few months he was interim coach. So relatively speaking, Arkansas had a better foundation and better depth than us.

stacking offensive talent? Petrino's star QB got drafted after 2012, pretty sure all his WRs were gone before Bielema got there, maybe the offensive line was in good condition, but ours was even better. The RB is still there but most of that offense is Bielema, and an overwhelming amount of the defense is Bielema.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

stacking offensive talent? Petrino's star QB got drafted after 2012, pretty sure all his WRs were gone before Bielema got there, maybe the offensive line was in good condition, but ours was even better. The RB is still there but most of that offense is Bielema, and an overwhelming amount of the defense is Bielema.

Depth man. Depth. Petrino got canned after signing day I think. He was able to recruit a full class. You're talking about starters and I'm talking about starters and depth. We were in worse shape than Arkansas.
CBJ built a championship team at both Cincinnati and CMU. They both won their respective divisions. CBB had B10 talent and CBJ had Big East talent.

 

[ptclaus98]

Depth man. Depth. Petrino got canned after signing day I think. He was able to recruit a full class. You're talking about starters and I'm talking about starters and depth. We were in worse shape than Arkansas.
CBJ built a championship team at both Cincinnati and CMU. They both won their respective divisions. CBB had B10 talent and CBJ had Big East talent.

He won 2 championships at CMU. Co championships where you don't beat the conference's BCS representative mean nothing. They had more players, but we had way more talent.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

He won 2 championships at CMU. Co championships where you don't beat the conference's BCS representative mean nothing. They had more players, but we had way more talent.

Well then CBB was co champion of B10 too, so don't count that one either. He had a whopping 8-6 record his final year. So yeah He is a modern day General Neyland. "More" talent is a joke. Especially if there is no depth behind that talent.

 

[87Vol]

How many SEC championships has Arkansas won in the past?

How many first rounders?

How many Nat'l titles within the past 20 years?

We are Tennessee, not Arkansas. Traditionally we have been the superior program. It sucks that now we are on their level, or as some suggest below them.

BINGO !!! We are Tennessee not Arkansas. Given our program's history, we have right to expect and demand far better results than Arkansas !!!

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

BINGO !!! We are Tennessee not Arkansas. Given our program's history, we have right to expect and demand far better results than Arkansas !!!

But skipping over the process to get back to the top or being impatient with the process is asanine.

 

[ptclaus98]

Well then CBB was co champion of B10 too, so don't count that one either. He had a whopping 8-6 record his final year. So yeah He is a modern day General Neyland. "More" talent is a joke. Especially if there is no depth behind that talent.

Two of his championship wins came with a big 10 championship game where he won the championship outright. He put 70 on a ranked Nebraska squad to win the last one

 

[vol66]

It would appear CBB and Arky didn't fare much better than CBJ and Tennessee versus Pinkel's Missouri squad.

 

[1972 Grad]

It would appear CBB and Arky didn't fare much better than CBJ and Tennessee versus Pinkel's Missouri squad.

It is true that Ark lost, but they played toe to toe with Missouri at Mizzou. We were outclassed and made the score closer than it really was, late in the game.

 

[joevol33]

It is true that Ark lost, but they played toe to toe with Missouri at Mizzou. We were outclassed and made the score closer than it really was, late in the game.

A team that's not lost a road game in 2 years though.

 

[1972 Grad]

A team that's not lost a road game in 2 years though.

True. I don't understand how they lost to Indiana.

 

[ManchesterV]

Yep. CBB resume easily bests that of CBJ.

Plus, CBB didn't stick with "family," instead hiring a strong group of assistants including Randy Shannon (remember all the VN fantasizing for him before the Sunseri debacle?) and Sam Pittman.

AR lost close games to great opponents, and just had two very impressive shutouts -- expected year 2 progress with a strong coaching staff.

Fulmers loyalty to his staff was his downfall. I hope Butch takes note of that. In this conference, there is no place for a "weak link" on the staff. I'm no expert and I'm not campaigning for anybody to be fired. That's Butch's job, but if there is a weak spot on the staff he needs to identify it and resolve it.

 

[1972 Grad]

Fulmers loyalty to his staff was his downfall. I hope Butch takes note of that. In this conference, there is no place for a "weak link" on the staff. I'm no expert and I'm not campaigning for anybody to be fired. That's Butch's job, but if there is a weak spot on the staff he needs to identify it and resolve it.

My guess is that Mahoney wouldn't have lasted the last 8 years with Butch, if Butch didn't think that he could do a good job.

 

[vol66]

It is true that Ark lost, but they played toe to toe with Missouri at Mizzou. We were outclassed and made the score closer than it really was, late in the game.

I think it was pretty obvious that Arky has a better O-line than we do...still Mizzou made that freshmen that went with Pittman look like any of our guys.

As somebody else said, they play better on the road than they do at home which is unusual. I watched both games, Arky is better than we are on both Offense and Defense, if you want to say it's players, if you want to say it's coaching, scheme, whatever...but they ain't MUCH better.

 

[1972 Grad]

Fulmers loyalty to his staff was his downfall. I hope Butch takes note of that. In this conference, there is no place for a "weak link" on the staff. I'm no expert and I'm not campaigning for anybody to be fired. That's Butch's job, but if there is a weak spot on the staff he needs to identify it and resolve it.

I have a different view of Fulmer. I don't believe that he ever demanded enough of himself, his staff, or his players. He was a good enough recruiter that he was able to field a consistent winner until the rest of the SEC brought in much better coaches, who could not only recruit, but they demanded perfection and hard work from all involved in the program.

 

[1972 Grad]

I think it was pretty obvious that Arky has a better O-line than we do...still Mizzou made that freshmen that went with Pittman look like any of our guys.

As somebody else said, they play better on the road than they do at home which is unusual. I watched both games, Arky is better than we are on both Offense and Defense, if you want to say it's players, if you want to say it's coaching, scheme, whatever...but they ain't MUCH better.

I can't disagree with that.