why can't we view Tennessee this way

#51
#51
chatt-townVOL said:
We were getting love from all over the place after SC and KY. All kinds of SEC East favorite talk next year and Dobbs Heisman talk. We were favored over a ranked team and we were the new media darlings, at least in the SEC.

We had every chance to keep that going and blew it. Had we won, Arky and UT would be getting the same exposure right now.
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Everytime butch Jones has been center stage he has failed n every sunshine sheep defends him..

He is our coach for two more yrs min if he makes a bowl but to blindly follow anyone is beyond me.

This staff has sent up some red flags.n if people haven't noticed them they know nothing about high performing employees.

The question is can he learn n overcome them because at this point Im not convinced he will ever win a championship
 
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#52
#52
92volalum said:
Everytime butch Jones has been center stage he has failed n every sunshine sheep defends him..

He is our coach for two more yrs min if he makes a bowl but to blindly follow anyone is beyond me.

This staff has sent up some red flags.n if people haven't noticed them they know nothing about high performing employees.

The question is can he learn n overcome them because at this point Im not convinced he will ever win a championship
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Bama's ready when you are. I'm sure there's room left on that wagon.
 
#53
#53
92volalum said:
Everytime butch Jones has been center stage he has failed n every sunshine sheep defends him..

He is our coach for two more yrs min if he makes a bowl but to blindly follow anyone is beyond me.

This staff has sent up some red flags.n if people haven't noticed them they know nothing about high performing employees.

The question is can he learn n overcome them because at this point Im not convinced he will ever win a championship
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You are going to get blasted by some on here, but yes, there are some concerns. The biggest concern is the OL. It's not about improving, it's about sustaining. We will always improve, but facts are, we haven't signed any elite OT prospects under Mahoney. We have to kill OT recruiting in 2016. We need to sign 2-3 elite freshman OT, we already have one signed, and possible an elite JuCo OT in 2016. Signing Pat Allen this year would go a long ways too. If we can get an elite OL, then our offense will be fine. CBJ's offense is very hard to pick up on if you are a WR/TE. They run very precise routes, and all plays deep are usually set up through play action. It's hard to run play action when you can't run the ball consistently.
 
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#54
#54
IndianapolisVol said:
How many SEC championships has Arkansas won in the past?

How many first rounders?

How many Nat'l titles within the past 20 years?

We are Tennessee, not Arkansas. Traditionally we have been the superior program. It sucks that now we are on their level, or as some suggest below them.
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I would rather be a sleeping giant, than to have the media reporting our every move.
Next season or in 2016, when we arrive, the nation will wonder where the heck we came from.....
 
#55
#55
keckjm said:
I agree, but Pittman did sign 3 of the 5 starters on their OL. Pittman is formulating an OL in Arkansas that's going to be good for years to come. Since he left here, Pittman has signed 5-6 OT prospects that are 6'6" or taller, we have signed 3, one of which is Coleman who is most likely our C for the future. That's a huge area of concern for our Vols IMHO.
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I think that is true only if you count Hunter Henry (soph), the TE who is a converted QB. Skipper and Kirkland (both sophs) are Pittman's recruits, but the other 3 starting OLs on the Ark depthchart are all upperclassmen so were on the roster prior to Beliema/Pittmn arriving.
 
#56
#56
I love this "Ark hired a 3-time Rose Bowl coach" nugget people keep tossing out. Hey guess what guys, Bert went to 3 Rose Bowls AND LOST ALL OF THEM.

Instead, we hired a coach that actually BEAT Franklin-coached Vandy and Cutcliffe-coached Duke in his last two bowl games.

And in before "but Jones didn't coach the Duke game" - spare me the complaints. That was his team and probably his gameplan. Stripling coached the game, but Jones' team won it.
 
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#57
#57
IndianapolisVol said:
How many SEC championships has Arkansas won in the past?

How many first rounders?

How many Nat'l titles within the past 20 years?

We are Tennessee, not Arkansas. Traditionally we have been the superior program. It sucks that now we are on their level, or as some suggest below them.
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None of those things have anything to do with the time it takes to rebuild! They have way more upperclassmen playing as well. I can get the fact that the expectations are higher cause of the past however, that does not change the fact of where we were and thee time it will take to get back!
 
#58
#58
NashVOL93 said:
I love this "Ark hired a 3-time Rose Bowl coach" nugget people keep tossing out. Hey guess what guys, Bert went to 3 Rose Bowls AND LOST ALL OF THEM.

Instead, we hired a coach that actually BEAT Franklin-coached Vandy and Cutcliffe-coached Duke in his last two bowl games.

And in before "but Jones didn't coach the Duke game" - spare me the complaints. That was his team and probably his gameplan. Stripling coached the game, but Jones' team won it.
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Really? You are going to compare Cincinatti versus Vanderbilt to #4 Wisconsin vs. #3 TCU (finished #2 in the final AP) or Cincinatti vs. Duke to #9 Wisconsin vs. #6 Oregon (finished #4 in the final AP)?

He lost by 2 points to TCU and Gary Patterson.

He lost by 7 points to Oregon and Chip Kelly.

He didn't coach the third Rose Bowl, he went to Arky, Alvarez coached the bowl game.

I love coach Cut and he's done an amazing job at Duke and Franklin did a great job at Vandy, but C'mooooon MAN! lol
 
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#59
#59
keckjm said:
I agree, but Pittman did sign 3 of the 5 starters on their OL. Pittman is formulating an OL in Arkansas that's going to be good for years to come. Since he left here, Pittman has signed 5-6 OT prospects that are 6'6" or taller, we have signed 3, one of which is Coleman who is most likely our C for the future. That's a huge area of concern for our Vols IMHO.
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Pittman also took former UT commit Dan Skipper with him. He recruited him at Tennessee and signed him at Arky
 
#60
#60
vol66 said:
Really? You are going to compare Cincinatti versus Vanderbilt to #4 Wisconsin vs. #3 TCU (finished #2 in the final AP) or Cincinatti vs. Duke to #9 Wisconsin vs. #6 Oregon (finished #4 in the final AP)?

He lost by 2 points to TCU and Gary Patterson.

He lost by 7 points to Oregon and Chip Kelly.

He didn't coach the third Rose Bowl, he went to Arky, Alvarez coached the bowl game.

I love coach Cut and he's done an amazing job at Duke and Franklin did a great job at Vandy, but C'mooooon MAN! lol
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See, this is how I feel trying to describe the obvious progress Tennessee has made under Jones even in close losses to people who are absolutists about the W-L record. I'm really not trying to say Bert is a bad coach, but I am trying to say that Jones' past success has been severely underrated by a portion of our fanbase.

We hired a good coach. So did Arky. The progress of a program can't always be purely reflected in the record...when's the last time we were two touchdowns worth of points from winning the East?
 
#61
#61
NashVOL93 said:
See, this is how I feel trying to describe the obvious progress Tennessee has made under Jones even in close losses to people who are absolutists about the W-L record. I'm really not trying to say Bert is a bad coach, but I am trying to say that Jones' past success has been severely underrated by a portion of our fanbase.

We hired a good coach. So did Arky. The progress of a program can't always be purely reflected in the record...when's the last time we were two touchdowns worth of points from winning the East?
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We're on the same page. This Arky comparison thing has sort of taken a turn from the actual conversation last night.

I think Arky got a more proven Power 5 type coach, but again, it's the difference between a guy like Long as AD and Hart. He targeted the guy he wanted and got him and at the time my recollection is that it was a complete surprise to the football world.

So, for those that say "8 wins or else next year" how much faith do those folks have in Hart being able to do better than Jones...I have zero?

I have much more faith that Jones isn't going to torpedo the program if given 4, 5 years, maybe at that point the program, the roster, might be more attractive should it become necessary to move on.

I know this, we fire this guy after 3 years, no coach worth a grain of salt would take the job.
 
#63
#63
Crazy Ivan said:
I think that is true only if you count Hunter Henry (soph), the TE who is a converted QB. Skipper and Kirkland (both sophs) are Pittman's recruits, but the other 3 starting OLs on the Ark depthchart are all upperclassmen so were on the roster prior to Beliema/Pittmn arriving.
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Look more closely. One of those upperclassman is a transfer whom Pittman signed last year. Think he's a guard.
 
#64
#64
ajvol01 said:
Pittman also took former UT commit Dan Skipper with him. He recruited him at Tennessee and signed him at Arky
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Yeap. He tried to get Kendrick too. A lot of people said Dan was to tall to play LT... Guess that's been proven wrong.

My biggest concern going forward is the lack of big LT prospects we are signing. I hate to keep repeating myself over and over, but I can't stress enough how bad we need some big OT recruits. Mahoney has to obtain some, or we need to find someone who can. I believe I saw online where the average LT in the NFL is 6'7" or 6'8". We are playing 6'4" guards there, and people wonder why our OL is so bad. We play the best of the best in the SEC, and we need some big OT to help in the pass game.
 
#65
#65
IndianapolisVol said:
How many SEC championships has Arkansas won in the past?

How many first rounders?

How many Nat'l titles within the past 20 years?

We are Tennessee, not Arkansas. Traditionally we have been the superior program. It sucks that now we are on their level, or as some suggest below them.
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this is so stupid. None of that matters. All of that is the past. Those players don't play here anymore. Just because it was like that doesn't mean we get a free pass and are suppose to be superior. Games still have to be played and won on the field...trophies on a shelf don't win games..
 
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#66
#66
I believe we would beat lsu, and the ole miss team Arkansas played last week is a completely different team than when we played them.
 
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#67
#67
joevol33 said:
I've seen a lot of praise for Arkansas today, even though they have 2 conference wins in the last 2 years. The talk is how being patient
is tthe key to getting a program to a powerhouse. The media is on board, the school, now the fans. We've gotten a little hype from the media, but nothing like Arkansas. I know they beat better teams, but my point is why can't we understand it takes time? Especially the shape Tennessee was in.
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There is patience because their roster was legitimately depleted, the head coach they hired is a legitimate championship winner, they play to their strengths for the most part, and they play a championship brand of football.


Those are four things off the top of my head that they've done and we haven't. Also they've been in the West at the best it's ever been. We've been in the East at the worst it's ever been.
 
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#68
#68
brando1083 said:
this is so stupid. None of that matters. All of that is the past. Those players don't play here anymore. Just because it was like that doesn't mean we get a free pass and are suppose to be superior. Games still have to be played and won on the field...trophies on a shelf don't win games..
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The quicker some of you learn this, the better. Some of you think that an orange pair of pants and 3 million dollars will turn a horrible coach into a championship caliber coach.
 
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#72
#72
I think Arkansas is a good improved team. Yes they beat LSU the week after their Alabama loss, and an Ole Miss team with top receiver out and quarterback on bad ankle. Not same team UT played.
 
#73
#73
vol66 said:
They have one freshmen in the starting line up. The punt returner.

The better question would be which administration hired a coach with two Rose Bowl appearances?
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Yep. CBB resume easily bests that of CBJ.

Plus, CBB didn't stick with "family," instead hiring a strong group of assistants including Randy Shannon (remember all the VN fantasizing for him before the Sunseri debacle?) and Sam Pittman.

AR lost close games to great opponents, and just had two very impressive shutouts -- expected year 2 progress with a strong coaching staff.
 
#74
#74
vol66 said:
We're on the same page. This Arky comparison thing has sort of taken a turn from the actual conversation last night.

I think Arky got a more proven Power 5 type coach, but again, it's the difference between a guy like Long as AD and Hart. He targeted the guy he wanted and got him and at the time my recollection is that it was a complete surprise to the football world.

So, for those that say "8 wins or else next year" how much faith do those folks have in Hart being able to do better than Jones...I have zero?

I have much more faith that Jones isn't going to torpedo the program if given 4, 5 years, maybe at that point the program, the roster, might be more attractive should it become necessary to move on.

I know this, we fire this guy after 3 years, no coach worth a grain of salt would take the job.
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True, and I think more than a few of us think likewise, Vol66. There are so many variables considering UT's atrocious dearth of talent in the OL and anemic depth overall being a pregnant minus, rivaled by one of the most promising groups of first year players and RS's gaining high octane experience en masse as a sizable plus, it's going to be seriously interesting after a couple more years. I think we'll get the those Goliath DT's or else CBJ will find an OL coach who will ultimately get some on the roster. Right on, too, regarding the fallacy of firing CBJ within anytime soon then expecting any sort of high-end coach(es) to consider working in Knoxville. If CBJ and the staff of his choice remain here for awhile, then UT will earn its way back to prominence. It's not an entitled legacy, as many dream it is. As for Arky: Wouldn't it be a hoot if Mizzou lands a W against the hogs and then wins out in Atlanta? That's not entirely impossible as Mizzou seems to come out better than advertised. GBO!
 
#75
#75
ptclaus98 said:
The quicker some of you learn this, the better. Some of you think that an orange pair of pants and 3 million dollars will turn a horrible coach into a championship caliber coach.
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And what if he wins a championship in the next 2-3 years?
 
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