Where did life begin? (Merged)

Do you believe we have a creator, aka "God"?

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#901
#901
rjd970 said:
And another thing....The paradoxes are problematic. Not sure why you think I propose otherwise? None of that changes the fact that the physics allow for their possibility within the framework of the theories.
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That came from the fact that the most respected scientists have shied away from your interpretation of the "mathematical possibilities" due to the existence of the paradoxes. You proposed that we can't trust cause/effect because of the paradoxes that would be caused by the possibilities allowed by the mathematics. I quoted where the physicists are uncomfortable with your "possibilities" because of their faith in the laws of cause and effect. There is a big difference.
 
#903
#903
Back to the OP's original post..we are just mutated monkey-fish-frogs.

Got gill like features (pharyngeal pouches) as a fetus, live in embryonic fluid, and have a coccyx which is the remnants of a lost tail. Monkey-fish-frog
 
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#904
#904
rjd970 said:
Theoretically you can also travel back in time, and reaching a singularity or c isn't required. If we can technically time travel and I can theoretically arrive at a place before I leave, I would really like to hear your explanation on the implications of cause/effect.
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rjd970 said:
And another thing....The paradoxes are problematic. Not sure why you think I propose otherwise? None of that changes the fact that the physics allow for their possibility within the framework of the theories.
Click to expand...

So, theoretical physicists have seen the paradoxes, compared them to cause/effect, and doubted the validity of time travel. You saw the possibility of time travel, compared that possibility to cause/effect, and used it to doubt the validity of cause/effect.

You don't see the point I was making? Really?
 
#905
#905
rjd970 said:
Space and Time are one in the same. Einstein was clear about that. That we know.

It does open a big can of worms on things like fate and if we really have free will or it all just is. The idea of multiple universes (the decision of me staying at my desk or getting up to get a drink would be two different parallel universes) is interesting. But in a nutshell, I think cause and effect on a time scale is not what it seems.
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Again... The physicists saw a possibility, compared it to cause/effect and said, "Hey, wait a minute... Those implications are just too much."

You saw a possibility and said, "But in a nutshell, I think cause and effect on a time scale is not what it seems."

Yah. You said that. I bolded it.
 
#906
#906
rjd970 said:
Are you assuming time is linear, and all effects have a cause?

...


Time works the same way and change is just an illusion to us. Everything just is. You don't bring future events into existence anymore than you brought Denver into existence, they are always there. You just get there by displacing yourself in time.

That is the physics answer of it. Straight from Einstein.
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So, to revisit... You said there is no actual "change". I pointed out that you threw cause/effect out the window. You answered, "Pretty much, yah."

You said all this was "straight from Einstein". Einstein was actually horrified by the idea and said, "Not in our universe".

I pressed the philosophical implications to cause/effect. You said basically, "Exactly." The physicists say, "That really makes me question the validity of this view of time."

I pointed out your underlying argument is all supposition anyway. You called me a religious guy that just attacks science.

That pretty much cover it?
 
#911
#911
Orange_Crush said:
So, to revisit... You said there is no actual "change". I pointed out that you threw cause/effect out the window. You answered, "Pretty much, yah."

You said all this was "straight from Einstein". Einstein was actually horrified by the idea and said, "Not in our universe".

I pressed the philosophical implications to cause/effect. You said basically, "Exactly." The physicists say, "That really makes me question the validity of this view of time."

I pointed out your underlying argument is all supposition anyway. You called me a religious guy that just attacks science.

That pretty much cover it?
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All I have said from the beginning is our reality (cause/effect, mass, energy, time, the whole nine) is a limited solution space. At the singularity things break down completely. As you approach that singularity the breakdown process starts and time no longer has any meaning the way we experience it. Go research what any of these scientists you think are on your side what happens as you approach the edge of a black hole (not even actually getting there). They will tell you cause/effect goes right out the window, along with everything else we experience, and it doesn't take actually stepping over the edge for it to happen.

Time dilation shows flat out time travel is not only possible, but that it happens, aside from your erroneous claims of re-sync or whatever you were talking about. Over a 6 month time period the astronauts on the ISS (traveling 7 m/s) age a fraction of a second lower than those on earth. So when they get back they are a fraction of a second into the future. Accelerate the ISS to 90% the speed of light and it becomes more dramatic. So time travel happens, and scientists must wrestle with the paradoxes instead of dismissing them outright.

Nothing I have said is inconsistent with any mainstream scientific theory. You are choosing to paint it as a picture of me half-cocked going off and making claims that aren't accepted.

Keep telling yourself that magician is actually making the coin disappear.
 
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#912
#912
rjd970 said:
All I have said from the beginning is our reality (cause/effect, mass, energy, time, the whole nine) is a limited solution space. At the singularity things break down completely. As you approach that singularity the breakdown process starts and time no longer has any meaning the way we experience it. Go research what any of these scientists you think are on your side what happens as you approach the edge of a black hole (not even actually getting there). They will tell you cause/effect goes right out the window, along with everything else we experience, and it doesn't take actually stepping over the edge for it to happen.

Time dilation shows flat out time travel is not only possible, but that it happens, aside from your erroneous claims of re-sync or whatever you were talking about. Over a 6 month time period the astronauts on the ISS (traveling 7 m/s) age a fraction of a second lower than those on earth. So when they get back they are a fraction of a second into the future. Accelerate the ISS to 90% the speed of light and it becomes more dramatic. So time travel happens, and scientists must wrestle with the paradoxes instead of dismissing them outright.

Nothing I have said is inconsistent with any mainstream scientific theory. You are choosing to paint it as a picture of me half-cocked going off and making claims that aren't accepted.

Keep telling yourself that magician is actually making the coin disappear.
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So, we are in agreement with my original statement. As we approach the singularity, physical laws break down, and by definition something supernatural happens. Hmmmm. Imagine that.

As for the rest of your recovery, I'll just quote you:

Time works the same way and change is just an illusion to us.
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Good evening. I will rest assured that if you are irritated right now, I couldn't have 'caused' it. You just always were. Change is just an illusion.

:hi:
 
#913
#913
Orange_Crush said:
So, we are in agreement with my original statement. As we approach the singularity, physical laws break down, and by definition something supernatural happens. Hmmmm. Imagine that.

As for the rest of your recovery, I'll just quote you:




Good evening. I will rest assured that if you are irritated right now, I couldn't have 'caused' it. You just always were. Change is just an illusion.

:hi:
Click to expand...

I would say as we approach the singularity laws of physics and paradoxes no longer apply and everything could fold back on itself.

Keep your fingers in your ears and eyes closed running around screaming "God exists! God exists".
 
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#914
#914
rjd970 said:
I would say as we approach the singularity laws of physics and paradoxes no longer apply and everything could fold back on itself.

Keep your fingers in your ears and eyes closed screaming running around screaming "God exists! God exists".
Click to expand...

nvm. I'll just let the conversation end with your wit. Good evening.
 
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#917
#917
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#920
#920
rjd970 said:
I would say as we approach the singularity laws of physics and paradoxes no longer apply and everything could fold back on itself.

Keep your fingers in your ears and eyes closed running around screaming "God exists! God exists".
Click to expand...

Keep trying to use your convoluted, yet rudimentary knowledge of science to claim that God doesn't exist. The fact we have physical laws that have to be obeyed proves God exists.
 
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#921
#921
FLVOL_79 said:
Back to the OP's original post..we are just mutated monkey-fish-frogs.

Got gill like features (pharyngeal pouches) as a fetus, live in embryonic fluid, and have a coccyx which is the remnants of a lost tail. Monkey-fish-frog
Click to expand...

OMOG, we are SLEESTAKS!!!!
 
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#925
#925
rjd970 said:
And so do the paradoxes you have been arguing over the last several pages. So why must there be an uncaused cause?
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That is actually a great question. I would recommend studying Aquinas' five ways if you are sincerely interested.

Otherwise, all this arguing over A-time vs. B-time is futile.
 
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