Where did life begin? (Merged)

[BigO95]

There’s no error in psalms.
And thanks for proving my point.

There are no errors in the whole KJV Bible!

 

[BigO95]

Again, you are starting with a presupposition and imposing your view in to the text.

Again I am telling you what plain English says.

 

[Roustabout]

"For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace" Eph. 2:14,15

Paul's apostleship.
"For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you; 3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets [c]in the Spirit;"

Mystery simply means secret. For emphasis, 'not made known.'
Prophecy = Made known
Mystery = Hidden

Was the apostleship of Paul, which conflicted with the 12 made known to the twelve? Was it prophesied in the OT?

Did Jesus commission Paul? If He did and he had the SAME message and stewardship as the 12 then it is truly a WTF moment of all time.

Jesus had several opportunities to reveal Paul in his earthly ministry. Instead, he told the 12, I have ONLY come for the lost sheep of Israel. And, go NOT the way of the Gentiles.

 

[Orangeslice13]

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost make up the one true God. 3 in 1. Surely you have heard the doctrine of the Trinity?
I personally know a Jew in West Virginia that was a traditional Jew that believes just like I do on the subject. 😁

Show me “G-d the Son” in scripture.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Referring to it as Paul's gospel is only to distinguish what Jesus (you know, Messiah) gave and commissioned to Paul as opposed to what he gave to the twelve (the gospel of the kingdom).

Did Jesus meet Paul on the road to Damascus?

Oh. And I'll take that to mean you have no scholarship on the subject.

I believe Paul.
I don’t believe everything that people added to his writings.

Not trying to convert you.
Do your own research
Decide for yourself

 

[Orangeslice13]

Can you point me toward some scholarship on this?

Also, in Rev. 1 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

Who is this referring to, Jesus or the Father?

1:6 gives context.
1:8 is about the Father

 

[Orangeslice13]

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Both present.

 

[Orangeslice13]

There are no errors in the whole KJV Bible!

Couldn’t disagree more

 

[Roustabout]

Again I am telling you what plain English says.

Well, for one the Bible wasn't written in English. Two, no where does it say that the lineages are a method for dating the earth. One has to beg to question to do so.

Neither is Genesis written to provide an science lesson. It was written in the context of heathen people to address paganism and polytheism that perverted the image of God.

Since days (24 hour ones) are determined by the earth's place in the solar system and its orbit and rotation around the sun, it seems a bit of a reach when one considers the sun, moon and stars don't appear until day 4.

Also amazing that for about 1800 years, young earth creationism wasnt even a thing within the church. It didn't arise until hyper fundy, isolated sects in western Christianity abandoned sound hermanuetics and embraced a twisted literalism and biblicism.

 

[Roustabout]

1:6 gives context.
1:8 is about the Father

And who is this describing?

Rev. 21
He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.

 

[Orangeslice13]

"For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace" Eph. 2:14,15

Paul's apostleship.
"For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you; 3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets [c]in the Spirit;"

Mystery simply means secret. For emphasis, 'not made known.'
Prophecy = Made known
Mystery = Hidden

Was the apostleship of Paul, which conflicted with the 12 made known to the twelve? Was it prophesied in the OT?

Did Jesus commission Paul? If He did and he had the SAME message and stewardship as the 12 then it is truly a WTF moment of all time.

Jesus had several opportunities to reveal Paul in his earthly ministry. Instead, he told the 12, I have ONLY come for the lost sheep of Israel. And, go NOT the way of the Gentiles.

If Paul disagrees with Messiah then I say he’s opposed to G-d and anyone opposed to G-d should be cursed. Fortunately im not the judge of Paul. I am however the judge for myself of what has been added to his writings.


People want to push Paul to a message that is against Messiah but it just isn’t true.

The Bereans believe Paul and they do so because of Torah not by anything written in the New Testament.
They didn’t have a New Testament. They were comparing the New Testament as it was written to Torah.


In Acts
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

 

[Orangeslice13]

And who is this describing?

Rev. 21
He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.

Who sits on “the throne”? G-d
It’s about G-d again.
Rev 20 wraps up the end of all things.

And what happens after the end of all things when death the last enemy is put under the feet of Messiah?

1 cor 15:

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Verse 28
When all things are done Messiah is subject to G-d so G-d may be all in all


They’re separate beings.

 

[Orangeslice13]

That’s good stuff Roust.
I’m working so I’ve got to bow out for a bit but keep it coming, Achi

 

[Orangeslice13]

And so everyone knows I don’t give the title “Achi” lightly.

 

[Roustabout]

If Paul disagrees with Messiah then I say he’s opposed to G-d and anyone opposed to G-d should be cursed. Fortunately im not the judge of Paul. I am however the judge for myself of what has been added to his writings.


People want to push Paul to a message that is against Messiah but it just isn’t true.

The Bereans believe Paul and they do so because of Torah not by anything written in the New Testament.
They didn’t have a New Testament. They were comparing the New Testament as it was written to Torah.


In Acts
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

How does he disagree, when Jesus revealed this to him? It was hidden, a mystery, a secret. Planned from before the world began. Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles. You are Gentile, regardless of what you claim.

 

[Roustabout]

Who sits on “the throne”? G-d
It’s about G-d again.
Rev 20 wraps up the end of all things.

And what happens after the end of all things when death the last enemy is put under the feet of Messiah?

1 cor 15:

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Verse 28
When all things are done Messiah is subject to G-d so G-d may be all in all


They’re separate beings.

And in 22?
Who is the Alpha and Omega?
“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

 

[Roustabout]

I believe Paul.
I don’t believe everything that people added to his writings.

Not trying to convert you.
Do your own research
Decide for yourself

I'd say I've researched it pretty well. As I have the Hebrew roots movement.

What specifically has been added to the text?

 

[Orangeslice13]

How does he disagree, when Jesus revealed this to him? It was hidden, a mystery, a secret. Planned from before the world began. Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles. You are Gentile, regardless of what you claim.

My great grandfather on my fathers side sold everything and came here to avoid the Nazi persecution. He changed his name to smith. Members of my family still practice strict Judaism. But ok. I’ll concede being a mud blooded Jew by adoption. It changes nothing.

What tree are you grafted into?

 

[BigO95]

Show me “G-d the Son” in scripture.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Colossians 1:14-21 (KJV)
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

That was easy :hi:

 

[BigO95]

Couldn’t disagree more

So are you fluent in the Greek and Hebrew language?

 

[Roustabout]

Isaiah 44:6
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12

"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

So, we have several refernces where the term first and last refers to God the Father. Alpha and Omega, first and last is a redundant qualifier to distinguish God. We have this same phrasing in Revelation in chapter 1,21 and finally in verse 22.

In verse 22:12-15 we have God speaking in the 1st person.
".......I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."

In verse 16, the speaker (the one who just identified himself as the first and the last) says, “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

 

[BigO95]

Well, for one the Bible wasn't written in English. Two, no where does it say that the lineages are a method for dating the earth. One has to beg to question to do so.

Neither is Genesis written to provide an science lesson. It was written in the context of heathen people to address paganism and polytheism that perverted the image of God.

Since days (24 hour ones) are determined by the earth's place in the solar system and its orbit and rotation around the sun, it seems a bit of a reach when one considers the sun, moon and stars don't appear until day 4.

Also amazing that for about 1800 years, young earth creationism wasnt even a thing within the church. It didn't arise until hyper fundy, isolated sects in western Christianity abandoned sound hermanuetics and embraced a twisted literalism and biblicism.

1st off that has nothing to do with the subject since I have an English Bible now that has been translated from copies of the originals.
2nd It doesn't have to directly reference it for the information to be there.
3rd Genesis was written to give the creation account because it does.
4th off God can do it in any order he wants seeing he is God.
5th off The absurdity of Darwin's evolution wasn't around to dispute before the 1859's.
6th you should retake your hermeneutics class because obviously you missed something.
and thanks for the new nickname, "Hyper Fundy" :hi:

 

[BigO95]

Couldn’t disagree more

That's ok, you can be wrong if you want to!

 

[Roustabout]

1st off that has nothing to do with the subject since I have an English Bible now that has been translated from copies of the originals.
2nd It doesn't have to directly reference it for the information to be there.
3rd Genesis was written to give the creation account because it does.
4th off God can do it in any order he wants seeing he is God.
5th off The absurdity of evolution wasn't around to dispute before the 1859's.
6th you should retake your hermeneutics class because obviously you missed something.

This isn't a discussion on evolution. It is a discussion about how one handles the text.

Hermeneutics? Have you ever prepared a sermon or homily. I've studied specifically in preparing expository sermons. That being, one starts with the text and let's it shape the sermon. As opposed to starting with a subject (say the age of the earth) and trying to proof scripture into the sermon.

 

[Orangeslice13]

And in 22?
Who is the Alpha and Omega?
“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

G-d is speaking in continuation of 21.

Vs 16 Yeshua starts speaking and identifies Himself so that there’s no confusion as to who is speaking