Where did life begin? (Merged)

[Orangeslice13]

G vs g is a real problem throughout the entire English versions actually

 

[BigO95]

Your presupposing a timeline and imposing your view on it.

We have Bible on the age of Adam and you can trace through the geneologies to known points of history. Therefore you can at the least go back to day six and it just so happens that we know from scripture how much time before that. 5 days! 😁

 

[BigO95]

G vs g is a real problem throughout the entire English versions actually

Are you fluent in the Greek and Hebrew languages?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Are you fluent in the Greek and Hebrew languages?

That’s English.

 

[Orangeslice13]

BigO.
Do you believe there are other gods?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Did you know the word god in English is used to translate multiple different words. Often that word is used to mean things other than the most high.

 

[BigO95]

BigO.
Do you believe there are other gods?

False God's, Idols if you will. Devil's behind all of them is the reason why some other religions have experienced certain phenomenal things. Many are just dumb statues made of mans hands. No doubt inspired by devil's.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Kings are often called god. Satan is the god of this world.
We are told to have no other gods before the Most High in the ten suggestions

Psalms 86 useses it.


8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.

 

[BigO95]

That’s English.

I am not sure if I am following what you are saying.

 

[BigO95]

Kings are often called god. Satan is the god of this world.
We are told to have no other gods before the Most High in the ten suggestions

Psalms 86 useses it.


8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.

English is a complicated language.

 

[BigO95]

Context usually clears up most cases of confusion though.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Context usually clears up most cases of confusion though.

Does it.
From a Jewish perspective on the word god. Where it can mean a king, angles, Divinity like Messiah/ angle of the Lord or G-d/YHWH.

If the translators chose a G instead of g it changes your understanding


For example

24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a man, claim to be god.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father

the Jews gathered around ask if He’s the Messiah
He gives an answer
They pick up rocks
Messiah asks why
They say you claim to be Messiah/ a god
Messiah answers their claim in the context of the accusations they are making.


Yet the choice of a G by someone over the last 2000 years has many people believing Yeshua is actually YHWH.

 

[BigO95]

Does it.
From a Jewish perspective on the word god. Where it can mean a king, angles, Divinity like Messiah/ angle of the Lord or G-d/YHWH.

If the translators chose a G instead of g it changes your understanding


For example

24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a man, claim to be god.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father

the Jews gathered around ask if He’s the Messiah
He gives an answer
They pick up rocks
Messiah asks why
They say you claim to be Messiah/ a god
Messiah answers their claim in the context of the accusations they are making.


Yet the choice of a G by someone over the last 2000 years has many people believing Yeshua is actually YHWH.

John 10:32-38 (KJV)
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

The KJB translators got it right. He was claiming to be the great I AM. Creator of heaven and earth! :hi:

 

[BigO95]

Kings are often called god. Satan is the god of this world.
We are told to have no other gods before the Most High in the ten suggestions

Psalms 86 useses it.


8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.

Psalm 86:1-17 (KJV)
1 Bow down thine ear, O LORD, hear me: for I am poor and needy.
2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee.
3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.
4 Rejoice the soul of thy servant: for unto thee, O Lord, do I lift up my soul.
5 For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee.
6 Give ear, O LORD, unto my prayer; and attend to the voice of my supplications.
7 In the day of my trouble I will call upon thee: for thou wilt answer me.
8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.
9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
10 For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.
11 Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.
12 I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore.
13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.
14 O God, the proud are risen against me, and the assemblies of violent men have sought after my soul; and have not set thee before them.
15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.
16 O turn unto me, and have mercy upon me; give thy strength unto thy servant, and save the son of thine handmaid.
17 Shew me a token for good; that they which hate me may see it, and be ashamed: because thou, LORD, hast holpen me, and comforted me.
would you be kind enough to point out the error?:blink:

 

[Septic]

False God's, Idols if you will. Devil's behind all of them is the reason why some other religions have experienced certain phenomenal things. Many are just dumb statues made of mans hands. No doubt inspired by devil's.

Have you heard the good word about Thor?

 

[BigO95]

Have you heard the good word about Thor?

I'm afraid to ask, but go ahead and lay it on me.

 

[Orangeslice13]

He was claiming to be the great I AM. Creator of heaven and earth! :hi:

Achi,

You will never win a single Jew to faith in their Messiah as long as you continue to fail to understand their view of Messiah. And the promise of Abraham is still future. Our day is coming. Amen.

You are correct in the Messiah is I Am. He has the existence status of the Father. Begotten of the Father. One with the Father. Equal in authority and power with the Father because of the power and Glory of the Father.
It is blasphemy to claim to be Messiah for this very reason.
The Jews have asked Jesus to plainly say if He is the Messiah. We may summarize His response as follows:"You should already know the answer to this question: My words and my works tell you plainly who I am. The reason you don't know who I am is because you do not believe. My sheep hear my voice and know me, but you are not my sheep. I grant eternal life to my sheep, and no one can snatch from my hand those that the Father gives me. My Father is greater than all and no one can snatch my sheep from my Father's hand - my Father and I are One!"At this point, the Jews understand that Jesus is making exclusive claims of equality with God, which (unless true!) are blasphemous. Jesus asks which works He has done that warrant the charge of blasphemy. The Jews reply that they are not stoning Him for His works, but for the words He has just spoken. Jesus replies as follows:

"The Scripture says that God calls the judges in Psalm 82 'gods' on the basis of their divine commission. Thus, since the Scripture cannot be wrong, it is not blasphemy for one with a divine commission to have a divine title. I do not have a commission like the judges; I have an exclusive commission from my Father, for He set me apart and sent me into the world - to do the works you have seen, to say the words I have said, to grant eternal life to my sheep, to hold them fast in the same way my Father does, for He and I are One. Therefore, I have not committed blasphemy! But even if you persist in denying my words, you should believe on the basis of my works, for they prove that the Father is in Me in the same way I am in Him: we are One!"

The Jews, of course, do not believe Jesus - not because they misunderstand Him (such would suggest that Jesus was ineffective in communicating His identity, or was being consciously deceptive) - but because of their lack faith. They’re not Jesus' sheep, as He has said. Thus, their rejection of Him lies in denial and self-deception, the root cause of all who reject God and His Messiah.
But that doesn’t mean that Yeshua and YHWH are the same being.

Search out how many time the Bible recorded the as “”G-d and His Messiah whom He sent.” Or a similar statement containing both G-d and Messiah. Search how many times They’re both in the same place in having a conversation. An example would be the scroll vision from revelations.
The search out how many times Messiah said he has a God and Father just like us.
Finally show me where he says that He is the father. (Not that he’s one with him. Not that he has a name “I Am” but says the He is in fact the Father)


Tl;Dr.

Shalom

 

[Orangeslice13]

Psalm 86:1-17 (KJV)
1 Bow down thine ear, O LORD, hear me: for I am poor and needy.
2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee.
3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.
4 Rejoice the soul of thy servant: for unto thee, O Lord, do I lift up my soul.
5 For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee.
6 Give ear, O LORD, unto my prayer; and attend to the voice of my supplications.
7 In the day of my trouble I will call upon thee: for thou wilt answer me.
8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.
9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
10 For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.
11 Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.
12 I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore.
13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.
14 O God, the proud are risen against me, and the assemblies of violent men have sought after my soul; and have not set thee before them.
15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.
16 O turn unto me, and have mercy upon me; give thy strength unto thy servant, and save the son of thine handmaid.
17 Shew me a token for good; that they which hate me may see it, and be ashamed: because thou, LORD, hast holpen me, and comforted me.
would you be kind enough to point out the error?:blink:

There’s no error in psalms.
And thanks for proving my point.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Lol

Oops

 

[Roustabout]

Same word.
Same error.

They also weren’t real good with the whole G vs g thing too

Can you point me toward some scholarship on this?

Also, in Rev. 1 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

Who is this referring to, Jesus or the Father?

 

[Roustabout]

We have Bible on the age of Adam and you can trace through the geneologies to known points of history. Therefore you can at the least go back to day six and it just so happens that we know from scripture how much time before that. 5 days! 😁

Again, you are starting with a presupposition and imposing your view in to the text.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Can you point me toward some scholarship on this?

Are you seriously going to defend a position that the Gospel is of Paul?
Paul has the authority of G-d to change what Messiah said?
Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. And if you disagree with me that’s fine too.


If it’s Pauls Gospel he can keep it. I am not and never will be a Paulian. As for me and my house we will serve G-d and the Messiah whom He sent.

 

[Roustabout]

Are you seriously going to defend a position that the Gospel is of Paul?
Paul has the authority of G-d to change what Messiah said?
Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. And if you disagree with me that’s fine too.


If it’s Pauls Gospel he can keep it. I am not and never will be a Paulian. As for me and my house we will serve G-d and the Messiah whom He sent.

Referring to it as Paul's gospel is only to distinguish what Jesus (you know, Messiah) gave and commissioned to Paul as opposed to what he gave to the twelve (the gospel of the kingdom).

Did Jesus meet Paul on the road to Damascus?

Oh. And I'll take that to mean you have no scholarship on the subject.

 

[Roustabout]

And what about Rev. 1.
Who is that verse referring to?

 

[BigO95]

Achi,

You will never win a single Jew to faith in their Messiah as long as you continue to fail to understand their view of Messiah. And the promise of Abraham is still future. Our day is coming. Amen.

You are correct in the Messiah is I Am. He has the existence status of the Father. Begotten of the Father. One with the Father. Equal in authority and power with the Father because of the power and Glory of the Father.
It is blasphemy to claim to be Messiah for this very reason.
The Jews have asked Jesus to plainly say if He is the Messiah. We may summarize His response as follows:"You should already know the answer to this question: My words and my works tell you plainly who I am. The reason you don't know who I am is because you do not believe. My sheep hear my voice and know me, but you are not my sheep. I grant eternal life to my sheep, and no one can snatch from my hand those that the Father gives me. My Father is greater than all and no one can snatch my sheep from my Father's hand - my Father and I are One!"At this point, the Jews understand that Jesus is making exclusive claims of equality with God, which (unless true!) are blasphemous. Jesus asks which works He has done that warrant the charge of blasphemy. The Jews reply that they are not stoning Him for His works, but for the words He has just spoken. Jesus replies as follows:

"The Scripture says that God calls the judges in Psalm 82 'gods' on the basis of their divine commission. Thus, since the Scripture cannot be wrong, it is not blasphemy for one with a divine commission to have a divine title. I do not have a commission like the judges; I have an exclusive commission from my Father, for He set me apart and sent me into the world - to do the works you have seen, to say the words I have said, to grant eternal life to my sheep, to hold them fast in the same way my Father does, for He and I are One. Therefore, I have not committed blasphemy! But even if you persist in denying my words, you should believe on the basis of my works, for they prove that the Father is in Me in the same way I am in Him: we are One!"

The Jews, of course, do not believe Jesus - not because they misunderstand Him (such would suggest that Jesus was ineffective in communicating His identity, or was being consciously deceptive) - but because of their lack faith. They’re not Jesus' sheep, as He has said. Thus, their rejection of Him lies in denial and self-deception, the root cause of all who reject God and His Messiah.
But that doesn’t mean that Yeshua and YHWH are the same being.

Search out how many time the Bible recorded the as “”G-d and His Messiah whom He sent.” Or a similar statement containing both G-d and Messiah. Search how many times They’re both in the same place in having a conversation. An example would be the scroll vision from revelations.
The search out how many times Messiah said he has a God and Father just like us.
Finally show me where he says that He is the father. (Not that he’s one with him. Not that he has a name “I Am” but says the He is in fact the Father)


Tl;Dr.

Shalom

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost make up the one true God. 3 in 1. Surely you have heard the doctrine of the Trinity?
I personally know a Jew in West Virginia that was a traditional Jew that believes just like I do on the subject. 😁