Where did life begin? (Merged)

Do you believe we have a creator, aka "God"?

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#3,101
#3,101
LouderVol said:
i definitely agree with the last.

I enjoy these discussions. I enjoy thinking about my faith and beliefs which is why I engage people who don't agree with me. it allows my faith to be on solid ground even in times of personal struggle, my faith doesn't waver.

even when I say I disagree with someone or bring up different points doesn't mean I believe they are wrong in a absolute type of way (won't get to heaven). if thats the case I would say so, hopefully I haven't here.
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You have not. What would you consider to be essential doctrines that must be believed to go to heaven?
Or do you believe that anything will do?
 
#3,102
#3,102
BigO95 said:
You have not. What would you consider to be essential doctrines that must be believed to go to heaven?
Or do you believe that anything will do?
Click to expand...

doctrines I am uncomfortable with as in being the way to God.

Slice is sitting somewhere waiting to jump on this response so to start I will say, all that is needed is grace which God has already freely given us. However, I believe for that grace to be inside of us we have to accept several things. The Ten Commandments are a good start, but Christ calls us to more, to more than "you shall not". I believe good deeds, the works of mercy are required as part of a ministry of faith.

ultimately and simply, I believe we are required to Love God. and it can't be an empty love.
 
#3,103
#3,103
LouderVol said:
doctrines I am uncomfortable with as in being the way to God.

Slice is sitting somewhere waiting to jump on this response so to start I will say, all that is needed is grace which God has already freely given us. However, I believe for that grace to be inside of us we have to accept several things. The Ten Commandments are a good start, but Christ calls us to more, to more than "you shall not". I believe good deeds, the works of mercy are required as part of a ministry of faith.

ultimately and simply, I believe we are required to Love God. and it can't be an empty love.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you've said. You have a Catholic background?
 
#3,104
#3,104
LouderVol said:
doctrines I am uncomfortable with as in being the way to God.

Slice is sitting somewhere waiting to jump on this response so to start I will say, all that is needed is grace which God has already freely given us. However, I believe for that grace to be inside of us we have to accept several things. The Ten Commandments are a good start, but Christ calls us to more, to more than "you shall not". I believe good deeds, the works of mercy are required as part of a ministry of faith.

ultimately and simply, I believe we are required to Love God. and it can't be an empty love.
Click to expand...

See, we both draw a line in the Sand. We just draw them in different places.😀
 
#3,106
#3,106
BigO95 said:
I am saying that God did just fine with the Bible explaining the creation account.
God has not given us every little situation in the Bible, but he did give us many good principles that apply for all areas of life.
Evolution makes many claims against basic biblical theology. It puts death before Adams sin which opens a very big can of worms. Many doctrines would be effected by believing evolution.
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So you believe Adam was vegetarian?
 
#3,108
#3,108
UT-Rex said:
As you initially said it could "just as easily be translated "In the beginning was the saying(action word) and the saying was with G-d and the saying was Devine"", then

I was merely wondering your reasoning as to why (it could be translated that way, as no modern day translation of John 1:1, that I know of, uses this English word "Devine"/"Divine" in that context of the Greek word Theos / Θεὸς).

Yes, there is also Theon / Θεόν (thanks for point this out, as I had forgotten about these 2-different Greek words used in this passage).

1) Theon / Θεόν -- also used in Matt 15:31, "and they glorified the God of Israel"

2) Theos / Θεὸς -- also used (twice) in Matt 22:32, "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

3) and then in the preceding verse, Matt 22:31, there is at least a 3rd way, as Theou / Θεοῦ, "have you not read what God said to you, ... ."

My concern, is that some persons today substitute "Divine" in a way which does not / so as to not recognize/acknowledge the importance of what God said, as "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" (in the context of "This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him", 1 Jn 4:9).
Click to expand...


Quoted to respond to in a bit.

This is so I don’t forget, Achi
 
#3,111
#3,111
LouderVol said:
it is said that time moves differently for God than it does for us. a day to him is more than a life time to us. could that not be the case here? could those days of creation been more or less to us than it was to God?

Psalm 90:4"“For a thousand years in Your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.”

Second Peter 3:8 says something similar.
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1) the context of Ps 90:4 is, that God is forgiving yet powerful, and, that God has been around for a long, long time, from generation to generation / well before even creation, and that people have looked to / called upon God since long ago (the context is not about how long a literal day is, nor about how long a literal day of creation was/is), but I (for one) certainly see that argument (but it's just as clear to believe, that God was capable of creation within the 6 days as written).

The "Sabbath" is 1 day (not 1000 days or 1000 weeks or 1000 years), and the Sabbath was institued based upon the literal 1 day there in creation's 7 days. And I suppose the Jews understand this (but others still want to think that the Jewish King David was trying to say, in the Ps passage, that 1 day of creation could have been a 1000 years).

2) Again, the context of 2 Peter 3:8 is not some Apostolic attempt to show that 1 day of creation is not 1 day (and vs 2 "remember the words spoken beforehand" can include remembering that God created man on Day 6) -- the context here, is the final judgement day / that time of total destruction of this universe and all the elements therein (which will occur at His bidding, at a time of His bidding); and that "the Lord is patient" / long-suffering, that all people "be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spottless and blameless" and so that we "grow in the grace, and knowledge, of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" / "be on (our) guard, lest (we) be carried away by the error of unprincipled men."
 
#3,115
#3,115
UT-Rex said:
As you initially said it could "just as easily be translated "In the beginning was the saying(action word) and the saying was with G-d and the saying was Devine"", then

I was merely wondering your reasoning as to why (it could be translated that way, as no modern day translation of John 1:1, that I know of, uses this English word "Devine"/"Divine" in that context of the Greek word Theos / Θεὸς).

Yes, there is also Theon / Θεόν (thanks for point this out, as I had forgotten about these 2-different Greek words used in this passage).

1) Theon / Θεόν -- also used in Matt 15:31, "and they glorified the God of Israel"

2) Theos / Θεὸς -- also used (twice) in Matt 22:32, "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

3) and then in the preceding verse, Matt 22:31, there is at least a 3rd way, as Theou / Θεοῦ, "have you not read what God said to you, ... ."

My concern, is that some persons today substitute "Divine" in a way which does not / so as to not recognize/acknowledge the importance of what God said, as "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" (in the context of "This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him", 1 Jn 4:9).
Click to expand...


To me the translators are no different than you or I. They have their beliefs and biases that shade the way they translate things. It doesn’t surprise me that they chose to be consistent. In fact I think the consistency is a good thing. They could have translated each use of the word as divine and been within proper definition of the word to do so. Would it have created more problems,in there mind, to go that way as people could possibly use it to lessen the authority of Messiah? That’s a valid point but there’s no way to know for sure. My point is it’s still up to the individual to study for themselves. In my mind the Divine translation is more consistent with the rest of scripture. As I’ve pointed out before it’s very common for the biblical greetings to be “ from G-d the Father and Yeshua Messiah whom He sent. And while I do know people who push the “Jesus was just a man and didn’t exist before his birth” but that is not a position I take. I don’t think scripture supports that either.
No Yeshua is the Only and Unique Beggoten of the Most High. Other that G-d Himself Yeshua is the only being with out beginning or end. Yeshua is the Angle of the Lord and YHWHs name is in him. He is God with us. The Holy one of Israel. The fulfillment of the promise. The Salvation of all Israel blessed be his name forever.
But still not the same being as YHWH.

It’s a very complicated thing to grasp.
But nobody said this was easy.
Actually He said the way was narrow and few find it.
 
#3,117
#3,117
Orangeslice13 said:
To me the translators are no different than you or I. They have their beliefs and biases that shade the way they translate things. It doesn’t surprise me that they chose to be consistent. In fact I think the consistency is a good thing. They could have translated each use of the word as divine and been within proper definition of the word to do so. Would it have created more problems,in there mind, to go that way as people could possibly use it to lessen the authority of Messiah? That’s a valid point but there’s no way to know for sure. My point is it’s still up to the individual to study for themselves. In my mind the Divine translation is more consistent with the rest of scripture. As I’ve pointed out before it’s very common for the biblical greetings to be “ from G-d the Father and Yeshua Messiah whom He sent. And while I do know people who push the “Jesus was just a man and didn’t exist before his birth” but that is not a position I take. I don’t think scripture supports that either.
No Yeshua is the Only and Unique Beggoten of the Most High. Other that G-d Himself Yeshua is the only being with out beginning or end. ------ Yeshua is the Angle of the Lord ---- and YHWHs name is in him. He is God with us. The Holy one of Israel. The fulfillment of the promise. The Salvation of all Israel blessed be his name forever.
But still not the same being as YHWH.

It’s a very complicated thing to grasp.
But nobody said this was easy.
Actually He said the way was narrow and few find it.
Click to expand...

Hebrews 1:5, "For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?"

This teaches the Hebrew nation, and gentiles, that Jesus is higher than the angels.

Can you let us know: what is your source, for saying what you did there above (which I separated with the ------- and -------)?
 
#3,122
#3,122
UT-Rex said:
Hebrews 1:5, "For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?"

This teaches the Hebrew nation, and gentiles, that Jesus is higher than the angels.

Can you let us know: what is your source, for saying what you did there above (which I separated with the ------- and -------)?
Click to expand...

Exodus 23.

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.


Vs 21- G-d says His name is in him.
That makes the angle of the lord more than just an angle.
Vs 22- G-d says the angle of the lord speaks the mind of G-d.

Now about Hebrews

1:6
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Wait.... the Son is eternal


1:14.
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Wait....that’s not right. That’s what all the angles do.

2:2
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

G-d spoke the word that was steadfast

2:10
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Yeshua has to be made perfect threw suffering?
Really?

2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

He wasn’t merciful till after becoming human ?




There’s a lot of Hebrews that’s questionable at best.
Those are just a couple.
 
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#3,124
#3,124
I tend to be like the Bereans

Acts 17
10Then The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and Searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. 12Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.


There are a few vs here and there that I question but For me Hebrews doesn’t add up.

Again I’m not trying too convince you. That’s just my opinion.
 
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