Where did life begin? (Merged)

Do you believe we have a creator, aka "God"?

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#2,051
#2,051
Wafflestomper said:
If humans created sentient robots with the ability to suffer would it be within our rights to inflict suffering upon them?
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We're responsible for pugs, and all the inbred torment that their existence entails. Nobody says much against that.
 
#2,053
#2,053
We exterminate life regularly. Rats, insects ect. Our production of chicken at the Tyson food plants is beyond reprehensible. Why is their torturous short life caused by humans not a major issue?
Because we only care about suffering when it fits a narrative?
 
#2,054
#2,054
Orangeslice13 said:
We exterminate life regularly. Rats, insects ect. Our production of chicken at the Tyson food plants is beyond reprehensible. Why is their torturous short life caused by humans not a major issue?
Because we only care about suffering when it fits a narrative?
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Rats and bugs get the short end of the stick.
 
#2,057
#2,057
Since we're on the subject of torture...

It occured to me earlier today that one of the most sadistic things you could do to another humam being, is to infect him with rabies, and waterboard him when the disease is in its late stages.
 
#2,058
#2,058
Orangeslice13 said:
We exterminate life regularly. Rats, insects ect. Our production of chicken at the Tyson food plants is beyond reprehensible. Why is their torturous short life caused by humans not a major issue?
Because we only care about suffering when it fits a narrative?
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily disagree with you on all of these, although it is generally necessary for some things to die in order for to survive. I don't believe intentionally torturing any of them is okay though.
 
#2,060
#2,060
Wafflestomper said:
I don't necessarily disagree with you on all of these, although it is generally necessary for some things to die in order for to survive. I don't believe intentionally torturing any of them is okay though.
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Is it your belief that G-d intentionally tortures?
Or is it your belief that allowing torture to exist is the same as torturing Himself?

Imo G-d doesn’t Torture. He has judged and terminated as recorded in Torah. And He has allowed testing/torturing as recorded in the book of Job. (If you believe Job to be literal but that’s a different conversation) but I don’t believe allowing it and prosecuting it are the same when it comes to G-d
 
#2,061
#2,061
Orangeslice13 said:
Is it your belief that G-d intentionally tortures?
Or is it your belief that allowing torture to exist is the same as torturing Himself?

Imo G-d doesn’t Torture. He has judged and terminated as recorded in Torah. And He has allowed testing/torturing as recorded in the book of Job. (If you believe Job to be literal but that’s a different conversation) but I don’t believe allowing it and prosecuting it are the same when it comes to G-d
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In the case of Job, he may as well have done it himself. I don't see him as any less culpable because he didn't do it himself.

How about the plagues of Egypt?

I don't think you'd believe in the same type of Hell as Christians, but that's another example for them.
 
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#2,062
#2,062
Wafflestomper said:
In the case of Job, he may as well have done it himself. I don't see him as any less culpable because he didn't do it himself.

How about the plagues of Egypt?

I don't think you'd believe in the same type of Hell as Christians, but that's another example for them.
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Imo there is no eternal life in torment/torture. Death means death....2nd or otherwise. So yes I’m different than Christians in the way. I also feel the vastness of scripture support my view over a few vs out of context (but I digress)


The plagues of Egypt are on pharaoh. It was his decisions that lead to the death and destruction.
In the same way I few myself as the head of my household. Any decisions I delegate to Red are still my responsibility. If they go horribly wrong.....my fault not Reds.
 
#2,063
#2,063
WS,
(Clearly we are stipulating that there is a G-d for the purpose of this question)
Is all death bad/morally wrong in your opinion?
Or is it premature death that’s the problem?
And in your mind where is the line for premature death if G-d were being fair/righteous?
 
#2,064
#2,064
Orangeslice13 said:
WS,
(Clearly we are stipulating that there is a G-d for the purpose of this question)
Is all death bad/morally wrong in your opinion?
Or is it premature death that’s the problem?
And in your mind where is the line for premature death if G-d were being fair/righteous?
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Why do people need to die at all? Can't God just allow them to cease existing/be "raptured" away? What is the purpose of an often painful end to your life?
 
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#2,065
#2,065
Wafflestomper said:
Why do people need to die at all? Can't God just allow them to cease existing/be "raptured" away? What is the purpose of an often painful end to your life?
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Before I answer...I’m not trying to play gotcha with my questions and I know they can be tough ones but I’m genuinely interested in your opinion and wouldn’t ask if I didn’t think you had an answer.

To answer your question.
I don’t answer for G-d unless it’s spelled out in Torah.
I will sometimes extrapolate based on other statements but I’ve got nothing.....at this point mainly because I’ve never really researched it. Give me some time....I’ll look into it.








Although there is a theory that the book of Job is actually a telling of human history and an explanation of why we’re here. I’m actually currently working on that and have just started looking into so I’ll let you know if I come up with any answers.

But if you take the premise of that book and the “have you considered my servant Job” an argument can be made (and has been) that humans are given free will to determine who would choose to follow G-d. That would be relevant if you were replacing the number of angles who fell with Satan.

Again just stating on that. I’ll let you know if I find anything interesting.
 
#2,066
#2,066
Wafflestomper said:
Why do people need to die at all? Can't God just allow them to cease existing/be "raptured" away? What is the purpose of an often painful end to your life?
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So if after death and judgement a person is condemned to the second death and they are gone....all consiness erased.....forgotten like they never existed......is the painful ending to life still relevant? Pushing that argument even further if G-d operates outside of time and at the end of all things G-d eliminates that time so that it never happened for the “damned” was their suffering, that never actually happened, relevant?


Yes I know those are huge “what if’s” but that’s what we do at work. Lol
 
#2,068
#2,068
Orangeslice13 said:
Is it your belief that G-d intentionally tortures?
Or is it your belief that allowing torture to exist is the same as torturing Himself?

Imo G-d doesn’t Torture. He has judged and terminated as recorded in Torah. And He has allowed testing/torturing as recorded in the book of Job. (If you believe Job to be literal but that’s a different conversation) but I don’t believe allowing it and prosecuting it are the same when it comes to G-d
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What you're missing is the fact that when men sinned, it opened a pandoras box. The Bible says that man's heart is wicked. There is no depth too low when it comes to man's depraved heart. We can see this on a daily basis. God allows torture because he allows sins in this this world.

The fact is, God's laws are imprinted in our hearts, that's why we have a conscious and that's why people know wrong from right.
 
#2,069
#2,069
omaha_vol said:
What you're missing is the fact that when men sinned, it opened a pandoras box. The Bible says that man's heart is wicked. There is no depth too low when it comes to man's depraved heart. We can see this on a daily basis. God allows torture because he allows sins in this this world.

The fact is, God's laws are imprinted in our hearts, that's why we have a conscious and that's why people know wrong from right.
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So you keep G-ds laws?
So you no longer need to teach scripture or study it as you just “know” the law?
All the denominations are gone now and everyone is in agreement on what YHWH says?


This is what Jeremiah says about that.
This covenant is with Israel. Unless you’ve joined yourself to Israel’s promise .....
For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Isra’el after those days,” says Adonai: “I will put my Torah within them and write it on their hearts; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 33 (34) No longer will any of them teach his fellow community member or his brother, ‘Know Adonai’; for all will know me, from the least of them to the greatest; because I will forgive their wickednesses and remember their sins no more.”


Nope that’s a future prophecy. And it’s not a replacement covenant either. G-d is the same yesterday today and forever. His law still stands. It’s funny so many claim His Messiah with no clue how the law worked in connection with Grace or how Messiah fulfilled it
 
#2,074
#2,074
Orangeslice13 said:
So if after death and judgement a person is condemned to the second death and they are gone....all consiness erased.....forgotten like they never existed......is the painful ending to life still relevant? Pushing that argument even further if G-d operates outside of time and at the end of all things G-d eliminates that time so that it never happened for the “damned” was their suffering, that never actually happened, relevant?


Yes I know those are huge “what if’s” but that’s what we do at work. Lol
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I'm not really following. You're asking if God erases the time when you died if that makes it okay, or ?
 
#2,075
#2,075
Wafflestomper said:
I'm not really following. You're asking if God erases the time when you died if that makes it okay, or ?
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Pretty much
(My dad is a PhD level science guy so we have interesting discussions. )

The theory is that time isn’t real. There is no reality. It’s all an illusion. At the end of all things those who refused G-d didn’t really exist. They won’t even be a memory for the redeemed. Because they didn’t exist
 
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