What does Butch do?

[Roustabout]

To expand on Shoop ...he coaches a 43 single gap defense. A single gap system has each of the front seven responsible for a gap ...as opposed to a two gap system where the front seven are responsible for a player . The linemen typically tie up a blocker and the backers roam free to make the plays . Also Shoop prefers to play NFL style and leave the 43 on the field on 'possible' passing downs ( not third and long ) where it could be pass or run regardless of how many receivers are on the field. So if there are three receivers ...the OLB steps out and covers the extra receiver. No worries though ..he should not have to play man because Shoop imploys mostly zones, especially quarters which many have referred to as 'cover 2' in absolute error .

So why did his defense suck so bad ? Injuries . Period . And here is why. To play a one gap scheme like this , the front has to be aggressive and fast to attack and break the gaps beating the offense to the gap. We have one DT and the other DTs are manned by backup defensive ends. The interior is getting blown up. 2 gaps are blown by this failure. Since the OLB , or 'star' player is the focal point and allows the defense to not switch personnel groupings ...the loss of JRM was huge from a strategic POV , because not he has to switch groupings and gives up the element of defensive scheme and suprise. They now know you are in a nickle so they will run on those 'tweener' downs.

So when the scheme is running optimally, the secondary is operating in zones. This requires the front pressure front the fast free flowing 1 gap system. Now you are not getting that . The front is having to shift resources from other gaps to compensate for the f'd up A & B gap inside . The 'star' player is not picking up receivers , backs, TE's because he is flowing to a gap. You have 8 different combos of secondary players playing man with no pressure from the front .

All of this turmoil and Shoop cant bring the magic with his exotic fire blitzes , scrapes, and zone traps ...because the injuries have left this defense with no gap control.

I have to give Shoop a pass this year. The injuries have hit his philosophy where it hurts and I can see no way he could have corrected it with the personnel / injury issues .

Will hold judgement until next year

Confused.
Is this why we constantly saw LBs sucked into the LOS? I'm used to seeing LBs read and then break to hit a gap, where a back might be coming to. Instead , the LBs were constantly eatin up by a blocker, unable to react or get off block. Seems they would have been better setting up further back. Thoughts.

 

[RollerVol]

so, injuries did have a lot to do with the way our defense played this year...who'da thunk...

GO VOLS...BEAT HUSKERS!

 

[savannahfan]

To expand on Shoop ...he coaches a 43 single gap defense. A single gap system has each of the front seven responsible for a gap ...as opposed to a two gap system where the front seven are responsible for a player . The linemen typically tie up a blocker and the backers roam free to make the plays . Also Shoop prefers to play NFL style and leave the 43 on the field on 'possible' passing downs ( not third and long ) where it could be pass or run regardless of how many receivers are on the field. So if there are three receivers ...the OLB steps out and covers the extra receiver. No worries though ..he should not have to play man because Shoop imploys mostly zones, especially quarters which many have referred to as 'cover 2' in absolute error .

So why did his defense suck so bad ? Injuries . Period . And here is why. To play a one gap scheme like this , the front has to be aggressive and fast to attack and break the gaps beating the offense to the gap. We have one DT and the other DTs are manned by backup defensive ends. The interior is getting blown up. 2 gaps are blown by this failure. Since the OLB , or 'star' player is the focal point and allows the defense to not switch personnel groupings ...the loss of JRM was huge from a strategic POV , because not he has to switch groupings and gives up the element of defensive scheme and suprise. They now know you are in a nickle so they will run on those 'tweener' downs.

So when the scheme is running optimally, the secondary is operating in zones. This requires the front pressure front the fast free flowing 1 gap system. Now you are not getting that . The front is having to shift resources from other gaps to compensate for the f'd up A & B gap inside . The 'star' player is not picking up receivers , backs, TE's because he is flowing to a gap. You have 8 different combos of secondary players playing man with no pressure from the front .

All of this turmoil and Shoop cant bring the magic with his exotic fire blitzes , scrapes, and zone traps ...because the injuries have left this defense with no gap control.

I have to give Shoop a pass this year. The injuries have hit his philosophy where it hurts and I can see no way he could have corrected it with the personnel / injury issues .

Will hold judgement until next year

Good heavens!!! I really enjoy posts when poster knows what they are talking about. I wish I understood 1/2 this explanation. What I do understand I thank you for. To put this in my simple ability to explain, which I have tried to say before, "too many injuries and too little time for most players to grasp system in short amount of time" Thanks

 

[savannahfan]

And when it was not working - why was there no adjustments? If I am being honest, the defensive play calling at Vandy in the second half looked like someone was trying to lose.

Edited to add: I don't believe that is the case but it looked that bad.

Could it be that players just didn't understand their jobs as the play calls for. Having to spend time figuring out what's happening, then make play, takes too long. Makes the players look like they don't care. I think they care, just don't know what to do about it in time to do it.

 

[terrypedigo]

His job is on the line he better clean house and get some coaches in here that can coach after half time on game days.

 

[sccshortstop]

Thanks 73 for your explanation to those of us that are not as familiar as others on the defensive side of the ball. I don't understand most of it but it appears that you at least have a working knowledge. Many on here like myself sees the hole the size of a dumptruck and do not look at whats going happening around the line.

 

[savannahfan]

A guy I'd love to see replace Martinez is Joe Tumpkin, from Colorado. Their secondary was amazing this year, and ranked 13th in the nation in pass defense. He coached at Central Michigan before that so that could be a connection between him and Butch.

CUBuffs.com | University of Colorado Buffaloes Athletics

Here again I would like to point out that defense back has been a problem for years. I wish someone would go back to a time when we had a really good defense back field and look at the background of the players in said backfield as apposed to these latter day guys. At this level I just don't think being a great athlete is enough.( seems like this has been main measuring stick for some time) Good player smarts and better coaching to me are the answer. ( as to player smarts, Qb in high school, receiver in high school,, understand what a receiver is going to do before he does it type experince)

 

[savannahfan]

Thanks 73 for your explanation to those of us that are not as familiar as others on the defensive side of the ball. I don't understand most of it but it appears that you at least have a working knowledge. Many on here like myself sees the hole the size of a dumptruck and do not look at whats going happening around the line.

Well said!!

 

[ReaderVol]

Why does everyone assume Jones told Shoop he couldn't make staff changes?
Maybe, just maybe Shoop didn't want to make universal changes in year one and thought he could work with who he had. No way on earth he could've ever imagined the crazy number of injuries in key positions would occur.
Just a thought... LOL

 

[ReaderVol]

To expand on Shoop ...he coaches a 43 single gap defense. A single gap system has each of the front seven responsible for a gap ...as opposed to a two gap system where the front seven are responsible for a player . The linemen typically tie up a blocker and the backers roam free to make the plays . Also Shoop prefers to play NFL style and leave the 43 on the field on 'possible' passing downs ( not third and long ) where it could be pass or run regardless of how many receivers are on the field. So if there are three receivers ...the OLB steps out and covers the extra receiver. No worries though ..he should not have to play man because Shoop imploys mostly zones, especially quarters which many have referred to as 'cover 2' in absolute error .

So why did his defense suck so bad ? Injuries . Period . And here is why. To play a one gap scheme like this , the front has to be aggressive and fast to attack and break the gaps beating the offense to the gap. We have one DT and the other DTs are manned by backup defensive ends. The interior is getting blown up. 2 gaps are blown by this failure. Since the OLB , or 'star' player is the focal point and allows the defense to not switch personnel groupings ...the loss of JRM was huge from a strategic POV , because not he has to switch groupings and gives up the element of defensive scheme and suprise. They now know you are in a nickle so they will run on those 'tweener' downs.

So when the scheme is running optimally, the secondary is operating in zones. This requires the front pressure front the fast free flowing 1 gap system. Now you are not getting that . The front is having to shift resources from other gaps to compensate for the f'd up A & B gap inside . The 'star' player is not picking up receivers , backs, TE's because he is flowing to a gap. You have 8 different combos of secondary players playing man with no pressure from the front .

All of this turmoil and Shoop cant bring the magic with his exotic fire blitzes , scrapes, and zone traps ...because the injuries have left this defense with no gap control.

I have to give Shoop a pass this year. The injuries have hit his philosophy where it hurts and I can see no way he could have corrected it with the personnel / injury issues .

Will hold judgement until next year

Absolutely spot on. Plus one

 

[m1al]

I agree with you. You hire a guy because of what he accomplished at Vandy and PSU. You don't allow him to bring his own guys, you ask him not to change the terminology, you force his new assistants who were hired under a different coordinator to buy into a new philosophy and to teach things in a new way...then you have catastrophic injuries to the guys.

That's why it looked like that at the end of the season. Hard to overcome, but that's just my opinion and defensively I need to get better, so my opinion ain't worth much, but I appreciate yours greatly. Thanks!

As far as the offense and tempo. I'm being overly simplistic. You can't go three and out 5 times a game, you can't turn the ball over and you can't have pre-snap penalties on early downs without putting the defense in bad position.This works in tandem with special teams where our punter has probably been the least valued player on the roster over the last couple of years.

We had a lack of discipline and injuries this season that don't seem to jive with the last three years offensively. I think the shortcomings this season...a large part...the loss of the S&C. That guy spends more time with the team than any of the coaches and he also puts the Freshman all-everything HS players in their place.

Fixable stuff.

GBO!!!

You can almost say the defense has lost a full year of development under Shoop because of the mess you described in your first paragraph.. And that's assuming Shoop is allowed to bring in 'his guys' this year..

That's just piss poor management...

 

[basspond]

To expand on Shoop ...he coaches a 43 single gap defense. A single gap system has each of the front seven responsible for a gap ...as opposed to a two gap system where the front seven are responsible for a player . The linemen typically tie up a blocker and the backers roam free to make the plays . Also Shoop prefers to play NFL style and leave the 43 on the field on 'possible' passing downs ( not third and long ) where it could be pass or run regardless of how many receivers are on the field. So if there are three receivers ...the OLB steps out and covers the extra receiver. No worries though ..he should not have to play man because Shoop imploys mostly zones, especially quarters which many have referred to as 'cover 2' in absolute error .

So why did his defense suck so bad ? Injuries . Period . And here is why. To play a one gap scheme like this , the front has to be aggressive and fast to attack and break the gaps beating the offense to the gap. We have one DT and the other DTs are manned by backup defensive ends. The interior is getting blown up. 2 gaps are blown by this failure. Since the OLB , or 'star' player is the focal point and allows the defense to not switch personnel groupings ...the loss of JRM was huge from a strategic POV , because not he has to switch groupings and gives up the element of defensive scheme and suprise. They now know you are in a nickle so they will run on those 'tweener' downs.

So when the scheme is running optimally, the secondary is operating in zones. This requires the front pressure front the fast free flowing 1 gap system. Now you are not getting that . The front is having to shift resources from other gaps to compensate for the f'd up A & B gap inside . The 'star' player is not picking up receivers , backs, TE's because he is flowing to a gap. You have 8 different combos of secondary players playing man with no pressure from the front .

All of this turmoil and Shoop cant bring the magic with his exotic fire blitzes , scrapes, and zone traps ...because the injuries have left this defense with no gap control.

I have to give Shoop a pass this year. The injuries have hit his philosophy where it hurts and I can see no way he could have corrected it with the personnel / injury issues .

Will hold judgement until next year

Hey Butch! This is how you need to speak about the game of football. "Gotta win the 1 on 1 battles" and "it's about playing complimentary football" doesn't tell anyone squat. I used to watch the Butch Jones show but, the only part I liked was when Erik Ainge explained what actually happened. The rest was just filler material. I know very little about football but, I guarantee I could come up with better phrases about the game and how we could improve before the next one. Just tell it like it is, we're big boys and can handle it.

 

[ReaderVol]

You can almost say the defense has lost a full year of development under Shoop because of the mess you described in your first paragraph.. And that's assuming Shoop is allowed to bring in 'his guys' this year..

That's just piss poor management...

Show me where Jones didn't allow Shoop to "bring in his own guys"?
Thanks in advance

 

[ReaderVol]

Hey Butch! This is how you need to speak about the game of football. "Gotta win the 1 on 1 battles" and "it's about playing complimentary football" doesn't tell anyone squat. I used to watch the Butch Jones show but, the only part I liked was when Erik Ainge explained what actually happened. The rest was just filler material. I know very little about football but, I guarantee I could come up with better phrases about the game and how we could improve before the next one. Just tell it like it is, we're big boys and can handle it.

This is so funny.
He speaks like pretty much all other coaches. Period

 

[FranklinVFL]

BEFORE any staff changes, first thing he does is address BS in media today from McElroy, SDS, etc on articles last two days about him. If he doesn't go all Tony Montana on them, it's a mistake.

Respect your opinion, but disagree. A head coach cannot spend time answering every rumor, negative article or tweet. They should be focused on coaching, staff and player development, recruiting and winning.

I am sure he addresses the BS with recruits, their parents, current players and staff in their meetings and with recruits/families in private settings. His last two commitments tell me he is answering concerns about these articles and his job security.

To answer these in a public forum gives a semblance of validity to them that he has to acknowledge these and answer to their truth.

Then he has to answer every negative article that ever comes out or people will say that it must be true because he denied the last 8 negative articles but not this one. The merry go round circus would never end.

I think he is handling this just fine.

 

[basspond]

This is so funny.
He speaks like pretty much all other coaches. Period

Well then, it might be better to go Belichick style and just frown and say "no comment". At least Fulmer would say "Dad gum" and "we got our butts kicked".

 

[93TNVol]

Who knows what CBJ will do, but my hope is that he will make the changes that are needed to take us to top. I would prefer it happen under his reign because that is the quickest way for the fan base to see UT dominance again. If we have to go through another head coach change, it just takes longer. Come on Butch! You can do it!

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

Some of you obviously have figured out what the problem is. Maybe you should send your advice to the Coach.

Seriously, Jones has big decisions to make around the defense. To do that he needs to look at FACTS and ignore what armchair coaches on fan boards and media folks say is the problem and the cure. It is his reputation and job at stake. Others giving advice aren't impacted either way.

Many applauded the hiring of Shoop and based on how his defenses looked at previous stops that was warranted. But even the so called best can have less than spectacular performances.

I do find it ironic that many give Shoop the benefit of the doubt because he was successful elsewhere while they have from day 1 not given Coach Jones the benefit of his success at other schools. That's when the agendas are obvious - because one without an agenda would be consistent in such evaluations.

Did.... did you actually read any of what was posted before you commented... or did you just simply decide to degrade the integrity of what was actually a good conversation with "you guys are just clueless armchair coaches who know nothing and there's no way any of you could possibly understand football!!!!!"

Edit: Oh, and I felt this was an appropriate 2,000th post

 

[SmokinBob]

Ill take a shot at it and if you want to add something , I would love to here your observations. Always want to learn

Without those three, I believe 30 type fronts were out of the question . None of the guys left after the onslaught of injuries are big enough to play nose or two gap. I line of thought I have heard is to go three down 5 LBs or some hybrid of that nature. Doing that would have effectively nullified Barnett and Vereen and probably gotten one of the LBs or safeties hurt ...there is nothing in the middle. With the lack of interior play nothing really works . The offense will control the interior with minimal resources and will flex resource out to barnett , vereen or any LB or safety that you walk up. If you go heavy with a 44 or 52 ( which we did at Vandy some ) you are getting no pressure and leaving receivers in man coverage for far to long .

I think the only thing that could maybe have been done better was some in play stuff. More movement on the front , last moment shifts . Stand guys up and flip alignments last moment. Try to screw up the blocking scheme and QB concentration . Stunts stems twists overload one side and funnel . Walk guys into the box and then jail break them back into coverage to try to set the bait and confuse. Send offensive linemen out there to block theirs and just let the LBs run. That is truly how desperate the defense was at that point ...where Shoop really could not have had a bad idea.

I think to be the elite defensive unit that many fantasize about us being ...we need about 6 O'Brien, Tuttle and Mckenzies and some good DE's to match . Whatever our offensive philosophy ...they cant leave the defesne on the field for 930 snaps. If their identity is up tempo , explosive fine ....but you have to pack it in some and have some 7 minute drives that produce points and keep the D off the field.

More than you asked ...but I need to get that stuff off my chest . :ermm:

Good Post - clear and precise explanation of our situation, imho. :hi:

 

[jbcollins]

this thread is enjoyable to read.

 

[sona]

I think he must let Shoop bring in who he wants unless he is willing risk another year of horrible D.

 

[Mick]

this thread is enjoyable to read.

It sure has.

 

[HuntlandVolinColo]

Its funny ...they top teams in the country are typically the top notch recruiting teams in the country. Alabama has had the number 1 class for 8 years now. The only team that I can recall that was an anomaly to this was Osbournes Cornhuskers ...but his S&C programs may have had some advantages that others didn't and his offense was a foreign language to most DC's . Florida , Miami , FSU , Ohio State , even our Vols were recruiting powerhouses in the 90's. So yeah ...you have to develop players but history says if you want to win big you have to recruit big.

I agree, if you don't have both, you won't be top shelf. But if you have to rank them, I would take a coach who can develop players over raw talent.

 

[ReaderVol]

I think he must let Shoop bring in who he wants unless he is willing risk another year of horrible D.

I'll ask yet again. Why do so many of you think Jones didn't allow him to make any changes he wanted?
I remember Shoop making comments about one of the reasons he came to UT was BECAUSE OF the coaches. He said he spent hours and hours with them during the interview process.
So do you think Jones told Shoop he couldn't?

 

[vol66]

I'll ask yet again. Why do so many of you think Jones didn't allow him to make any changes he wanted?
I remember Shoop making comments about one of the reasons he came to UT was BECAUSE OF the coaches. He said he spent hours and hours with them during the interview process.
So do you think Jones told Shoop he couldn't?

I am speaking for no one else...

Jones did this with Debord too. He came in, met all the coaches and they talk philosophy.

My belief is that Jones believed they were getting close and he wanted to get incrementally better without rocking the boat.

In other words, it would be easier for one coach to adapt to the terminology already in place than for everyone (players and coaches) to have to start over.

In the cases of Debord and Shoop, they agreed.

It's worked out seemingly okay on offense and I'd been chalking up the struggles on defense to injuries until the Haney article came out.

You can't have assistants that don't buy in. That won't work.