Wazzu coach fired for failing to get vaccinated.

[gisman]

Who dies from Covid? People who are sick already. Being obese and or having diabetes will greatly increase your likely hood of death.

Healthy people die at a very low rate.

People without other contributing factors are a very low percentage of the total. A report from last year said that only 6% of the deaths didn't have other co-morbidities.

This year is different, we already have more deaths than a year with no vaccine.

I don't look at death certificates, just the data that is reported, which may or may not be the same. Don't know.

 

[gisman]

Further consideration regarding the adjusted numbers:

Why wouldn't it make you more, not less, confident in the CDC (The Government) when they voluntarily corrected an inaccuracy? If you were right, they should have left the numbers as they were because it would serve the narrative better...but they did just the opposite.

Not necessarily. The reduction in total cases made covid deadly look more deadly.

They really didn't announce that they adjusted the number down, it just happened.

34,000,000 cases in 14-15 months wouldn't scare some as bad saying you have a 1.7% chance of dying from it.

Early on the CDC was trying to show how fast it was spreading, now they want to show how dangerous it is.

 

[bamawriter]

Who dies from Covid? People who are sick already. Being obese and or having diabetes will greatly increase your likely hood of death.

Healthy people die at a very low rate.

People without other contributing factors are a very low percentage of the total. A report from last year said that only 6% of the deaths didn't have other co-morbidities.

All of that is true. But you could say it about most diseases. Healthy people rarely die of the flu. Cancer seems to be the one beast that can have easily identifiable contributing factors, but sometimes has no rhyme or reason.

This year is different, we already have more deaths than a year with no vaccine.

I don't look at death certificates, just the data that is reported, which may or may not be the same. Don't know.

Covid really didn't start spreading to a signficant level until April/May of last year. And the vaccine wasn't available to all adults until March of this year. The arrival of the Delta variant brought a more easily transmissible bug that was more dangerous to young people than the OG version. That more people have died this year is not terribly surprising.

That being said, the vast majority of those who have died (even since March) have been unvaccinated. You can draw whatever conclusion you want from that. I'd argue that the vaccine has kept an already awful year from being much worse.

 

[GoVols1998Yeah!]

The PREP Act declaration for Covid-19 has been amended several times to date, but the protection from liability for adverse effects for the companies that developed the vaccines still doesn't sunset until October 1, 2024. So, the government doesn't actually believe that the vaccines are safe yet.

 

[bamawriter]

The PREP Act declaration for Covid-19 has been amended several times to date, but the protection from liability for adverse effects for the companies that developed the vaccines still doesn't sunset until October 1, 2024. So, the government doesn't actually believe that the vaccines are safe yet.

This has been raised by many vaccine sceptics, but it strikes me as a huge non-issue. Vaccine manufacturers have been shielded from liability since the Reagan days. PREPA simply consolidated oversight under the DHS in the event of an EUA. You're no more able to sue the Pfizer over a flu shot than you are the mRNA jab.

Whether that is a good thing or not is up for debate.

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

Ok a tetanus shot is required by an industry, my bad. Outside of that I’ve not heard of employers mandating any other health requirements as a condition of employment. In this case it just happens to be the Covid vaccine.

Virtually any major hospital system has the annual flu shot as a condition of employment.

 

[Volstar65]

I have no reason to believe there won't be a "next wave" or however you want to characterize it. I hope I'm wrong. I can assure you I'm more sick of this than you.

I am not currently wearing masks anywhere. If numbers and my calculations are such that I would feel compelled to wear a mask at an outdoor event, I'll just watch it on TV.

Like I said, my strategy has so far worked for me. Hope it continues to do so but I'm not going to be stupid about it.

You are vaccinated right?

 

[Delmar]

Back to the coaches situation, I doubt he’s going to have much luck suing the university. From an article I saw today, it is a WA state mandate that all state employees must be vaccinated and he was a state employee. He refused and was fired. The university had no say in it. They are going to blame the state so good luck with that. If he says it was because he is against vaccines for religious or other reasons, the first question they’ll ask is if he had a flu shot or any other vaccine in his life.

 

[bamawriter]

Back to the coaches situation, I doubt he’s going to have much luck suing the university. From an article I saw today, it is a WA state mandate that all state employees must be vaccinated and he was a state employee. He refused and was fired. The university had no say in it. They are going to blame the state so good luck with that. If he says it was because he is against vaccines for religious or other reasons, the first question they’ll ask is if he had a flu shot or any other vaccine in his life.

He did request a religious exemption, but it was denied. According to his attorney, Rolovich is Catholic. Unless he's a member of a fringe sect that is outside the Roman Catholic Church, his religion doesn't reject vaccinations.

 

[AthensVol2007]

I’m not keen on the government requiring a Covid vaccine, but public schools require child immunizations to attend school. If parents don’t agree, they home school.

A job is not a constitutional right, so they aren’t forcing anyone to get the vaccine. You just go work somewhere else.

Again, I’m not really in favor of it in the government sector, but I’m just telling you the legal issues.

If the 100 employee mandate goes into effect it’ll be very hard to work elsewhere for many people. Not a lot of employers below that threshold anymore and definitely not enough for myriad of people to make the salaries they may be used to.

 

[AthensVol2007]

Virtually any major hospital system has the annual flu shot as a condition of employment.

My wife has worked at a hospital for 2 years and senior care or healthcare for 10 years has never been mandated to receive the flu shot. She lines up immediately every year to get it on her own regardless.

 

[AthensVol2007]

I got x-rays in the 70s mandated for my part-time job unloading railroad cars. At my last job, despite having gotten a yearly physical by my personal internist for 25+ years, I was required to get a separate physical by a "company approved provider" including bloodwork/urine/etc to be eligible for insurance.

SEVERAL jobs and certainly schools have required vaccines for decades like MMR.

This is hardly a new situation.

These coaches walked away from millions of dollars because they didn't want to take a vaccine that has been given multi-million times worldwide with very very few issues. Sure, it's a choice, but it's a multi-million dollar bad choice.

Very few issues…in the short term. For all the people who are worried about the unknown,
long term effects of Covid, it amazes me that so few are unworried about the unknown, long term effects of a “vaccine” who’s technology has been around/in the works for 15-20 years yet has never been implemented until now. Most, myself included, aren’t worried about the safety of the vaccine, we just don’t see the point for a virus that’s non-lethal for 99.8% of the population. I just got done being infected with it and I was sick and felt like crap off and on for 10 days; so what, I was sick that’s what happens. I’ve seen very few, flu shot or not, who don’t feel like garbage when they contract the flu.

 

[bamawriter]

Very few issues…in the short term. For all the people who are worried about the unknown,
long term effects of Covid, it amazes me that so few are unworried about the unknown, long term effects of a “vaccine” who’s technology has been around/in the works for 15-20 years yet has never been implemented until now. Most, myself included, aren’t worried about the safety of the vaccine, we just don’t see the point for a virus that’s non-lethal for 99.8% of the population. I just got done being infected with it and I was sick and felt like crap off and on for 10 days; so what, I was sick that’s what happens. I’ve seen very few, flu shot or not, who don’t feel like garbage when they contract the flu.

I can't argue against these completely unknowable "long term" risks. What I can say is that anything that appears 3 months or later post-injection is considered "long term" by the FDA, and no vaccine currently in use has ever shown a spontaneously occurring effect after 8 months (and those are astronomically rare). While it is true that the mRNA vaccines are new and have been injected into a relatively limited number of arms over the past 15 years, they've shown no long term effects inconsistent with other vaccines. Further, it would be somewhat hard to explain how a long term effect could develop after so many months as every bit of the vaccine is processed out of the body within weeks.

But, if all of that is unavailing, there is still the traditional vaccine produced by Johnson & Johnson, which could not possibly have any of the hypothetical long term effects of the mRNA drugs.

Given that the shots went into arms during trials over 15 months ago, the first public recipients started getting it over 10 months ago, and all adults have been eligible for over 7 months, when exactly should we be seeing these possible long term effects?

 

[n_huffhines]

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

My wife has worked at a hospital for 2 years and senior care or healthcare for 10 years has never been mandated to receive the flu shot. She lines up immediately every year to get it on her own regardless.

Yeah, and I work at the largest medical institution in the state and it is a requirement

 

[OrangeSoddyDaisy]

You are vaccinated right?

3 times

 

[OrangeSoddyDaisy]

Very few issues…in the short term. For all the people who are worried about the unknown,
long term effects of Covid, it amazes me that so few are unworried about the unknown, long term effects of a “vaccine” who’s technology has been around/in the works for 15-20 years yet has never been implemented until now. Most, myself included, aren’t worried about the safety of the vaccine, we just don’t see the point for a virus that’s non-lethal for 99.8% of the population. I just got done being infected with it and I was sick and felt like crap off and on for 10 days; so what, I was sick that’s what happens. I’ve seen very few, flu shot or not, who don’t feel like garbage when they contract the flu.

You make good points but I've yet to understand the argument that minimizes the significance of Covid based on it being non-lethal in 99.8 percent. I know people who have been sick over a year since being infected, a teenager who can't even play softball 6 weeks later, and a medical person whose career is probably over when Covid caused chronic lung and heart disease.

Compare Covid deaths to car wreck deaths. 40,000 is a bad year. Covid deaths are over 700,000 and the delta wave deaths will continue for the next several weeks.

If 0.02 percent of Neyland Stadium attendees were killed by one event last Saturday, that would equal 204 people, basically both sidelines.

Another way to look at it...6 loaded passenger airlines per day, 7 days per week, would have to crash since the first Covid death to equal what Covid has done. Would anyone get on an airplane if one crashed every day, not to mention 6?

 

[VolGee4]

If the 100 employee mandate goes into effect it’ll be very hard to work elsewhere for many people. Not a lot of employers below that threshold anymore and definitely not enough for myriad of people to make the salaries they may be used to.

Again, that would be a government mandate, which is not something that I am particularly in favor of. However, there are already a bunch of big companies that have issued mandates or variations of a mandate (to work in an office). That will cause people to make a decision.

 

[VolGee4]

Very few issues…in the short term. For all the people who are worried about the unknown,
long term effects of Covid, it amazes me that so few are unworried about the unknown, long term effects of a “vaccine” who’s technology has been around/in the works for 15-20 years yet has never been implemented until now. Most, myself included, aren’t worried about the safety of the vaccine, we just don’t see the point for a virus that’s non-lethal for 99.8% of the population. I just got done being infected with it and I was sick and felt like crap off and on for 10 days; so what, I was sick that’s what happens. I’ve seen very few, flu shot or not, who don’t feel like garbage when they contract the flu.

My wife got the flu one year after getting the flu shot, and her symptoms were very much mitigated. She didn't feel well for a day but never got the chills/fever that is normally associated with it. It's about probabilities. The flu shot is only 40-60% effective each year, but the remaining usually have mitigated symptoms. We really don't truly know adult flu death numbers because states don't have to report them. It's an estimate. But roughly 80% of pediatric flu deaths are unvaccinated, and I get that in the big picture, there are not many pediatric flu deaths per year.

I am in favor of getting a shot because 1. my parents and in-laws are in their 70's all with some health issue (although not life-threatening now) and all of us getting shots adds just more protection; and 2. I would prefer not to see how body reacts if I did get it. I run double digit miles per week, but I also take blood pressure medication. I am also in a business that sees and meets many people in person every week.

 

[MAD]

Very few issues…in the short term. For all the people who are worried about the unknown,
long term effects of Covid, it amazes me that so few are unworried about the unknown, long term effects of a “vaccine” who’s technology has been around/in the works for 15-20 years yet has never been implemented until now. Most, myself included, aren’t worried about the safety of the vaccine, we just don’t see the point for a virus that’s non-lethal for 99.8% of the population. I just got done being infected with it and I was sick and felt like crap off and on for 10 days; so what, I was sick that’s what happens. I’ve seen very few, flu shot or not, who don’t feel like garbage when they contract the flu.

How many people get 'long COVID?' More than half, researchers find. | Penn State University

The investigators noted several trends among survivors, such as:

• General well-being: More than half of all patients reported weight loss, fatigue, fever or pain.
• Mobility: Roughly one in five survivors experienced a decrease in mobility.
• Neurologic concerns: Nearly one in four survivors experienced difficulty concentrating.
• Mental health disorders: Nearly one in three patients were diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorders.
• Lung abnormalities: Six in ten survivors had chest imaging abnormality and more than a quarter of patients had difficulty breathing.
• Cardiovascular issues: Chest pain and palpitations were among the commonly reported conditions.
• Skin conditions: Nearly one in five patients experienced hair loss or rashes.
• Digestive issues: Stomach pain, lack of appetite, diarrhea and vomiting were among the commonly reported conditions.

 

[AthensVol2007]

My wife got the flu one year after getting the flu shot, and her symptoms were very much mitigated. She didn't feel well for a day but never got the chills/fever that is normally associated with it. It's about probabilities. The flu shot is only 40-60% effective each year, but the remaining usually have mitigated symptoms. We really don't truly know adult flu death numbers because states don't have to report them. It's an estimate. But roughly 80% of pediatric flu deaths are unvaccinated, and I get that in the big picture, there are not many pediatric flu deaths per year.

I am in favor of getting a shot because 1. my parents and in-laws are in their 70's all with some health issue (although not life-threatening now) and all of us getting shots adds just more protection; and 2. I would prefer not to see how body reacts if I did get it. I run double digit miles per week, but I also take blood pressure medication. I am also in a business that sees and meets many people in person every week.

I’m the same on the blood pressure medication and was extremely worried early on when they thought that was a leading co-morbidity. Then some research came out that if you were on ACE inhibitors that it may have had a prophylactic affect and actually keep that segment of society “safer”. My hypertension is likely self-induced from smokeless tobacco use, which also spurred some studies on the possible prophylaxis of nicotine. After 19-20 months of not catching it, despite never changing my social life, I believed there was some truth to one if not both of the theories. Then that went away 2 weeks ago and I’m convinced now that everyone is likely going to get it at some point. I’ve seen the lock yourself up for 10 months crowd get it earlier on (my sister-in-law’s family) while my blood side of the family goes 20 months and living life avoid it, only for 2/3 of us to get it in the matter of 6 weeks, despite us living in 3 separate states and not seeing each other.

 

[AthensVol2007]

How many people get 'long COVID?' More than half, researchers find. | Penn State University

The investigators noted several trends among survivors, such as:

• General well-being: More than half of all patients reported weight loss, fatigue, fever or pain.
• Mobility: Roughly one in five survivors experienced a decrease in mobility.
• Neurologic concerns: Nearly one in four survivors experienced difficulty concentrating.
• Mental health disorders: Nearly one in three patients were diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorders.
• Lung abnormalities: Six in ten survivors had chest imaging abnormality and more than a quarter of patients had difficulty breathing.
• Cardiovascular issues: Chest pain and palpitations were among the commonly reported conditions.
• Skin conditions: Nearly one in five patients experienced hair loss or rashes.
• Digestive issues: Stomach pain, lack of appetite, diarrhea and vomiting were among the commonly reported conditions.

“Long Covid” is 18-20 months at this point. And as usual you never consider underlying/pre-existing conditions. I may be screwed for life going forward but I’m willing to bet the odds that I’m not, because for the most part I’m healthy and in relatively good shape overall. However, if I am in fact stuck with health issues from here on out, it was MY choice and MY risk to take. I have to live with MY consequences of MY choice not you or anyone else. You don’t care about MY health or well being (or anyone else for that matte) more than I (or they) do so stop pretending to. There’s two sides to this coin; people say that this whole thing has shed light on the selfishness of society and lack of concern for their fellow man yet it’s also shed light on how much of a nanny society we’ve become, thinking that we somehow have a say so or that our opinion should mean something when it comes to personal decisions made by individuals outside of our circle of influence/concern. If someone chooses to run out and vaccinate their 5 year old tomorrow, sure I’ll think they’re a paranoid idiot, but I won’t tell them to their face and sure as hell won’t attempt to influence their decision and I expect the same standard to be applied to my household and my kid.

 

[MAD]

“Long Covid” is 18-20 months at this point. And as usual you never consider underlying/pre-existing conditions. I may be screwed for life going forward but I’m willing to bet the odds that I’m not, because for the most part I’m healthy and in relatively good shape overall. However, if I am in fact stuck with health issues from here on out, it was MY choice and MY risk to take. I have to live with MY consequences of MY choice not you or anyone else. You don’t care about MY health or well being (or anyone else for that matte) more than I (or they) do so stop pretending to. There’s two sides to this coin; people say that this whole thing has shed light on the selfishness of society and lack of concern for their fellow man yet it’s also shed light on how much of a nanny society we’ve become, thinking that we somehow have a say so or that our opinion should mean something when it comes to personal decisions made by individuals outside of our circle of influence/concern. If someone chooses to run out and vaccinate their 5 year old tomorrow, sure I’ll think they’re a paranoid idiot, but I won’t tell them to their face and sure as hell won’t attempt to influence their decision and I expect the same standard to be applied to my household and my kid.

Not everything is about you. You said “I just got done being infected with it and I was sick and felt like crap off and on for 10 days; so what, I was sick that’s what happens.”
I’m not telling you anything, I’m pointing out that not everyone is as lucky as you.

 

[VolGee4]

I’m the same on the blood pressure medication and was extremely worried early on when they thought that was a leading co-morbidity. Then some research came out that if you were on ACE inhibitors that it may have had a prophylactic affect and actually keep that segment of society “safer”. My hypertension is likely self-induced from smokeless tobacco use, which also spurred some studies on the possible prophylaxis of nicotine. After 19-20 months of not catching it, despite never changing my social life, I believed there was some truth to one if not both of the theories. Then that went away 2 weeks ago and I’m convinced now that everyone is likely going to get it at some point. I’ve seen the lock yourself up for 10 months crowd get it earlier on (my sister-in-law’s family) while my blood side of the family goes 20 months and living life avoid it, only for 2/3 of us to get it in the matter of 6 weeks, despite us living in 3 separate states and not seeing each other.

I don't disagree with really any of that. I was taking Vitamin D before the pandemic because my doctor wanted me to take it, and that helps, too. I believe my hypertension is genetic, and I am also known to spike when I get into the doctor's office. There is no doubt that it is here to stay. I just prefer walking across that street looking both ways as opposed to walking across looking at my phone. IMO, the vaccine makes the probability of having issues that much lower. I have 4 kids, and we definitely spent a year with a different social life, and the one benefit has been far less doctor's bills

 

[AthensVol2007]

Not everything is about you. You said “I just got done being infected with it and I was sick and felt like crap off and on for 10 days; so what, I was sick that’s what happens.”
I’m not telling you anything, I’m pointing out that not everyone is as lucky as you.

But the vast majority are. You struggle mightily with percentages and risk assessment. According to a Stanford study the overall risk of death, which is the only for sure known absolute at this point, for the 35-40 year age bracket is 0.003% while I believe the risk of death for 75+ or 85+ (can’t remember which one they used was like 12%. That’s terrible odds for that age bracket and 40X the chances of my age bracket (the CDC estimates the risk of death at 55x). I’m not sorry to say it and if I’m a terrible human being then so be it and I’ll meet my fate one day but it is about me and my loved ones. It is not my duty to protect every bystander I come across by taking their concerns into consideration when making health decisions for myself and my household. It is my duty to not intentionally harm them which I see as two vastly different things. I’m not going to intentionally cough on someone or go up face to face to someone while knowingly infected just the same as I’m not going to intentionally drive 100 MPH and weave in and out of traffic while doing so. However, I’m also not going to drive 40 instead of 70 because my chances of wrecking and killing someone are diminished at 40 compared to 70. The same as I’m not going to wear a mask indefinitely or get a vaccine that I personally don’t see the need for, just because it diminishes the risk that something MAY happen.