Vols Practice Thread #5

[1vol8]

Idk man but IMO if HB was on our roster right now, he would be our starting QB prob by Midway of the season. I think he's that good. Brian Maurer is talented and brings an extra dimension but Bailey is head and shoulders more developed as a pure passer.

I’m not here to try and change your mind. So Don’t get it twisted. But I have to respectfully disagree. BM is going for the jugular so he’s not taking the “easy” routes as we seen in the SG and outside of the 1 bad decision and another that maybe could’ve been thrown better he couldn’t have handed the ball to them any better. Idk what HB could’ve done that would’ve made the rest of his passes any better. What I do know is HB would have taken a few sacks where BM got away.

If you look at their completion percentages in HS they are about identical but the only difference is BM wasn’t throwing to 4* receivers and as a result there were drops in abundance and quite a few tip drill ints.

 

[sjt18]

I can agree with that. The reason I believe it’s a qb is because his “stats” “ranking” and overall success depends on all 10 players unlike any other position. One guy misses a block and he better have the wheels and pocket presence to get away. One receiver drops a ball and his stats go down. The ball hits a receivers hands and bounces out and it’s his int. No RB and he’s looking at a loaded box all game long or throwing into tighter windows. The list goes on and on.

Truth is that there is no mystery around who the starter will be. There is a competition for #2 right now. That's not a competition for who will occupy the #2 spot on the depth chart necessarily but who they will go to if JG goes down.

IOW's, you can argue this from now on but we won't know anything unless JG gets injured.

 

[VolsSince78]

Maybe it’s because I never played college football, but why is there so much talk about how hard it is? Most of the time they are standing around waiting in line for a rep.

I think the hard part physically is the conditioining- running and weight training. We're just seeing guys taking practice reps. To me, these practice reps are more about staying mentally alert and showing good technique and lots of bounce when your number is called. Now, it does get hot in August in pads. Also, at some point in most of these practices, these guys will come together in team drills, and will be trying to beat the guy across from him instead of acting like blocking dummies.

 

[LittleVol]

I’m not here to try and change your mind. So Don’t get it twisted. But I have to respectfully disagree. BM is going for the jugular so he’s not taking the “easy” routes as we seen in the SG and outside of the 1 bad decision and another that maybe could’ve been thrown better he couldn’t have handed the ball to them any better. Idk what HB could’ve done that would’ve made the rest of his passes any better. What I do know is HB would have taken a few sacks where BM got away.

If you look at their completion percentages in HS they are about identical but the only difference is BM wasn’t throwing to 4* receivers and as a result there were drops in abundance and quite a few tip drill ints.

Harrison Bailey is a great Qb PROSPECT. I'm anxious to see if he can take his team to another level.

They had all that talent at Marietta, but ended up 5-6. They lost to some powerhouses very competitively. However, they were supposed to be a powerhouse themselves. Now he has his Senior year to really prove himself. He has talent all around him again, so let's see what he can do.

They should win state with all that talent. They have enough talent to win in ANY state this year.

 

[sjt18]

Bailey, Maurer, nor Shrout have taken a live CFB snap at this point. Any could be great... any could fold when the lights come on. If HS performance was a deciding factor in college performance, Worley would have been the best QB in UT history.

 

[LittleVol]

Truth is that there is no mystery around who the starter will be. There is a competition for #2 right now. That's not a competition for who will occupy the #2 spot on the depth chart necessarily but who they will go to if JG goes down.

IOW's, you can argue this from now on but we won't know anything unless JG gets injured.

Which is very likely because he holds the ball too long.
Or Chaney will get fed up with momentum-killing offensive 3 and outs from JG and throw in up-tempo with Brian Maurer.

There is one QB on the roster right now that can elevate this team imo.





However...
JG deserves the chance to prove he can be that QB. He has taken a beating and kept fighting. He deserves the chance to show that he can improve.
He has one of the better offensive minds in the conference as his OC.
Senior Wide Receivers who have all made plays in their career.
It's now or never for him.

 

[1vol8]

Degrade? Lol, you need to lighten up.

Yeah, you get on message boards and make all the claims you have. Tell people that can't trust, not just the rankings, but camps, every local beat reporter, the opinion posters formed their own eyes and possibly even the coaches(?)
Because 'you told us otherwise'..

But you think we're questioning you too much and not having a serious debate. Cool.

I don’t mind questioning. What I do mind is 1) putting words in my mouth and 2) trying to make me out to be something I’m not. (Conspiracy Theorist)

I’m sure you along with many others read all off season long how “erratic” and inaccurate BM and JT were in comparison to JG. I was asked shortly after the first practice I attended what I thought of the qbs. My response was: “BM was the most accurate followed closely by JG. JT looked a little erratic at times but when he was on target he was throwing darts. “. “JG should be the clear starter because his experience shows in his decision making.”

The reason I’m telling you this is because that is exactly how it played out in the spring game. Yes BM made a mistake or 2 but his accuracy was on display. Followed by JG and JT was a little erratic at times. I don’t expect you to believe me nor do I care but if you want to keep trusting what you read rather than what you see that’s your prerogative.

Just ask yourself how a kid with over 20 offers goes all around the country working out for several P5 schools and gains every offer of every camp he attended throwing routes on air. Becomes an elite 11 qb and finishes 5th at the opening ranked 18 going in. Comes to UT and Tyson Helton is not the first coach to be quoted saying “His workout was among the best I’ve seen”. Yet the tabloids suggest he’s lost his accuracy since arriving at UT? Buy that if you want to big guy. I’ll stick to logic and my own eyes

 

[1vol8]

Which is very likely because he holds the ball too long.
Or Chaney will get fed up with momentum-killing offensive 3 and outs from JG and throw in up-tempo with Brian Maurer.

There is one QB on the roster right now that can elevate this team imo.





However...
JG deserves the chance to prove he can be that QB. He has taken a beating and kept fighting. He deserves the chance to show that he can improve.
He has one of the better offensive minds in the conference as his OC.
Senior Wide Receivers who have all made plays in their career.
It's now or never for him.

Be careful man. I’m already getting hammered for my opinions. Go figure

 

[LittleVol]

Bailey, Maurer, nor Shrout have taken a live CFB snap at this point. Any could be great... any could fold when the lights come on. If HS performance was a deciding factor in college performance, Worley would have been the best QB in UT history.

So what they haven't taken a college snap?
All they've had the opportunity to play is high school. You can still gauge if they'll be good or not.
And Worely despite his gaudy numbers and USA today Offensive POY, was still ranked a marginal prospect. He's actually the perfect example of that. He absolutely lived up to his ranking in college. The scouts were spot on with him...

Brain Maurer is the best in-game QB on the roster right now.

 

[1vol8]

Bailey, Maurer, nor Shrout have taken a live CFB snap at this point. Any could be great... any could fold when the lights come on. If HS performance was a deciding factor in college performance, Worley would have been the best QB in UT history.

I think it’s obvious if nothing else that Maurer gets better when the lights come on.

 

[sjt18]

Which is very likely because he holds the ball too long.

Make that past tense... and we can agree. Chaney worked in the spring to speed him up. I'm sure it is a point of emphasis now. The OL should improve. If what he endured over the past two years both by his own and the OL's making didn't knock him out... he'll probably keep getting up.

Or Chaney will get fed up with momentum-killing offensive 3 and outs from JG and throw in up-tempo with Brian Maurer.

There is one QB on the roster right now that can elevate this team imo.

If JG doesn't improve then UT is in trouble this year. Big trouble.

What do you base this confidence in BM on? He did some good things in the Spring Game but he also did some bad things. It was pretty obvious he was nowhere near being someone UT wants to start. That's not a knock... he just needs more time to learn and develop. What we saw was very limited. Up tempo still requires that you take care of the ball and BM didn't show that he could yet.

However...
JG deserves the chance to prove he can be that QB. He has taken a beating and kept fighting. He deserves the chance to show that he can improve.
He has one of the better offensive minds in the conference as his OC.
Senior Wide Receivers who have all made plays in their career.
It's now or never for him.

JG deserves what he earns and nothing more. I agree he needs to step up. He has the talent. He has the coaches. He has the help. He's had the time and development. He should have a much improved OL.

Frankly, I think he will take a good step forward.

 

[LittleVol]

Be careful man. I’m already getting hammered for my opinions. Go figure

It's all good.

 

[1vol8]

It's all good.

This s*** aggravates me with some people. If BM were a 4* or better people like us wouldn’t have to argue an opinion but rather just have a pleasant football conversation.

 

[sjt18]

So what they haven't taken a college snap?
All they've had the opportunity to play is high school. You can still gauge if they'll be good or not.

No. Being good in HS isn't a guaranteed indicator of being good in college. It just isn't. The "so what" is that college players are ALL as good as the 3 or 4 best players these guys faced throughout their whole HS career.

Years ago, I remember Heath Shuler talking about the speed of the game transition from HS to college. His head spun for awhile. They gave him a tutor to help him learn the playbook. Except for a handful of really elite guys... it takes some development to make the transition.

And Worely despite his gaudy numbers and USA today Offensive POY, was still ranked a marginal prospect. He's actually the perfect example of that. He absolutely lived up to his ranking in college. The scouts were spot on with him...

Yet you argue that BM's rankings are not an indicator? You aren't being consistent.

Worley might have been a really good college QB if he hadn't been caught up in UT's mess. We'll never know.

Brain Maurer is the best in-game QB on the roster right now.

You have literally nothing to base that on unless you are a coach attending practice and watching all of the video. Nothing he did in HS comes close to what Worley did. Worley was a VERY "cerebral" HS QB.

You have the spring game in which he ran a limited version of the O and made too many mistakes. He showed some flashes but that doesn't make him the best "in-game" QB. He's never played in a college game... so there's simply nothing on which to base that claim.

 

[LittleVol]

This s*** aggravates me with some people. If BM were a 4* or better people like us wouldn’t have to argue an opinion but rather just have a pleasant football conversation.

His play will do the talking.

And everyone will be happy.

 

[sjt18]

I think it’s obvious if nothing else that Maurer gets better when the lights come on.

Really? How is it "obvious" seeing he hasn't taken a snap in CFB yet?

JG was a great HS QB. He posted great numbers and looked like a man among boys. If you want to compare their HS careers... JG will be just as impressive if not more. So you are left with the spring game. BM did some good things. He also made some mistakes running a limited playbook.

He's not ready. I hope UT doesn't have to play him.... for his sake as much as anything else.

PS- there were JG fans saying the exact same thing his Fr year... with Dobbs still on the roster.

 

[LittleVol]

No. Being good in HS isn't a guaranteed indicator of being good in college. It just isn't. The "so what" is that college players are ALL as good as the 3 or 4 best players these guys faced throughout their whole HS career.

Years ago, I remember Heath Shuler talking about the speed of the game transition from HS to college. His head spun for awhile. They gave him a tutor to help him learn the playbook. Except for a handful of really elite guys... it takes some development to make the transition.

Yet you argue that BM's rankings are not an indicator? You aren't being consistent.

Worley might have been a really good college QB if he hadn't been caught up in UT's mess. We'll never know.

You have literally nothing to base that on unless you are a coach attending practice and watching all of the video. Nothing he did in HS comes close to what Worley did. Worley was a VERY "cerebral" HS QB.

You have the spring game in which he ran a limited version of the O and made too many mistakes. He showed some flashes but that doesn't make him the best "in-game" QB. He's never played in a college game... so there's simply nothing on which to base that claim.

Well,
This is all mostly true. But I'm still going to be right when he gets his chance.

And the rankings aren't always right. Maurer was vastly underrated. Worley Bird's was spot on imo.

And as far as 'hoping" JG will finally learn how to play QB...I mean, they're all UT QBs.
May the best best man win!

 

[sjt18]

Well,
This is all mostly true. But I'm still going to be right when he gets his chance.

And the rankings aren't always right. Maurer was vastly underrated. Worley Bird's was spot on imo.

And as far as 'hoping" JG will finally learn how to play QB...I mean, they're all UT QBs.
May the best best man win!

You could be right. But you're guessing. You don't have a basis for making the ironclad statements you're making. We can all be excited about BM's potential but he's no closer to being as ready as you think he is than JG has been as close to greatness as k-town thinks he's been.

PS- I don't think a guy's rankings should limit him. Dak Prescott was a 3* or maybe 2*.

 

[1vol8]

No. Being good in HS isn't a guaranteed indicator of being good in college. It just isn't. The "so what" is that college players are ALL as good as the 3 or 4 best players these guys faced throughout their whole HS career.

Years ago, I remember Heath Shuler talking about the speed of the game transition from HS to college. His head spun for awhile. They gave him a tutor to help him learn the playbook. Except for a handful of really elite guys... it takes some development to make the transition.

Yet you argue that BM's rankings are not an indicator? You aren't being consistent.

Worley might have been a really good college QB if he hadn't been caught up in UT's mess. We'll never know.

You have literally nothing to base that on unless you are a coach attending practice and watching all of the video. Nothing he did in HS comes close to what Worley did. Worley was a VERY "cerebral" HS QB.

You have the spring game in which he ran a limited version of the O and made too many mistakes. He showed some flashes but that doesn't make him the best "in-game" QB. He's never played in a college game... so there's simply nothing on which to base that claim.

I think his point is his ceiling is higher and he’s obviously a gamer. If we sit back and level with ourselves on what he showed he needs to improve the list is short. He needs more weight and time to adjust to the speed of the game which will in turn correct his decision making. I’m still not convinced that second int was a bad throw or decision but being a 3* people see it differently.

 

[sjt18]

I think his point is his ceiling is higher and he’s obviously a gamer.

Neither of those things can be proven by anything we've seen. By definition, they aren't "obvious". You can assume it. You can believe it. You can feel it. But all we have in real tangible "proof" is the time he split with Shrout in the Spring game. Nothing in those 30 or so plays proves what you and Littlevol are claiming.

If we sit back and level with ourselves on what he showed he needs to improve the list is short. He needs more weight and time to adjust to the speed of the game which will in turn correct his decision making. I’m still not convinced that second int was a bad throw or decision but being a 3* people see it differently.

I don't care about his ranking. You can drop that line of argument with me.

The list isn't short. He wasn't running as much of the O as JG and that even with them limiting the playbook. If he were going to be the starter then the coaches would focus solely on accelerating his learning curve. He's going to get a normal rate of learning.

The other things you list aren't a "short list". They are parts of the things needed for a guy who isn't ready to get ready. Decisionmaking and spending the hours in the film room to learn how to read and react to defenses isn't a thing you shortcut.

I loved his instinctive movement in the pocket. He has a nice arm but needs to be more consistent. But mentally... it is simply going to take more time. Barring injury, he isn't likely to catch JG. If he beats Shrout out then we'll see a good 3 way battle in a couple of years.

 

[1vol8]

Really? How is it "obvious" seeing he hasn't taken a snap in CFB yet?

JG was a great HS QB. He posted great numbers and looked like a man among boys. If you want to compare their HS careers... JG will be just as impressive if not more. So you are left with the spring game. BM did some good things. He also made some mistakes running a limited playbook.

He's not ready. I hope UT doesn't have to play him.... for his sake as much as anything else.

PS- there were JG fans saying the exact same thing his Fr year... with Dobbs still on the roster.

I won’t disagree that he’s not ready. But it’s obvious he’s a gamer for reasons beyond the eye test. He was in front of the biggest crowd he’s ever played in front of, first time on a college field, taking his first snaps as a college qb for a major P5 program and nothing phased him. That’s exactly how he looked in Hs. He had to take chances like the ones we seen to give his team ANY chance to win. But the working the pocket, escaping pressure, throwing on the run or from the pocket.... that was BM at his finest. Like I said the 1st int was a terrible decision the second one wasn’t. So I can’t agree that he made more than 1 mistake when he gave his receiver a chance that he didn’t take.

 

[sjt18]

I won’t disagree that he’s not ready. But it’s obvious he’s a gamer for reasons beyond the eye test. He was in front of the biggest crowd he’s ever played in front of, first time on a college field, taking his first snaps as a college qb for a major P5 program and nothing phased him. That’s exactly how he looked in Hs. He had to take chances like the ones we seen to give his team ANY chance to win. But the working the pocket, escaping pressure, throwing on the run or from the pocket.... that was BM at his finest. Like I said the 1st int was a terrible decision the second one wasn’t. So I can’t agree that he made more than 1 mistake when he gave his receiver a chance that he didn’t take.

You keep saying it is "obvious" when there isn't anything obvious about it. You're a BM fan. I get that. But just because you are reading things into what you saw... thinking it was unique when it really wasn't... doesn't make it "obvious".

The first time JG stepped out in the O&W game he performed very well. That didn't make him a "gamer" or anything else. It simply meant in a limited scrimmage environment... he performed well. Same for Maurer. Same for many QB's over the last 25 years or so.

For that matter, Ainge's spring game in the 2006 was nothing short of horrible. People here were sure Crompton would be the starter no later than mid-season. Fact is... folks didn't understand what they were seeing. Ainge's first time out that fall he ripped a really good Cal team and never looked back. Reading as much as you are into 30 or so plays... isn't wise.

 

[1vol8]

You keep saying it is "obvious" when there isn't anything obvious about it. You're a BM fan. I get that. But just because you are reading things into what you saw... thinking it was unique when it really wasn't... doesn't make it "obvious".

The first time JG stepped out in the O&W game he performed very well. That didn't make him a "gamer" or anything else. It simply meant in a limited scrimmage environment... he performed well. Same for Maurer. Same for many QB's over the last 25 years or so.

For that matter, Ainge's spring game in the 2006 was nothing short of horrible. People here were sure Crompton would be the starter no later than mid-season. Fact is... folks didn't understand what they were seeing. Ainge's first time out that fall he ripped a really good Cal team and never looked back. Reading as much as you are into 30 or so plays... isn't wise.

Ok. You’re probably right. I think it’s obvious because I watched him for years in HS. So maybe it’s “obvious” to me where it wouldn’t be to someone who hasn’t.

 

[sjt18]

Ok. You’re probably right. I think it’s obvious because I watched him for years in HS. So maybe it’s “obvious” to me where it wouldn’t be to someone who hasn’t.

I had the privilege of watching Heath Shuler's HS career. He did some absolutely amazing things. He was a legit 4.5 40 QB and ran the 110m hurdles at a state competitive time... and probably had the strongest throwing arm in UT history.... and accurate. All at 6'3", 225.

He was thankful to be able to sit behind Andy Kelly for a year before being the starter.

He was born out of time. If he had played in the era of the read option and Dual Threat QB... there's really no telling what kind of numbers he would have had.

 

[1vol8]

I had the privilege of watching Heath Shuler's HS career. He did some absolutely amazing things. He was a legit 4.5 40 QB and ran the 110m hurdles at a state competitive time... and probably had the strongest throwing arm in UT history.... and accurate. All at 6'3", 225.

He was thankful to be able to sit behind Andy Kelly for a year before being the starter.

He was born out of time. If he had played in the era of the read option and Dual Threat QB... there's really no telling what kind of numbers he would have had.

So you understand my position on BM from personal experience. I’m sure you knew well before anyone what he was likely to be at the next level because you got to see it first hand.