Vols BBall team might surprise you this season.

#101
#101
BigZiti09 said:
We could win by 50 against Duke or lose by 50 to Carson Newman and K-town is going to have the same response: "Donnie Tyndall sucked and his offense was terrible."
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It's silly to think all he cares about is points scored. That tells us very little in terms of efficiency
 
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#102
#102
BruinVol said:
K-town

It doesn't matter how many touches??

You are aware that the other team has exactly the same amount of touches we have correct?

Surely you are smart enough to realize that.
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So if we score 12-15 more ppg this year, without J Rich, you won't think the offense is better unless all the advanced stats are better? I'm all for analytics but sometimes good old fashioned stats are better.
 
#103
#103
BigZiti09 said:
We could win by 50 against Duke or lose by 50 to Carson Newman and K-town is going to have the same response: "Donnie Tyndall sucked and his offense was terrible."
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He did and it was. No question about it.

BruinVol said:
And an exhibition team scored 83 on us this year. Which would have been 2nd in points given up all of last year

You see there is a flip side to scoring more points. Shockingly, I guess, the other team gets the ball when we don't have it.
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I'm talking strictly o. We are better.

The d was terrible last year, its still bad.

My point is that slowing down the game when you have an undersized, guard heavy team is horrible, dumb ** coaching strategy. You won't be successful that way. With a higher tempo we at least make an NIT last year.
 
#104
#104
k-town_king said:
So if we score 12-15 more ppg this year, without J Rich, you won't think the offense is better unless all the advanced stats are better? I'm all for analytics but sometimes good old fashioned stats are better.
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Points per Possession is what I will judge by because I realize more pace means more points given up. It's all relative.


We scored right at 1pt per possession last year.

We gave up just over 1pt per possession.


So far we are worse on offense and better on defense.

2 games isn't enough to judge for sure but yes that is the stat that matters to me.

This year we are 185th in offensive efficiency. Last year we were 20places better.
 
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#105
#105
k-town_king said:
My point is that slowing down the game when you have an undersized, guard heavy team is horrible, dumb ** coaching strategy. You won't be successful that way. With a higher tempo we at least make an NIT last year.
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I think a 3/4 QT press that is designed to slow the game down and dropping back into a 2-3 zone is a brilliant way to mask the deficiencies of being undersized on defense. The 30sec clock would play into a lot of rushed shots late in the shot clock.

So fast pace isn't as clear cut as one might think unless allowing a big man to have 20 before halftime is something we want allow to regularly.
 
#106
#106
k-town_king said:
So if we score 12-15 more ppg this year, without J Rich, you won't think the offense is better unless all the advanced stats are better? I'm all for analytics but sometimes good old fashioned stats are better.
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Would 14 more possessions per game this season make any difference in the scoring if we shot at the same percentage?
 
#108
#108
BruinVol said:
I think a 3/4 QT press that is designed to slow the game down and dropping back into a 2-3 zone is a brilliant way to mask the deficiencies of being undersized on defense. The 30sec clock would play into a lot of rushed shots late in the shot clock.

So fast pace isn't as clear cut as one might think unless allowing a big man to have 20 before halftime is something we want allow to regularly.
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The offensive and defensive schemes were horrible. The zone stopped no one. They shot and hit a million threes. How many players had career highs versus us last year? I lost count. It was almost every game someone went off and scored 20 something on us.

The offense, well just look at the stats.

Barnes plays some zone also. He is just not dumb enough to play one no matter what like Tyndull was.
 
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#109
#109
k-town_king said:
Barnes plays some zone also. He is just not dumb enough to play one no matter what like Tyndull was.
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If Barnes plays some zone, which we have heard he would, why in the hell didn't he last night?

One post guy was killing us on the block and they shot 10% from 3. Seemed pretty damn stubborn to me that we didn't try it
 
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#110
#110
k-town_king said:
The offensive and defensive schemes were horrible. The zone stopped no one. They shot and hit a million threes. How many players had career highs versus us last year? I lost count. It was almost every game someone went off and scored 20 something on us.
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Since you brought up last year and all you care about is the good old fashion stat of points scored.

We were 4th in the SEC in points allowed last year

Very solid place to finish.

Where do you think this team finishes in that stat?
 
#111
#111
BruinVol said:
Since you brought up last year and all you care about is the good old fashion stat of points scored.

We were 4th in the SEC in points allowed last year

Very solid place to finish.

Where do you think this team finishes in that stat?
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Like I have been saying the offense is better. The defense is bad and was horrible last year too.

I prefer scoring margin to ppg against. If we average about 77 and opponents average 68 I will consider that a better defensive performance than scoring 63.3 and giving up 64.4. The other team has more chance to score when you have a faster paced game. You will give up more points.

When you run the shot clock down and play turtle ball the other team is not going to score a bunch of points even when you defense sucks. That is what happened last year.
 
#112
#112
I like this team. They are scrappy and play hard. Missed several layups and big free throws toward the end but once they get in the swing of things those shots will fall. Not to mention, did I see Coach Barnes actually arguing with an official at some point of the game??!! Very refreshing for sure. GO VOLS!
 
#113
#113
k-town_king said:
I prefer scoring margin to ppg against. If we average about 77 and opponents average 68 I will consider that a better defensive performance than scoring 63.3 and giving up 64.4. The other team has more chance to score when you have a faster paced game. You will give up more points.
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So we are switching to scoring margin as your measuring stick. I can buy that if you want to Change.

We are +1pt so far this year. Just a tad too early to be calling that the Improvement you are so anxious to declare
 
#114
#114
BruinVol said:
So we are switching to scoring margin as your measuring stick. I can buy that if you want to Change.

We are +1pt so far this year. Just a tad too early to be calling that the Improvement you are so anxious to declare
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I look at it all. I think we will score about 12 more ppg at least. I think we have a positive scoring margin. To me that says way better on offense.

I also think some things you didn't like are more on some players making bad decisions. A lot of one on one with open teammates. They need to learn what is a good shot. After being handcuffed last year they are figuring it out.
 
#115
#115
k-town_king said:
I look at it all. I think we will score about 12 more ppg at least. I think we have a positive scoring margin. To me that says way better on offense.

I also think some things you didn't like are more on some players making bad decisions. A lot of one on one with open teammates. They need to learn what is a good shot. After being handcuffed last year they are figuring it out.
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I have a high tolerance for mistakes like moore had trying to make a special pass on the break in the 2nd half. I am willing to take the good with the bad as long as there is extreme effort. Last night we saw that.

My biggest worry is what happens when the pace slows down. Can we score with X/Os and last night we couldn't at all.
 
#116
#116
The problem for these Vols is that they need to play many more games before they'll be better at all the things they're not good at right now. Unfortunately, all our upcoming opponents will have gotten better by that time too.
 
#117
#117
As I've said before, you can score more points than the other team and win, or you can allow less points than the other team and win, there's different styles, neither is wrong.

Clearly Barnes feels that our best chance to efficiently score is by pushing the tempo, that is to say that Barnes feels fast paced offense paired with a so-so defense is likely to result in more wins than a slow paced offense and a so-so defense.

The stat that will prove who is right and wrong won't be available for another ~4 months, and that's wins and losses. If this team win 12 games playing this way, it probably was the wrong strategy, if they win 16+ games playing this style, then I think it was the right play.

Yes we were lacking in assists, but guess how many more assists we have if we shoot a better percentage? As the old saying goes, the offense looks a lot better in person and on paper if some shots fall, simple as that sounds it is true.
 
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#118
#118
bleedingTNorange said:
The stat that will prove who is right and wrong won't be available for another ~4 months, and that's wins and losses. If this team win 12 games playing this way, it probably was the wrong strategy, if they win 16+ games playing this style, then I think it was the right play.
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16-17 wins would be a push when considering this question.

18 wins would be declared a success but with this schedule I don't see 17 wins being anything but right on par.

15 a failure


Last nights defense gives me real hope we can do more than just outscore some teams
 
#119
#119
I don't think they get 10 wins. I do like the style of play by Barnes but he is an armed conflict carrying a potato gun.
 
#121
#121
BruinVol said:
If Barnes plays some zone, which we have heard he would, why in the hell didn't he last night?
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This team has sat back in a zone defense for a whole year. Barnes knows that this team has to learn to defend man to man right now early in the season or they will never be able to. He would not be doing them any favors at this point in the season by bailing them out and putting them in a zone until this teams mentality changes on the defensive side of the court.
 
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#122
#122
allvol21 said:
This team has sat back in a zone defense for a whole year. Barnes knows that this team has to learn to defend man to man right now early in the season or they will never be able to. He would not be doing them any favors at this point in the season by bailing them out and putting them in a zone until this teams mentality changes on the defensive side of the court.
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I get that stance and very much agree with it in the 2 non counting games but a game like last night I think playing to win is more important than making a point.

JMO
 
#125
#125
BruinVol said:
I get that stance and very much agree with it in the 2 non counting games but a game like last night I think playing to win is more important than making a point.

JMO
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I see that side of it as well. I just think that he is completely sold out right now to make this team defend man to man and that is what he has used his time doing in practice during this early season. I really think it's safe to say if we play this game in January and it went the same way we would have see some zone. I know you are not one of them but many on here think you can just call out a zone and your team knows their position, coverage's, and rotations. It takes time in practice to work it that we haven't had yet.
 
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