Vn freedom!

#226
#226
GAVol said:
I have to remind myself all the time that I'm old by VN standards. You literally have to be in your late 30s to have a recollection of anything remotely as bad as what we've experienced the past couple of years.
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Just keep telling yourself "by VN standards" and it will all work out, old man. I turned 40 this year....
 
#227
#227
vol_in_il said:
Larry, give us a name of a recruit that didn't come to Tennessee, or a coach that was fired over Message Board Chatter
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I never said that. read what I said...

the point, to summarize for you, is that recruits are hearing from other coaches that the staff is likely only going to be here for one more year. that is one factor, not the only factor, in recruits turning away from Tennessee. If you read, I said it was not just message boards. it is the reaction of fans wanting or predicting a change via different communication venues..

like many things via public communications, the receivers only interpret things they hear or read to suit their own thinking or beliefs..

again, this is nothing new. its been going on since long before message boards. it has been effective as long as there as been college recruiting. when the support of a sitting coach is in question, it has a negative impact on recuriting.
 
#228
#228
GmanTN said:
I've never understood how an adult would feel it is acceptable to bad mouth a kid
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I'm a recruiting junkie. It is a hobbie. We shuffle thru 300 kids every year and try to select the best 25 for the Vols. Can't speak for the others, but I think that Damien is a very good player. But when you slotted him with our other committments, he was in that 26-30 range. So to justify that reasoning, you have to point out his areas of weakness. Not going to go thru that all again, but I think of it as bad-mouthing with a positive spin.

Once again, I am sorry. I never dreamed that anything said on here might have any tiny bit of actual influence on a young man's decision. I am refraining from offering anything but positives until Feb 2.
 
#230
#230
Jackson_Harris said:
I'm a recruiting junkie. It is a hobbie. We shuffle thru 300 kids every year and try to select the best 25 for the Vols. Can't speak for the others, but I think that Damien is a very good player. But when you slotted him with our other committments, he was in that 26-30 range. So to justify that reasoning, you have to point out his areas of weakness. Not going to go thru that all again, but I think of it as bad-mouthing with a positive spin.

Once again, I am sorry. I never dreamed that anything said on here might have any tiny bit of actual influence on a young man's decision. I am refraining from offering anything but positives until Feb 2.
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Unless your voice is the voice of the program then you are only voicing your opinion. I personally do not see a positive spin when you speak negative about a kid.
 
#231
#231
GmanTN said:
I think the lack of having senior leadership hurt us on the road, for most players it was their first time playing away from Neyland and without having that leadership on the field it hurt this team, not to mention the injuries.
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Yeah, combine that up with the talk about those of us older VN posters. The Kentucky lose was bad but I don't even have it in my top-10 all time. It was just two bad teams playing and it went their way. We were only 7 point favorites on the road. Happens every weekend. At least the kids were in there fighting to the end.

Going on the road and getting blown out 49-7, or whatever it was/, at Arky bothers me more because they laid down. This team really needs it's leaders to step forward. And I look at the roster and don't know where that is going to come from. Maybe Bullard on the O side; hopefully Herman for the D.
 
#232
#232
LWSVOL said:
I never said that. read what I said...

the point, to summarize for you, is that recruits are hearing from other coaches that the staff is likely only going to be here for one more year. that is one factor, not the only factor, in recruits turning away from Tennessee. If you read, I said it was not just message boards. it is the reaction of fans wanting or predicting a change via different communication venues..

like many things via public communications, the receivers only interpret things they hear or read to suit their own thinking or beliefs..

again, this is nothing new. its been going on since long before message boards. it has been effective as long as there as been college recruiting. when the support of a sitting coach is in question, it has a negative impact on recuriting.
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Negative recruiting is a combination of what coaches say to the recruit and how they can back their points up by whatever means. Message boards are down on that list IMO but used for certain. I have stated that I think the local kids are effected the most because of the media, word of mouth, message boards, ect. Simply put they hear the negative more than a kid from out of state. It all adds up and puts doubt when a kid is building trust with the coaches.
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#233
#233
Lexvol said:
Just keep telling yourself "by VN standards" and it will all work out, old man. I turned 40 this year....
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Dont remind me. I'm starting to get strange looks at stop lights when my radio is too loud.
 
#235
#235
GmanTN said:
Unless your voice is the voice of the program then you are only voicing your opinion. I personally do not see a positive spin when you speak negative about a kid.
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Ok, let's use George Bullock as an example because kicking is easy to talk about. He has a strong leg. No doubt. However, we can then say the following of two options...

1) He can't hit the side of a barn. Is that speaking negative of a kid? We have the data to back it up...he missed four extra points and 4-5 field goals.

2) Or we can say...perhaps his accuracy will improve once he signs with the Vols

Or are you saying that we should only say that he has a strong leg and leave it at that?

Edit: Meant to add, my voice is certainty not the voice of the program. I am just average Joe Fan.
 
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#238
#238
BruinVol said:
Negative recruiting is a combination of what coaches say to the recruit and how they can back their points up by whatever means. Message boards are down on that list IMO but used for certain. I have stated that I think the local kids are effected the most because of the media, word of mouth, message boards, ect. Simply put they hear the negative more than a kid from out of state. It all adds up and puts doubt when a kid is building trust with the coaches.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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message boards are not down as far as you would think. I've seen print outs of message board posts crying for our coaches to be fired / replaced, etc. Was given to our coaches from recruits that had gotten it from coaches at other schools.

it is an easy piece of documentation to get hold of and show recruits. shows many different people asking for the same thing. impresses recruits and delivers the message. All you do is get a few lower staff members to print off threads on multiple sites and hand over to coaches before they hit the road.

I've seen many pages from several years ago.. one of the better recruiters on staff was telling me they were getting killed with it.. every recruit he was seeing had it (post 2005 season specifically)

I don't believe for a minute that is only reason that turns recruits away. just one factor and it is used. and it is easy to get the information and use it.. very easy..
 
#239
#239
Jackson_Harris said:
Ok, let's use George Bullock as an example because kicking is easy to talk about. He has a strong leg. No doubt. However, we can then say the following of two options...

1) He can't hit the side of a barn. Is that speaking negative of a kid? We have the data to back it up...he missed four extra points and 4-5 field goals.
2) Or we can say...perhaps his accuracy will improve once he signs with the Vols

Or are you saying that we should only say that he has a strong leg and leave it at that?

Edit: Meant to add, my voice is certainty not the voice of the program. I am just average Joe Fan.
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Why not say strong leg but accuracy is a concern
 
#240
#240
LWSVOL said:
message boards are not down as far as you would think. I've seen print outs of message board posts crying for our coaches to be fired / replaced, etc. Was given to our coaches from recruits that had gotten it from coaches at other schools.

it is an easy piece of documentation to get hold of and show recruits. shows many different people asking for the same thing. impresses recruits and delivers the message. All you do is get a few lower staff members to print off threads on multiple sites and hand over to coaches before they hit the road.

I've seen many pages from several years ago.. one of the better recruiters on staff was telling me they were getting killed with it.. every recruit he was seeing had it (post 2005 season specifically)

I don't believe for a minute that is only reason that turns recruits away. just one factor and it is used. and it is easy to get the information and use it.. very easy..
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Larry you and I have said the same thing in this post. I was bombarded by insults saying what you say. I appreciate your info very much. The threads "How many wins" and "Will DD be canned midseason" are the two threads that would be front and center of my recruiting packet if I was trying to drive home the point DD is in serious trouble. The point is its something visual the recruits can see and take home to keep. Much more effective than words only.
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#243
#243
LWSVOL said:
message boards are not down as far as you would think. I've seen print outs of message board posts crying for our coaches to be fired / replaced, etc. Was given to our coaches from recruits that had gotten it from coaches at other schools.

it is an easy piece of documentation to get hold of and show recruits. shows many different people asking for the same thing. impresses recruits and delivers the message. All you do is get a few lower staff members to print off threads on multiple sites and hand over to coaches before they hit the road.

I've seen many pages from several years ago.. one of the better recruiters on staff was telling me they were getting killed with it.. every recruit he was seeing had it (post 2005 season specifically)

I don't believe for a minute that is only reason that turns recruits away. just one factor and it is used. and it is easy to get the information and use it.. very easy..
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Larry wouldn't you agree that a staff that would use tactics such as that could in fact fabricate fan unrest by commenting themselves on message boards? The problem takes care of itself if the staff handles their business on the field.

I would also argue that the handling of the media hasn't helped perceptions. You can do things however you want if you are winning but if you act like a pompous ass and lose, the media will eviscerate you sooner. I think Dooley has cleaned up the program and helped the media image in that respect but he could do more to defuse some of the media criticism.
 
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#244
#244
LWSVOL said:
message boards are not down as far as you would think. I've seen print outs of message board posts crying for our coaches to be fired / replaced, etc. Was given to our coaches from recruits that had gotten it from coaches at other schools.

it is an easy piece of documentation to get hold of and show recruits. shows many different people asking for the same thing. impresses recruits and delivers the message. All you do is get a few lower staff members to print off threads on multiple sites and hand over to coaches before they hit the road.

I've seen many pages from several years ago.. one of the better recruiters on staff was telling me they were getting killed with it.. every recruit he was seeing had it (post 2005 season specifically)

I don't believe for a minute that is only reason that turns recruits away. just one factor and it is used. and it is easy to get the information and use it.. very easy..
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BruinVol said:
Larry you and I have said the same thing in this post. I was bombarded by insults saying what you say. I appreciate your info very much. The threads "How many wins" and "Will DD be canned midseason" are the two threads that would be front and center of my recruiting packet if I was trying to drive home the point DD is in serious trouble. The point is its something visual the recruits can see and take home to keep. Much more effective than words only.
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If a recruit could have watched UT this past season and not have come to the conclusion that Dooley is on the hot seat in 2012 and had better produce or he is gone, then said recruit is a blockhead.

We went 1-7 in the conference, 5-7 overall, lost to a UK team without a QB, and Hart came out and said that he was disgusted in the product on the field.

If the message boards have more influence over a recruit than all that, than I am at a loss for words. Our team and our coaching staff were absolutely pathetic in 2011, this much is obvious.
 
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#245
#245
Jackson_Harris said:
Ok, I do understand what you are saying and I do think that you make a valid point. Will do a better job in selecting words that are less harsh.
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Jackson,

You need to understand that for you it is a hobby, for these kids its their dream to play college football and have invested a lot of time in getting to the point where schools show interest in them. For these kids they are at a make it or break point and if their desire is to get a free education doing something they enjoy it is not your place to offer negative remarks on their performance. I assure you for those that read it about themselves they are not going to be very happy with you and will take it to heart to a extent and harbor harsh feelings.
 
#246
#246
therealUT said:
If a recruit could have watched UT this past season and not have come to the conclusion that Dooley is on the hot seat in 2012 and had better produce or he is gone, then said recruit is a blockhead.

We went 1-7 in the conference, 5-7 overall, lost to a UK team without a QB, and Hart came out and said that he was disgusted in the product on the field.

If the message boards have more influence over a recruit than all that, than I am at a loss for words. Our team and our coaching staff were absolutely pathetic in 2011, this much is obvious.
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How on earth do we have any commitments at this point? Kids just don't understand as much as we the fans do!
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#247
#247
therealUT said:
If a recruit could have watched UT this past season and not have come to the conclusion that Dooley is on the hot seat in 2012 and had better produce or he is gone, then said recruit is a blockhead.

We went 1-7 in the conference, 5-7 overall, lost to a UK team without a QB, and Hart came out and said that he was disgusted in the product on the field.

If the message boards have more influence over a recruit than all that, than I am at a loss for words. Our team and our coaching staff were absolutely pathetic in 2011, this much is obvious.
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"I think you do have to be realistic because I think Derek and Cuonzo [Martin] and Dave [Serrano], they are facing rebuilding projects," Hart said. "This is not a magic wand, snap your fingers, it's fixed and let's move down the road. I think part of the success I've witnessed over the years being a part of those programs that have had a lot of success, they had a great foundation, they had resources, they built an expectation of success and confidence within those programs.

"I think this, we're not young anymore in football. We're not young anymore. While it is realistic and it is factual to say that we have fielded an inexperienced team the last year or two, we're not going to field inexperienced teams anymore. Those are the kinds of things you have to sit down, talk about and assess. I have thoroughly enjoyed Derek Dooley. I think Derek Dooley has the skill sets to be a highly successful coach."

The above was from the Hart interview and he never said he was disgusted with the team.
 
#248
#248
DaddyChad said:
Larry wouldn't you agree that a staff that would use tactics such as that could in fact fabricate fan unrest by commenting themselves on message boards? The problem takes care of itself if the staff handles their business on the field.

I would also argue that the handling of the media hasn't helped perceptions. You can do things however you want if you are winning but if you act like a pompous ass and lose the media will eviscerate you sooner. I think Dooley has cleaned up the program and helped the media image it that respect but he could do more to defuse some of the media criticism.
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sure they could have people doing that. I don't disagree with anything you said.
 
#249
#249
GmanTN said:
Jackson,

You need to understand that for you it is a hobby, for these kids its their dream to play college football and have invested a lot of time in getting to the point where schools show interest in them. For these kids they are at a make it or break point and if their desire is to get a free education doing something they enjoy it is not your place to offer negative remarks on their performance. I assure you for those that read it about themselves they are not going to be very happy with you and will take it to heart to a extent and harbor harsh feelings.
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I understand
 
#250
#250
therealUT said:
If a recruit could have watched UT this past season and not have come to the conclusion that Dooley is on the hot seat in 2012 and had better produce or he is gone, then said recruit is a blockhead.

We went 1-7 in the conference, 5-7 overall, lost to a UK team without a QB, and Hart came out and said that he was disgusted in the product on the field. (I agree that the reported articles with this commemt has very likely been shown to recruits by opponents. LWS)

If the message boards have more influence over a recruit than all that, than I am at a loss for words. Our team and our coaching staff were absolutely pathetic in 2011, this much is obvious.
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never said anything about message boards being more. sure, watching the season was a factor and made other staffs jobs easier in turning recruits heads, that is pretty logical.

print outs from message baords do something that the print media, radio/TV, the season, and various other medium cannot do.

it produces volume. schools can pull many days and many different people with the same themes. then you add in 10-12 different schools / recruiters (EVERYONE DOES THIS. NOT UNIQUE AS A PROCESS VERSUS TENNESSEE ONLY) showing different people from different sites, then the volume can work to turn someone. that in addition to many other venues..

someone asked for a specific recruit. Xavier Lee was being recruited by Tennessee (Signed with FSU in 2004 class). he specifically said he dropped Tennessee because of how Tennessee fans talked about his perspective coach (Randy Sanders) on message boards. Said the talk was so bad he was concerned Sanders wouldn't be there so he eliminated UT from consideration.

this whole subject is just too logical to dismiss. It is hard for me to imagine any fan not believing that if a coaching staff is under fire and the future is uncertain that it wouldn't have an affect on recruits. I think we all can easily admit the future for CDD is "uncertain" at this point.
 
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